kit cutting 101
 

Photos first.;)

RE: kit cutting 101
 

That'a over!!

RE: kit cutting 101
 

How do you get the paper to come off the part before you start to build? Last time I tried to do this, the spray rubber cement (contact cement) I used had really held the paper on the part, I actually broke some small parts trying to remove the paper.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I keep getting PMs and emails asking how to cut a kit when I'm building from plans. It's very basic and easy. In this case I went to my wood working club to do my cutting and sanding. I used a band saw this time because the kit I'm cutting has no center cut outs or holes so no scroll saw needed. I usually just use a scroll saw.
First is to buy your plans. Builders plans have all the parts in profile so you just cut out the parts, I make a copy for use and save the originals as templates. I take my time and lay out the plans on the floor with a tape measure and figure out the wood required, I always order more then needed so I have wood on hand in my shop.
After I get the wood I take the templates and use a spray mount to glue the templates to the wood. The ribs require two sets so after I had them glued I glued another sheet of wood behind the main sheets. Really easy with spray mount. At the shop I just cut everything close to the outside lines. I was asked about cutting the notches. I just cut the lines first then come in with the saw about a 1/32 at a time to the inside line and slide the wood over a little on the saw blade, the pieces just pop out. I do that until the slot is cut. A little sanding is required later in the build. I use a stick of the correct size with some sand paper glued to the bottom. When everything is cut out I go to the sander and sand everything to the inside of the lines.
THe shop closed so I didn't have time to sand today but I have the complete kit cut. Total time, 1 houre and 40 minutes. I figure another half hour of sanding.
Total cost for an 80 inch Sukhoi kit, about $100.00 for the wood and about $20.00 for the plans.
Or you can go to a kit cutter. I got my wood from National. Only problem I had was the 1/2 inch X 3 inch balsa was warped. I waas able to clamp it and glue the two pieces together to get the wood size I needed for the four cowl rings.
Tomorrow I will finish sanding then start building. I'm sure no one needs photos of a sander.
Kit cutting is very basic and easy to do. I got into the groove and just had at it.
Gene

RE: kit cutting 101
 

No problem with the spray mount. That dumbass married to my wife used contact cement on the last one. I got it off with a heat gun. Pulled up an end, held the paper with some needle nose and let the weight of the wood do the peeling for me.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

In response to post #3 and #5 above. The only plane that I built from plans had the same paper removal issue. It fact, the paper would not come off. I found it to be somewhat unique to look down the inside of the fuse and see all the paper still attached to the fomers/bulkhead. No one else at the field had a plane lilke that:D:D

RE: kit cutting 101
 

OK, I will have to take some photos of paper removal. Sometimes just using a paper towel with alcohol on it will remove it. The spray mount just doesn't give me a lot of trouble.
I SAY THAT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Iuse 3M 77 spray paper only let dry then stick to wood if it does stick laquer thinner will take it off will also take off contact cement

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Great thread GB. What is "spray mount" and where do you get it? All the wood totaled $100?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

RE: kit cutting 101
 

What's a spray mount?

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Ditto!



Great thread idea Gene! I look forward to seeing the build, too!!!!

Brian

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I used a product called DURO All Purpose Adhesive. I got it at Lowe's of maybe another hardware store?? You can get the same thing at any photo store, Michale's on and on and on. It's just a spray glue. I have had this can in my shop for a few years and still have about 1/4 left. Hard to say how many planes I have used with this one can, it seems to last forever.I did have to clean the tip twice today to get it going. I used a little acetone to soak it in then used a T-pin to clean it out. I finally left some acetone in the tips stem and got it going again. Most any of these glues come off with heat. Tomorrow i will go do the finish sanding then come home and remove the paper. If the parer is a problem just use a sharpie fine tip to trace the parts out. It's just glue, don't over think it. You can use anything you like to hold the templates down longe enough to cut and sand. White paste?? Spit?? As my first instructor tole me, it's your plane, you can do what you want.
I'm not doing a build thread. I make too many mods and do a lot of different things, I would really screw up a lot of people that have never done a plans build. This will be about a 3 month build. I may post up a photo or two as I go along if I do something really cool or different.
I am going to glass this plane and paint with Latex. I may do a glassing thread to teach how to use Deft Sanding lacquer and how to get a no seam finish?
Our weather is finally changing, going to be around 90 this weekend. When it warms up I also do a lot of flying during the week and a lot less building.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I like this kit cutting 101 post.

