RE: Kadet Senior
 

G'day

I have never bothered to make the fine adjustment that Sig suggests in "Step 3". I really does not matter and does not affect flying performance. It just looks neater. I also leave out the little curved fillet at the front bottom of the vertical stabilizer - again, it is pretty but it does not really add anything to the flying. I leave it out as it is a pain to cover well. If I did put it in, I would not make it curved but straight as this would be easier to cover. I also leave the bottom of the engine bay open so oil can just drip out and it is easier to get at the engine mount. Again, it makes no difference to flying ability.

I know this is against my "build it by the plan" comment but these are very small changes and do not materially change the way the plane ends up or flies as they do not affect the aerodynamics of the plane enough to matter.

The building of the Kadet is not difficult. It is long the first time. These days I can build one in about two weeks if I really set my mind to it. The wings take about a day a side, the fuse about three days and the tail feathers about two days. At this point I have built an ARF and I cover the various bits. Then I assemble the bits and finally fit out and fly.

Interestingly, they all fly slightly differently. The best overall flier is the oldest as I think it is the second lightest with its light engine. The others are similar though the one with the film covered wings is the best glider. The Laser 70 powered one is best in the wind with its extra weight.

Hang in there - you will get there eventually. Just take your time. You have a whole winter to play with. Meanwhile we will be sweltering in 100 degree F plus heat and flying. It gets pretty hot where I live in summer.

One last comment on building accuracy and its affect on the flying of a Kadet. My Seniorita was one of the first models I built. I managed to build a twist into the wing that I could not get out. It still flew really well. It had to have about 1/4 inch rudder trim to correct the twist but other than that it flew like any of my other Kadets. So don't be too worried about absolute accuracy. These kits were designed to be built by beginners and they are very accommodating of slight inaccuracies.

And I always use rubber bands on Kadets. Simpler and more likely to survive "incidents". I usually use six.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Already decided that if he gets the senior we were going to leave out the fin fillet and bottom of the engine compartment. I like to be able to get into the compartment for any necessity that comes along, and for the draining as well. And that fillet is so small it really serves no point and hard to cover as you mentioned. We would also like to have a hatch in the front for reaching the fuel tank.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

I usually use more than six. One thing I noticed over the years, with a heavier motor, when you pull up at the bottom of a loop, the rubber bands will stretch, causing the plane to drop, then pitch up quite a bit. It took me a while to figure it out :)

I agree with the building accuracy not being so critical. It is an extremely forgiving plane. One thing you do need to do, with any plane, is to get the balance right. Both the CG but more importantly, side to side. With rudder control on a Kadet, if one side of the wing is heavier, it will be hard to correct flying. Just add weight to the heavy side. I forgot on one of mine, and had the right wing too heavey. With full left rudder, the best I could manage was a slow, right turn! Ended up OK, but I never forgot again.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

I flew mine 30 yeqars ago, 3 channel back then, they hadn't made the option for the ailerons and the dihedral was deeper. I loved it, and the next one that my buddy and I built with less dihedral and added ailerons. I actually flew it on a Thunder Tiger .28! NOT recommended, it was kind of doggy, but we wanted to see how small and engine the Senior would fly with. The smallest we ever ran on it was a .25, and that only got it airborne about half the time, and NO margin for error if a wind hit it!

Now, on to what I would recommend. Keep the nose wheel for now, it'll help while the learning process progresses. A .46 2-stroke glow should be plenty, or a Saito .62 four-stroke. That's got the smaller engine frame, like the .56 size, still light but it has some power. It's a sweet engine and if I could tell any newbie the one thing to do for themself when putting the plane together, it's use a four-stroke. The Saito .72 has more power but a lot more weight too, it's a bigger frame overall.

You'll love the Kadet Senior. It has a wing that's 8 inches wider, but the chord is massive! The square inches are HUGE, it's a slow-moving floater, and I would recommed it to any newbie. Build it slow and careful, use any glue you like, I recommend Tite-bond or any carpenter's glue for stuff you can put glue onto and walk away, then keep some CA and kicker around for when the parts need to stay together right away. Take your timer and enjoy the build, it's no way an expert build. Just don't do anything until you understand it completely. Any covering will do, they'll all work fine. That thing will haul anything.

Only one modification I can think of. Use bigger wheels, especially flying on grass fields. Have fun!

~ Jim ~

RE: Kadet Senior
 

G'day

Getting to the fuel tank in a Kadet is not a problem and I would not build a hatch because the structure of the front adds a lot of strength to the overall structure and a hatch will compromise this.

