Roary m

My Feedback: (67)

MinnFlyer pegged it; the ship will knife edge from one end of the field to the other. You can do knife edge figure 8s with him, but I think the two stroke is the way to go with these guys. And while you're at it, slap a pipe on him and terrorize the electrics.

AJsToyz

I know its a little off topic but I was just wondering how one becomes an AmishWarloard??

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I agree with the others.

I have seen many people modify the shape of the US and I have never seen one that was an improvement - usually it's just the opposite.

Mods should be kept simple, Like Flaps and moving the retracts out one bay or sheeting the wings. Any changes to the actual lines of the plane just seem to detract from the flight characteristics.

Mustangman40

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That's whatI did with mine.
I see what everyone is saying, the US is good for a reason. Start changing it and the plane will change...

Lomcevak Duck

My Feedback: (14)

What is the purpose of fully sheeting the wing?

AmishWarlord

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AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

LOL,
Old my old 80's hacker name.

AJsToyz

Still trying to get a visual on this one! LOL Great name!

Andy

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

It's totally optional. You don't have to worry about keeping the US light, so if you prefer the look of a fully sheeted wing, go for it.

Tango Juliet

For me, the purpose of fully sheeting the wing was to be able to fully fiberglass the airplane, rather than using Mono or Ultra coat, and to paint it. I've since decided to use Liquid Sheeting instead, but it still requires a sheeted wing. The other benefit is that the airfoil is maintained throughout the wing and not just where the ribs are, although it's not that critical.

Zor

A fully sheeted wing has a more uniform airfoil as someone mentioned.

It avoids changes in airfoil shape when maneuvering. An example is an abrupt pull up (not rare) with a sudden increase in the angle of attack increasesthe sudden Gs and moves the covering changing the airfoil. How much depends on the covering tension. A wrinklingmaterial is never very thight and often is not even glued to the ribs or the spars. That is not obvious on the ground.

Most fliers would never notice it.

There are methods of covering that avoid these situations. Sheeting is only one of them.

Zor.

Mustangman40

My Feedback: (1)

TJ.
let me know how the LS works out, I been looking at this as well..

Alex7403

TJ,
I was thinking about fiber glassing the US for some time, my last US without glassing came to be 7.9 pounds ready for fuel.
Can you please measure the weight before, during, and after- I mean before glassing, after glassing and after painting.
this route of glassing painting and retracts is interesting I just dont want to build a warbird that flies like a brick out of an ultra sport.

Alex

Tango Juliet

Alex - I won't be fiberglassing it any longer. I'll be using a newer product and technique called Liquid Sheeting available at www.wowplanes.com. I think it was originally developed for another use and was adapted to use on foam airplanes to provide a smooth finish for painting. It has since been used by some as an alternative to fiberglassing. It's a two part resin that gets "painted" on, is self-leveling, and creates a hard, thin shell (similar to a candy coating ).

My US will probably be quite a bit heavier than stock, as I've done all the popular mods like the flaps and retracts (Spring Airs with tank), but I've also added lights and attempted to scale out the cockpit a little. The fully sheeted wing adds some weight also. Will it be too heavy? I don't think so. It won't have the unlimited vertical performance that so many crave, but that's not really my style anyway. If it flies like a portly warbird, then so much better for me. Eventually I want to build a large scale warbird and any experience flying a heavy sport plane will pay dividends.

Mustangman - I don't know if I'll weigh everything and keep track of it. There are some other threads discussing the Liquid Sheeting and from what I've gathered, the weight difference is marginal. To me, the application process appears simpler, and less messy, and that's what really sold me on trying it. It's said that fiberglassing doesn't really add strength, it's just a substrate for a smooth painted surface, and imparts some ding resistance. The Liquid Sheeting does all that also.

Zor

Tango Juliet ___and all readers,

This is becoming very interesting.

I always understood that fiberglassing involves the use of a light weight strong fiberglass cloth impregnated with a resin.

I felt that the cloth gives much additional strength to the structure of a model.

I now do not know what to conclude from the above statement.

Zor

Tango Juliet

Let me correct that statement. Fiberglass adds very little overall strength. Consider the weight of the cloth. In this case probably 0.5 oz cloth. Very light. Then consider the resin. Something like Z-Poxy Finishing Resin which isn't as thick as 45 minute epoxy. Then you squeegee off most of it, leaving a very thin layer. Just enough to impregnate the glass cloth. If you do it the older, traditional way you would also add a flow coat. The more modern method uses Polyester Cloth after the first coat which pulls up the wax layer and helps to fill the weave, eliminating the flow coat and a lot of sanding. When you compare the two, fiberglass versus liquid sheeting, the finished products are not that different.

All that being said... I must admit I have never actually done either one, but I have researched, read, and re-read a lot of information on both, and it's my conclusion, that they are not that much different for the finished product.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yes, while technically fiberglass adds strength, it is strength in an area that doesn't require it.

