Red Baron Dave

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yea I have seen that Cessna bash as well... somewhere
Good to know about the weight not being an issue - agreed Im lazy - what engine do you have in it again, without re-reading the thread
Haven't build ANYTHING this summer, instead took the family on a month long road trip and just camped - I guess it will be a winter project

Cheers

doug2708

Foodstick,

I am looking forward to a flight report. Did you end up using the poulan 46cc?

Doug

Red Baron Dave

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lol, dont bet the bank on any flight reports any time soon - that is a HEAVY box of lumber!
I was asking what your engine was - the only gasser I have is a 35cc in a 1/3 Cub. I was looking into some of the new gassers from DLE maybe.
We have an engine 'nut' in our club that went that route and had a bunch of Poulan and Roybi converted engines, they all ran well but the process of stripping them down for weight was a pain in the arse and he sold them all. I think I will stay with ready built engines for RC

foodstick

This plane does have a Poulan 46cc in it, and I can tell you this..I am not sure anymore what the weight of it is....the upper mid teens for sure though..
It had MAJOR horsepower to weight on the first flight . I think it will go vertical for awhile with a running start on the level.. Heck I have a 1/4 Balsa USA Fokker D7 with a Poulan 46cc in it, and it weighs about 26 pounds and flies well.


I worked some more on it the last few days, I have it painted, painted the US Navy back on the new fuse section.Then shot a quick coat of clear over it.
Then I installed the tail wheel and lower tail support wires.
Lets see, I have the On/Off switch mounts drying now....

I haven't started the new battery mount area, or receiver mount. I also need another pushrod guide to stabilize the elevator and rudder pushrods.

I am glad I am moving it forward some, I just haven't had the building drive in awhile..I go through phases to be sure.

foodstick

Well, its back together and balanced, All it needs is the motor run up, and a good range check...

Red Baron Dave

My Feedback: (13)

WOW
that is the way it should have been from the start! - proportions all "look" correct
Job well done bud!

Safe 're-maiden'

foodstick

Thanks, I tried to make it look decent , now if it will fly that way

its got that big old bomb bay just waiting to drop some gi joe parachuters

the local club has a TRAINER night, lots of those little foam cubs, and a 40 size glow motor or two.. be fun to drop in with the Mother of all oversized trainers.....

Red Baron Dave

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maybe you should have a pirate flag flying from it as well with the 'monster'

foodstick

hahaha, Maybe I could drop a foam electric cub OUT of the bomb bay ! hahahaha

rcnats

My Feedback: (56)

Hey foodstick,

I just got a short kit and will be looking forward to your flight report. If all goes well I'll build the "strecthed" version too! I think I'll call mine the "pimped out BNT!"

rcnats

Red Baron Dave

My Feedback: (13)

even better!
OR
FLAMING plastic army men lol

foodstick

Well where do I start?

perfect day, nice winds. My buddy and I get out to the field early to fly the Nosen Trainer before the official student training starts..

Everything is perfect, the motor needs a slight tweek on the needle..and its time to go. We fire it up, and there is so little wind its pilots option on takeoff .. I throttle up..and the plane is sort of searching for a heading..the rudder isn't very effective as I speed up..finally I get it lined up along the runwaythe tail comes up, I try to build speed on the ground..it lifts without elevator due to the huge flat bottom wing. As it starts climbing the plane still feels loose and sloppy like it can't decide on a heading..Finally it seems to start responding to rudder inputs I climb out and get in the pattern. I flew for maybe 5 minutes, it hardly needed any trim. I started doing some rolls, a loop or two and it flew decent, not quite like a floaty trainer.. more like an over heavy 1/4 cub. I didn't get into any trouble this flight, but the elevator needed to be tamed down some.. the plane just had that feeling that you could get in trouble if you grabbed to much elevator..

I shoot a couple landing approachs, and it feels good, but a little hot...lined up for final...plenty of glide momentum. I just cleared the levy, when the motor died at low idle. That was no problem it came in nice. there was a slight crosswind and the plane was slipping a little so I put ina little rudder..leveled it with the ailerons, flared at just about the perfect height and she settled nice on the mains.. i stayed on the rudder as it rolled down the runway, and it started loosing any rudder control at a fairly high speed.. it just continued straight until the tail wheel touched, and then it would have turned..but the wingtip just touched the safety fence on the end of the flying area.

Well it was down and in one piece, there was hardly a blemish on the wingtip from the fence..it hardly touched it..

I sat down talked and enjoyed the flight, even though it wasn't perfect it hadn't crashed. I was still uneasy about flying it again..I just hate that feeling of waiting for the controls to get solid on a takeoff. especially with such a big plane.

I got the radio, added some expo to the elevator, and got that calmed down a bit.

We checked everything and we fired it up, made a high speed needle adjustment and taxied out to fly again.

I lined it up started into the power, it was pulling that same problem with locking into a heading..up it climbs..still not responding well to inputs. it sort of started yawing left I tried a little right rudder it doesn't respond, then it starts yawing right.. its moving forward at a good speed ... the nose is in the perfect attitude when climbing out.. the yaw to the right starts gaining momentum..no amount of rudder and aileron,seems to stop it ..just like test flight 2 it snaps in on a wingtip, and the nose... the wing took it pretty bad, the tip was crushed in about 6 inches, including the aileron. the spar on the right wing panels were broken in at least two places. the wing mount blocks ripped out. The fuse sort of split, some damage where the firewall was pushed in. etc.