As I said before, I build in a floor that the tank can sit on and I fit the tank before I cover the front top of the fuse in so that I can get the position of the outlet hoses right. Once it is covered in, it is not difficult to slide the tank out the back as there is so much room. If you are worried about getting the tank out, you can add a piece of cloth tape to the tank to give you something to pull on. The other problem with hatches is that they leak. Fuel gets in through them. Lately I have taken to sealing the tank hatch on my LT-40 with a little silicone sealant. It is easy to cut away when you need to open the hatch. I also put some around the fuel tubing where it goes through the firewall. It sticks like mad to the fuel tube but not to the wood and so it is easy to remove later but it does keep the fuel out.

My trick for getting the tank back in is to push a couple of pieces of stiff plastic tube (about 1/8 inch) through the holes in the firewall back through the fuse and then thread the tank hoses on to the tubes and then pull the tubes back to guide the hoses back through the holes in the firewall as I push the tank back into place. I then back foam around the tank to hold it in place.

Another useful trick. When you fit the blind nuts to the firewall you will be very early in the building process. Later on you will be painting or sealing inside and outside the engine compartment and you may get paint or whatever into the threads. To prevent this, push some petroleum jelly into the threaded holes. This will keep the paint out and lubricate the threads ready for the bolts.

The bolts you use are usually 6-32 size. I usually replace the supplied screw driver slot type with allen headed (hex key) cap screws which Dubro and others sell. They are stronger and easier to tighten. Once you mount an engine mount to the firewall it will begin to bite into the wood and eventually the bolts will become loose. Over the first few flights you should test the tightness of the mount bolts and tighten them. If you use a thread locker they won't become loose but the mount will become loose as it bites into the wood so don't use thread locker initially. If you are going to use some, wait a while and let things settle.

Photo is some of my Kadet collection plus a Lanzo Bomber (old timer) and ARF Four Star 120.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Clear or color transparent monocoat side windows:

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Another thing. I do not like using glue for canopies or windows, they always get onto the windows and become sloppy. I like to use tiny screws to hold them in place. Is this possible with the senior?

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Page 18, step 89b: With the pre-tapered pieces on the top and bottom there is something I don't understand. With it being tapered faceup on the building board it is going to be straight on the opposide side. How easy is it to match the tapering once the part is off the board? How do you match the tapering on all the R-pieces for that matter once its off the board? Sorry for the all these ignorant questions but I want all these steps understood before I pick up either the Senior or the Mark II on the 4th at the LHS.

http://www.kavanrc.de/instructions/s...adetsenior.pdf

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Hi Steve,
The R pieces are lazer cut, just like the ribs, see picture. Again, these slight issues of top/bottom and right/left sides not being 100% perfect are so slight that they just do not come into play. In the case of the rudder, we are talking less than 1/32 of an inch difference between perfect and "completely wrong." It really is hard to build a Kadet so bad that it isn't a great flyer. And if you get stuck, you have enough people here that have prob ably built and flown over 1000 of them between us. So relax, you are in good hands!

RE: Kadet Senior
 

G'day. The windows are really easy. Just cut the clear material to fit (from behind the frame) and then use either canopy clue or small balsa strips to hold them in place. They are not difficult at all.

More difficult is getting the windscreen in place but I cut some small scraps of balsa to fit around the front wing locating dowl and sand to the shape of the window and then use small screws as you do to hold the window in place. Then I use some canopy glue round the edges to seal it.

The elevator is not a problem. Main thing is to work out which small piece is which. They are all pre-cut though you will have to tidy them up.

You almost always have to fly a Kadet with a small amount of down trim so when the elevator is finally fitted, it usually ends up so that the bottom surface lines up with the bottom surface of the horizontal stabilizer. The result of this is that any "non-symetrical" shape in the elevator is really a non-event. The ARF version is even cruder. The elevator is not tapered at all.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

OK, so when the windows are permanently attached how do you cover around the window frame without melting the window plastic?

