Pork Chop

My Feedback: (5)

[QUOTE=acdii;12420380] What you most likely will see is the TF ARF remaining, while the kits will go away, same with Great Planes. HH does not deal with kits, and most likely wont start now. They see where the markets are going, instant gratification, no one want to spend months or years building when they can pull it out of a box, glue a couple parts together and go fly.

I hope this isn't the case. It's kind of sad but on the flip side most of the plans are out there and there is still (at least for now) lots of builders out there still.

acdii

My hopes too, but when was the last time HH sold a "kit" that wasn't an ARF. Look at the ARF they sell now, most are foam, and only a few balsa ply, and those don't last long, one run, maybe too and discontinued. They all sell out, so you would think they would keep them in stock.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

The problem Horizon has is the bottom is starting to fall out of the ARF and Quad markets. You had all these guys get into them but they tired quickly, had no buy in to the hobby and went to something else. I think the all foam ARFs was an attempt to get costs down and drive more sales with disposable airplanes. They would buy containers sell them out and go to the next design. Again this fed the "no buy in to the hobby try it for a while and then go to something else" market. This puts them in a position of always looking for a new customer and looking for the next "in" thing, ARFs can no longer support their business. Horizon and the other companies who pushed ARFs killed their brand loyalty, customer base, by destroying the hobby and the local hobby shops that supported the hobbyist and in a lot of cases drove the entry of new people nto the hobby. When I was a kid I was one of those new hobbyists, it was a hobby shop that got me interested and the owner/operators of those shops that nurtured my interest. Without them I would have never found the hobby. Now the fallout is starting to hit home and they are becoming the victims of their earlier successes. Look at the number of bankruptcies by the mail order companies and suppliers. China a few years back started destroying factories to cut their manufacturing because they couldn't sustain the demand for their products.

donnyman

Isn't it fantastic how greed has a way of devouring the greedy? the hobby shops were the foundation and were really never truly supported by the suppliers, now they may have to pay the piper.

trainermaster80

My Feedback: (5)

Donny, my thoughts too.
but hey it was fun while it lasted . arf's drones, lack of young modelers have taken a toll too.
i took a few kits to a swap meet last year. my prices were 20% lower than Tower, ect vendors.
i was offered 1/2 of my price.
have also some o.s. max and Enya engines to sell, but it looks like i wont sell at 1/2 my price. so, i will look around and see if some model club needs stuff to introduce young modelers.
like i said it was fun while it laster
frankie the 89 year old modeler

acdii

Boy Ok you nailed it!

You know what I noticed most at Toledo? No youngsters, no Millenials. Mostly just older guys, most with gray or white hair. Some unable to walk. Where did I see the youngster millennials? Flying quads FPV.

Of course the usual overheard question with some of the really detailed planes, there was a Dauntless, BeaUtifully done too, What arf is that?

Pork Chop

My Feedback: (5)

Lots of good points being made here. The ARF's were one thing but the foamies and possibly the receivers allowing anyone to fly are a problem. I think we can all can remember (older modelers) how a kit didn't come out all that often and when they did they were around a while, now I can't even keep up. The market seams saturated and at the cost to development a model I'd be surprised if most have much of a return. I would think the Radian alone has carried more than one design that didn't do well.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Check out this post about kits!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/club...l#post12421070

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

It seems to me there are more designs coming available as short kits thru different laser cutting services all the time. Laser cutters have come down in price and a lot of services are popping up as side businesses. I think it is these small 1 and 2 people shops who will keep building alive. I'm waiting for a big supplier like Tower, Horizon, Hobby King to develop a cut on demand kit service like you see in book publishing. There are several on demand l publishers that now print when the order is placed. I suspect they may have to have a certain number of orders to make it profitable but I see it could work for kits. The order process could be fairly automated with subsets of parts like cowls, canopies, windows, hardware, wire, and pushrods all package separately. An order prints out listing the cut file name and wood sizes required along with subset part package numbers and plan number. Once the wood is cut an order puller drops the pieces in the appropriate size box and the kit is ready. The off the shelf technology exists and has been used by a whole array of businesses.

Telemaster Sales UK

I'm only a lad who turned 70 last month Frankie but you're right, after us the hobby is finished.

A few years ago a club colleague went to the British Model Flying Association's National Championships which are held over a weekend. On the Saturday evening there was a large swap meet and a man had bucket loads, yes bucket loads, of two stroke glow engines, all in sound condition, from 049s to 120s. He wanted £10 (just over $14US) for each motor. Take your pick. He hardly sold any. No demand for them. We all know why.