I resisted the urge to trash it :P hahahha

but I am done I think, I truly think now it just needs more fin rudder, the extended tail helped but it just won't hold a heading at speeds that it needs to. I don't know if my round cowl is hurting airflow over the tail? or its still mainly a torque issue. I am pulling the hardware and moving on, I have a lot more planes with GOOD reputations I can spend my time on..

I will add it flew pretty well once in the air, rolls were nice..loops easy if not round (mine never are) It just needs more vertical tail. My buddy and I talked of putting a triangle of wood between the fin and the fuse..like they do on some planes.. I wish I had stopped at one flight and taken it home and made that modification now. I figured I should just make that second flight to get over the uncomfortable feeling it gave me on the first flight... Hind sight says I should have went with my first instincts.

I hope MY PROBLEMS don't stop anyone else from building or flying theirs. Mine did have a few built in issues, but I think I had eliminated most of them.

doug2708

Bummer...sorry to hear that.
I've started to work on mine again. I might just stick with the stock plane and maybe a .90 or a conversion I still have lying around here somewhere.

foodstick

You know I have been thinking about this the last day, I was mowing at my moms Farm and had lots of time to just mull it over in my head.... and it occurred to me.. the fin rudder hinge is raked way back.. I wonder if that is what makes the rudder seem mushy? Also since it is raked back so far the rudder once it is deflected out to the side would be acting like an elevator.. It would be literally trying to twist the plane (which is exactly the problem) because it would be similar to the setup on a beach bonanza V tail. large rudder deflections might be acting like pulling some up elevator, and then you start needing to push the elevator forward to compensate. then when releasing the rudder you need to pull the elevator back ... this makes sense because the plane felt like something crazy was going on with the tail control every flight. I think building the plane with a vertical fin rudder hinge line, and a bigger rudder is possibly the solution...

mine is not destroyed, but it is messed up.

last night I took it all apart, the fuse would not take to much work..surprisingly, the wing I wouldn't know unless I open it up , that fabric covering DOES NOT TEAR .. it just leaves you with a bag of parts...

rcnats

My Feedback: (56)

Oh man, sorry to hear about your flight. However I think you are right about the rudder hinge line. I just looked at the plans and you're right. I think that with a 90 2-stroke the length of the fuse "works". Stretch it out and change the rudeer may be all it needs! I plan on extending the fuse 10" and change the rudder to a more conventional one. I'll be using an SPE 40cc on it. I can place the engine on the same place as the plans show and it fits....don't have to move the firewall back (at least not yet! )

foodstick

Well I finally cut into the wing to see how bad it was.. There are a few broken spars, leading edge snapped a couple places, and trailing edge in several spots broke top and bottom, and the crushed wing tip and snapped aileron ...other than that.. it doesn't look so bad !


Other than being tired of rebuilding this thing it won't be that much work, thankfully none of the breaks were behind the fancy painted roundels

Here are the blood and guts of it...

That ceconite spreads the load pretty good when you drop about a 17 pound airplane on one wing tip, and then the nose ! I always laugh when a cloth plane breaks, and keeps all the parts inside, I had to slice itopen with a razor to see any wood broken internally.

rcnats

My Feedback: (56)

Wow that's some strong covering! Doesn't look THAT bad . What are the struts made from?. ...looks like they bent "just a little".

foodstick

the struts are aluminum tubing..BUT, I ran piano wire all the way from the mounts outboard on the wing..to the stub for the fuse.. I am not sure its possible to break them but the aluminum could get ugly.. I straightened the outer tubes sorta I think I put wooden end caps in the aluminum tube, and poured a small amount of Gorilla glue in the tubes to stop any rattling...

rltripacer

This is very cool..I need to go back and read some parts that I Ihad skipped over...Yes kinda like a cessna 185 the fin and rudder are very pronouced ..the servos in the aft. fuselage is a super idea...I got a set of plans yesterday after studying them -BIGGER-this is the perfect airframe for the 8 ft floats i built...

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

Boy, what a let down. It looked like a good flying design. That photo on the Bud Nosen box looks great. It makes the plane look like a tamed down Cessna 150. The photo looks like the plane has a contoured fuselage and good moments. The photos that I see on the net looks like a crappy box build with weird moments. I was thinking about building this plane but after reading these post it looks like I'd be better off enlarging a Kadet Mk II and contorting the fuselage away from the box style.

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

It's like this box photo promises this,

AmishWarlord

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But delivers this...

sebo

If you want that 150 why not buy Hostetler's C150? It is a nice build and flies great...I built one and am extremely happy with it. Have a kit cuttler cut the parts for you....unless you have the tools to do it yourself....I have another one in the box in my closet...
As for the trainer being a box build, aren't most of them box-like?
If you just want to bash around, the trainer ought to be great.....I have the Nosen Aeronca too.........flies like a trainer..

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

That would be an intresting comparison. To build a Kadet to the same size as the Hostetler C150 and see if there is a noticeable difference in the flight performance.

sebo

I would not expect the flying characteristics to be the same....the C150 isn't a trainer...but I'd bet that a large Kadet would fly extremely well.
An example of a trainer being built to larger scale is the Giant Telemaster...same characteristics as the smaller one...just not like a Cessna.