RE: Kadet Senior
 

The glue to use is Formula 560 Canopy Glue. It dries clear, will bond to windshield material, and will cleanup with water. And if you some "ooze out", just clean it up with a wet paper towel. I got hungup when it came to gluing on the windshield. Researched all possible glues, was worried whatever I used would be inadequate. Then I ran into a guy I knew at the hobby shop and he pretty much laughed at me and said, buy Formula 560 Canopy Glue. You will have tape, maybe pin while the glues is drying.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...6433nismZZqzHa
After seeing this closeup of the windshield, and seeing that there is not enough wood for the screws to 'bite' into, I am thinking maybe just keep it a solid balsa cabin, then I wont have to worry about getting glue all over the plastics. Has anyone ever done this??? I would much prefer to have screws hold the windshield and windows on.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

I masked the windows and painted the front of the fuselage, the sheeted area.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Why don't you and your brother just build the LT-40? No window gluing. And there are a lot of laser cut parts.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

I knew eventually you all would be sick of my questions but I need to be sure this is what he really wants. And Sig is running out of kits and those two kits are all my LHS has in stock, so we are limited to those two. He specially ordered them for me to choose from so I cant go back on my word to him and all of a sudden tell him I dont want either, boy would he be [sm=angry_smile.gif][sm=punching.gif] if I was to do that now, after him making a special request to put them aside for me

RE: Kadet Senior
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sNGClZ5hiE
Fun with the Kadet Senior, Magnum .46, aileron conversion built ( by himself) and flown by my 15 year old.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Thank you for sharing that video. Beautiful plane, I love the way it simply glided down so smoothly for those landings. You and your son should be real proud.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Will not be asking any more questions. We will be picking up the Senior around the 4th and we will be very slow and cautious with the build (I mean we will have all winter to do it right) and of course we will be coming to RCU regarding the build if the need arises. I do thank you all.

Would still love to see photos of your Kadet Seniors so please post.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

If you never walked back into that shop, he would sell those kits to someone else. Why not explain your predicament and buy the one that really fits your needs? I have asked hobby shops to open kits so that I could inspect the contents and examine the build. Used to be a common practice as long as you're careful. Then put it back together and say I would consider it. I think the LT-40 fits you and your brothers needs better. Not too hard of a build, is almost as big as Senior, a great flyer and looks pretty good as well. Continue to do your research to come to a decision. If you have to go with a different kit altogether, then apologize to the hobby shop guy. He'll at least know those two kits are for sale to the next buyer. What's the new term? Man-up?

RE: Kadet Senior
 

So true, but he would prob also ban me, after going out of his way to hold them for me as well as the motors, radio, and covering, which was exasperating to ask him to do for me. He only did so because I am a very frequent customer of his to the point where he knows me by name.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

G'day In answer to your question about covering around windows -

I cover the fuse first then I cut out the window openings. Then I cut the window sheets and fit them in place and finally I glue them in place with Formula 560 Canopy Glue. I glue them from the inside and wipe any excess that leaks out off with a wet rag. Easy.

As for the windscreen, you can use very small screws to hold the windscreen into the pillars on each side of the fuse at the top. Just take your time and it will work. I also put one or two small screws into the top deck to hold the lower edge of the screen in place while the glue dries. The screws are only about 1/8 inch long and have hex key holes.

And in any case - you are building a trainer not a work of art. We have a saying here in Australia. "She'll be right." And Another one "No worries". They sort of mean, relax, just do it and it will work out fine. It is nice to build a model that has a perfect finish and is perfect in every way but really, for a trainer, what really matters is that it is strong, the covering does not fall off and the engine is reliable. A nice simple reliable radio is a great asset too. A perfect covering job or paint job really does not matter at all. It is nice to have but it really does not matter.

A friend of mine has recently built a Kadet Senior. He had built model boats before but this was his first plane. He built it completely from the plan and instructions not from a kit. Its covering is a bit rough ( he used his wife's iron) but the airframe is straight and the covering job is not falling off. The engine is a less than perfect Russian made MDS 47 or 48 (can't remember) which idles perfectly but does cough and splutter a bit in its midrange. I was given the doubtful honour of flying its test flight. It flew perfectly. It needed a couple of clicks of down trim. That was all. It has since had several uneventful flights - some in quite windy weather and is still in one piece. He built it as a tail dragger as he could not find the bits to make it a trike and as a result it is a little more difficult to take off but this is not a serious problem. He is very proud of his plane and everyone congratulates him on it. We may have to have his smile surgically removed. I suspect you will be in a similar situation.

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Threads like these are hard for me. So many variables not mentioned. So much left unstated.

What are your goals? What type of flying do you want to do? What kind of commitment in time and resources are you going to make.

These questions answers can be put in a matrix that will select your aircraft for you.

I am an instructor at our club field. I am not the best. I am not perfect. I have lots of experience though.

First learn on a four channel aircraft. I will not even bother with someone without four channel control. It is a waste of my time. Once you learn to fly, you can fly on your own any plane and number of channels you want.