Mind you, I still enjoy the hobby, whether it's teaching beginners on a buddy box, wafting my BE2 around the sky or trying to fly pattern and there are advantages to the modern age for builders. For example if you wanted to build an Ilyushin IL2, a Sopwith Snipe or virtually any WW1 two seater aircraft, none of the big kit manufacturers are going to produce one for you. However, if you email the plan to a laser kit cutter, for a fee, you'll have your own uniqe kit delivered to your door step.

I am entering my kit-built "Russian" Baron in this year's Coupe Des Barons, modelling mayhem if ever there was! Scroll down to "Video Coupe 2017" and you'll see what I mean! http://saffiotipatrick.wixsite.com/vl38/les-barons

nhk750

I'm 53 and love building, but I do see why the ARF and foam is prevailing these days. We have busy lifestyles and not much free time compared to 20 years ago when we only had 5 channels on the tv and no internet and no mass produced foam planes. The only way to have a quality plane was to build a kit (or scratch build) or buy a limited selection of ARF's on the market. These days you can buy quality balsa ARF's for less $ than building. But, I still love to build and always have a project going as you can't beat the gratification of creating your own flying model.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Amen!

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Building keeps the old brain cells firing away and well exercised. Seems like I always have something on every build if not multiples. You have a screwed up or two, three and have to fix them or an instruction that is murky at best, or a total lack of instructions when plan or scratch build. All good metal exercise. Then when you fly your latest creation you get a good cardiac workout from the terror of flying a new unfamiliar airplane for the first time! I never bought that old lie you read in every article of the R/C magazines about how the new airplane flying like a dream on the maiden flight. I remember old Doc Mike Hawkins confessed every airplane design he ever published the maiden flight was always a adventure with moments of terror calling for adjustments/changes being mandatory before the next outing. He never blamed the materials or the equipment just the loose nut working the sticks and building the airplane. With a nasty honesty streak like that he would never had made it in politics!

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I'm thinking more of the build articles from bygone days. I don't generally read the ARF/RTF articles at all they just don't interest me. Building is my love and the flying afterwards is the frosting on the cake regardless of the outcome. To paraphrase JFK I choose to build and fly what I build not because its easy but because it is hard. The harder an airplane is to tame the more fun I'm having. Maybe I just got a screw loose?

GallopingGhostler

What is there to reading about gluing 2 wing halves together and gluing tail feathers into the fuselage, mounting landing gear, installing engine and radio gear? Then proudly announce, "I built it, look how she stunts!"

I think Telemaster hit the nail on the head. When our model plane involvement becomes discussion in a senior's home, the building and flying generations would have passed.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

In that case I'll pass on the senior's home !

JimO

My Feedback: (7)

Kit is complete, just like years past. There is something about taking a box of wood and make it come to life.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Yes it is! I make it my favorite pass time!

trainermaster80

My Feedback: (5)

0r how about you go to a contest and a guy sez, this here is my model built for me by ed jones, this here is my pilot jake hanson, give me the trophy.
Man, i did not meet modelers like that during my 89 years of living & 79 yrs of building & flying.
yes it was fun while it lasted
frankie the 89 year old modeler teenager. Trainermaster 80

acdii

Now that is one I will never understand. You have someone build you a plane, you pay them for it. OK, I can see that, you don't have the skills or shop, but want a nice plane, OK, but to have someone else fly the plane? That just kills me man.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I hope they tell the idiots"Learn to fly/build and we will discuss it. It should be in the rule book you have to either build fly or design your entry.

dirtdart

I just branched out, especially with the spike in the cost of balsa. Rumor I heard was those big wind turbines use balsa cores for their blades...rumor probably. So, I just make them myself.

When I look at the classifieds I see overly optimistic pricing, especially for a nitro engine. I am the only guy at my field still flying nitro. All have gone electric or gas.

The hobby will bounce back. I have no doubt. The rapid feedback guys will need to find a way to stay sane and keep from checking out. You are right though in the interim of mom and pop folks keeping it alive. I would love to start my own line of kits, but the start up costs are absurd for what you can expect for a return. Especially with 300 dollar 30cc ARF aerobatic planes, that are actually really well built and fly great. Hardware alone is a ton of cash.

Time will tell I suppose.

F4 Phantom blue angles

Hi,I only build kits,Thats the fun of it all. Back in the mid-late 1980's was about the peak of build up planes.You had so many choices to choose from.Now,there is only about 5-6 places to buy kits from. The biggest,as far as I know,is SIG. They have alot of kits for all applications to choose from. As far as exotic planes go,I know a few. Not only have kits went downhill, alot,if not all dealers seem to be selling out of all there inventory,and not replenishing it. The bottom line is,everything is going from anolog to digital. And everything is ARF. No one wants to get into this hobby from the ground up,the millennial's just want to go buy a plane or drone and go fly it. They probably don't even know the principles of flight. Also, The average price of a gallon of fuel is approx $40.00. Anyway,if you want to know of a few dealers,not listed anywhere,Let me know.