It's sort of like saying that if you cover the open windows of your house with fiberglass, the house will be stronger.

RoyR

TJ,
I don't think you will be disappointed with the performance. I thought mine seemed heavy with the retracts, two aileron servos, and the Big SuperTigre 90, but I don't think it affects the flying at all. It's a wonderful airplane to fly.

Not directed at you, but just in general: I am a sports flyer, and have built kits long before they made ARFs. My style is build and fly. So I don't weigh my airplanes, it wouldn't mean anything to me if I knew what they weighed anyway. If it was a few ounces heavier or lighter than someone elses I could care less as long as it gets off the ground and does what I want it to do in the air. We're talking about UltraSport It's a sports plane, not a 3d. It's designed to be fun. And remember, It's a KIT. It's not an ARF with every gram stripped away. It's a big heavy wood airplane. You can pick it up without hearing things crack inside. It's Already heavy. People should forget the technical side of worrying about "what if", and just build it to suit, go fly and enjoy.

Back at Tango Juliet. Also my opinion, building is part of the sport in sport flying. I've been following your thread on your build and it's very impressive. I can't wait to see it finished. It sounds like you're trying new things for you and that's always a lot of fun.
Fair warning though. I built my first US 40 a number of years back. Nothing as fancy as you are doing, but I took my time, added retracts, did a great job of covering, etc. And when I finished I was so proud of it I didn't want to fly it for fear of crashing my pretty cover job.
But I did get it in the air.

Alex7403

I raised the question about weight.
I’m considering putting retracts, fiber glassing, painting an Ultra Sport 60 to make it survive dings from transporting it.
I don’t see any ultra sport fiber glassed and painted to get an idea how much weight is added in this process.
One thing is to do it to a warbird which doesn’t fly that well to begin with and another thing to do it to a US 60 and make it 10 pounds instead of 8, in that case should I go for a bigger engine than 75AX?
Because if it will weight 10 pounds maybe its not worth the effort…

Alex

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

The 75AX will still be plenty

Tango Juliet

RoyR - Unfortunately I'm a slow builder and my workshop (spare room) isn't as big as I'd like, so getting things done becomes a chore. My current schedule is also a bit of a hindrence for me. I work seven days on out of town, and seven days off. It sounds nice, and it is, except that I also have to take care of all the other household chores like grocery shopping, house cleaning, laundry, and bill paying during those seven off. I feel like I could do more in the evenings during the week if I were home on a 5 & 2 schedule. My room-mate will be moving out sometime next month, then I'll have two rooms for building and storing airplanes and equipment . Hopefully with the extra space, I'll be able to get more done. Yeah right ! Like you, I enjoy building just as much as the flying, but I'm a better builder. I've never weighed any of my airplanes (with the exception of my Oly II glider) and I've never had one that wouldn't fly. I'll never be too afraid to fly any of my airplanes. If I were to never fly them, I may as well sell all my R/C stuff and strictly do plastic models. (It might be cheaper )

Alex7403 - Even if you fiberglass the US, you won't be adding two pounds of extra weight. If you do, you're doing it wrong! A fiberglass finish does not add that much weight. The reason most people don't do it, especially on the US, is that the open bays of the wing can't be done that way unless you fully sheet it. The other big(gest) reason is that it's much more difficult to do than a simple iron-on covering. Once it's fiberglassed it needs to be primed and painted... a lot of work. And like Roy said, "It's a Sport Plane", so why go through all the effort?

My reasons for doing it were because I was using this kit as a stepping stone to building large-scale competition quality airplanes in the future. There were many techniques I had never done or tried before that I would need to know before building a big warbird. The reason I chose the US 60 was because I knew from the experiences of others (MinnFlyer and RCKen) that it could handle the mods and the extra weight of detailing it, yet still be a great flying airframe that would handle much like a warbird. I changed my mind about doing the fiberglassing because someone mentioned the Liquid Sheeting and I was impressed enough by what I saw in videos and read in forums to give it a try. I thought I'd be ready to start that this week, but I needed to work out the hingeing on the ailerons and flaps, and fill any and all gaps before applying the liquid sheeting. I think that is the biggest difference between sport modeling and scale... all the little things that take so much time rather than just slapping it together. If you want inspiration as a builder, check out some of the build threads in the "Classic Pattern" forums. Some of those things are true works of art in craftsmanship.

RoyR

I think it's a good idea to use something like the Ultra Sport to try new ideas on. like the liquid sheeting. If you mess up, you're not out thousands of dollars and you still have an airplane that flies good.

BTW, TJ I understand your schedule thing. I'm retired, but when I worked I was on a 14 days on 14 off schedule. (I flew helicopters in the Gulf) People always said how great to have that much free time. Well, my 14 days at work were away from home in another state and believe me, there is a lot to keep you busy when you get home.

Tango Juliet

RoyR - PM sent.

GaryHarris

Well I have mine on the way. I guess I need a number.

Mustangman40

My Feedback: (1)

Welcome to the cult Gary...........