Two years ago a guy came and wanted to learn to fly. I gave him my usual recommendations and my reasons behind them. He was unhappy and left to go defy gravity on his own with a slow stick in the park. He returns every once in a while with this litte foamy or that. He stays down in the far side by the trees with the minimal control guys defying gravity and having a good laugh. They are having a great time and lots of fun. After picking up nothing but bad habits he has returned with a plane that has full control and trainer performance. He has been unable to transition to four channel, speed and power. Will he ever learn to fly under control? I don't know, but, I know he wants to. I know if he had taken the time to learn controled flight first. He would spend more time with those guys and all the other flyers at the field. I know he feels left out. He was just too stuborn to listen.

This is not every case, but, it is common enough to mention. Also I do not recommend building your first plane. It will generally set you back in learning. You will be content to go home that day when the wind was just uncomfortable for you. Which will GREATLY slow your progress. Buy an ARF or used trainer get in the air quick and don,t worry about the plane.

I will stop here. After reading half of these sunshine posts I just thought some different views would be refreshing.

Good luck,
Ken

RE: Kadet Senior
 

Hobby shop owners don't ban customers that haven't done something horribly bad to them. To be honest, they can't afford to.

Most of the stuff you'd buy would be the same if you bought the Kadet Senior ARF. You'll still need an engine, glue, etc. So he'd still get the sale of those items to you. And as somebody else mentioned, those two kits would sell, as they're very popular trainer kits. Also (just a suggestion), if you bought the Kadet ARF, you'd still probably take most of the winter assembling it and getting it right, although you'd have the assurance that the first one would be a success. Granted, you have a long winter (I grew up just down the hill from you in New Lebanon & Chatham.) But you could also buy the Senior kit, maybe later in the winter if it doesn't sell to somebody else...and build a second Senior during the balance of the winter and next winter. These Seniors are like treasures to new RCers, having a spare is a good thing.

I never thought I'd see the day when an experienced instructor recommended that a newbie DID NOT build their first plane. Building your first plane was always recommended, so that you'd have the nuts and bolts of how an airplane functions, how it's built. I'm going to assume that this recommendation is because he believes that you're less invested in an ARF. To a newbie, I doubt the difference would even be noticeable. That urge to fly it is the same. With the quality of today's ARFs, I do believe that there is less chance that something could be done wrong. Also, that 2-piece ARF wing joined by tubes is a real space-saver and makes it easy to carry around and store. So, in this case I still agree with him...though for different reasons. Build the ARF. The likelihood you'll stay in the hobby is greater, and that means that the hobby shop guy gets to continue to sell you stuff down the road when you stay flying.

If you do go the kit route, remember the wax paper over the plans. Get some nice flat ceiling tiles, preferably new ones from a broken package somewhere...and lots of T-pins, not the big, fat ones; you want thinner, smaller pins. If you have multiple tiles (and you will with this big bird), glue the pair together first, you want the building board to be one solid piece. Remember wax paper under that seam too, you don't want to glue the tiles to the table!

Have you talked to the local clubs about getting any help with building and training? Being from the NY side, I know the clubs toward Albany and such, but I could probably find somebody for you on the MA side.

One last note. Do what you have to do ... for you. Don't base how you get into the hobby on how some guy in a hobby shop might react. The hobby shop guy should understand, and work with you. If not, virtually anything he sells you is available from a doazen places out there... Tower, or even direct from SIG, etc. There's no tax, and the shipping is often free, and they're very quick.. He's always up against that, every day, and the reason I'm telling you about it is so you know he has good reasons to continue working with you.

~ Jim ~

RE: Kadet Senior
 

I know there are two schools of thought on this one. I too have instructed for 25 years. I like teaching with 3 channels, and often even 2, with an 049 with no throttle. It's just like learning to fly a full size plane. You don't start someone out with a complex aircraft with twin engines, retracts, variable pitch props, etc... I always hook the rudder up to channel 1 (aileron channel) on a 2 or 3 channel. Then when someone transfers to ailerons, all they have to learn is to taxi with the left stick, everything else is the same as they learned on. But to start it's much easier to just worry about up, down, left, right and staying orriented and away from Charlie Brown's kite-eating-tree, it likes planes too.

I also taught myself to fly on 2 and 3 channel airplanes (not recomended), but the only bad habits I picked up, according to my wife, is buying too many planes, spending too much time in the garage and up at the field, and breaking in motors right in the middle of "Housewives of (insert favorite town here)":D