Maybe I didn't catch it, but do you pull the paper off the template and use that as your former? I always just keep the template and cut my formers from there, because if I need another piece, I just get the template out, trace it on the wood, and cut out the new piece.

Jason

RE: kit cutting 101
 

3M 77 here also. One thing I've found is that if you stick the paper to the wood, cut it, sand to the line, and remove the paper in less than two days, the sicking isn't much of a problem. You leave it on for a couple weeks and then it's a different story.

I just finished repairing a Quicke 500 wing that I whacked about four years back. I needed three ribs for parts for the crunched ones soit's make a copy and do the above. Only I didn't want to screw with unclogging the nozzle in the can of 77, so I went down to Office Max an got a glue stick of the Elmer'sPositionable Picture and Poster stick. My first piece didn't hold very well but after finding one swipe wasn't enough, four or five is much better, it worked very well. Stood up to the band saw and everything. You have to burnish it down on the wood. It wouldn't be any good for a full build, but for a couple small parts like I needed, It worked well.. It will probably be a shriveled up mess the next time I need it while the cans of spray, as Gene said, seem to last forever.

Don

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I like my idea of paste, when I get hungry I have something to eat.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

The paper is the template. If you only have one piece to cut, you can pull the paper off and use the balsa wood part for your former. If you have multiple pieces to cut you need to stack and pin several pieces of balsa wood under the paper template piece and "stack" cut them so they are all identical. When you finish cutting the stack you can then take the pins out and peel the template off and it will leave you with all identical pieces.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I have been building kits and scratch built for years and I have used the old method of transferring the plans to the wood.

1) Make another copy of the plans. You can use Kinkos or whatever store you want. If possible try to find a printer that is NOT ink jet.

2) Using the copied plans, cut out the pieces that you want to transfer to the wood. Make sure you overcut the drawing of the part.

3) Lay the copied plan part upside down on the wood you want to use

4) Spray the back of the copied plan with Zip-Kicker till its moist

5) Using your monocoat heating iron, set on high, rub the iron over the back of the copied plans pushing mildly( You will have to experiment to find the correct amount of pressure depending on the type of copier you used)

6) When the zip kicker has evaporated, lift the plans off of the wood and you will see a direct transfer of the plan to the wood. What is happening is that the zip kicker releases some of the ink from the copied plans and then the iron transfers this "extra ink" to the wood.


This method has worked great for me for years. You do spend some money on Zip Kicker, but it is easy and fast

Good Luck

RE: kit cutting 101
 

This is just supposed to be a basic 101 thread. I have a ton of ways to do a plans build but this is the simplest way to do it. I have used the pattern wheel you can buy at fabric stores that will allow you to transfer the printed surface right onto the wood. Alcohol and acetone to transfer the ink to the wood, there are a number of ways to get the job done. People think building from kits and plans costs a bunch more then just buying an ARF. Depending on how you cut and build your kit that can be true, more often then not it is.
I have always had Kinko's make me up at least one extra set of plans, one set to build over and cut up. Kinko's charges buy the sq. in. or sq.ft. and it's now cheaper to just buy two sets of plans in most cases. By doing it the way I'm showing is the cheap and easy way. Pretty much everyone on RCU has a computer and printer so just cutting your parts and making a copy is the cheap way to do it. I use parchment paper or wax paper over my plans in the build, others will use the clear plastic drop cloths. Building over your plans shouldn't harm them, by having the original templates and plans makes it so you can now build another plane or trade plans with others. Making building cost effective is one of my main goals. I haven't mentioned gang cutting ribs or how to enlarge or reduce the plans size. There are a lot of tricks builders will develope over time. If your a builder your a thinker and things will come to you on your own.
Just keep it simple for now.
Today I will do my finish sanding then head on over to the local wood supply to buy myself a nice piece of Spruce. I will be cutting all my own hard wood stringers. I will require a lot of 1/4 sq. and 1/4 X 1/8 and 3/8 X 3/8. I could have bought all this wood from National, usually bass wood. Because I belong to a wood workers club, { I live in a Sun City home, some call it the old folks home} I have some of the best wood working tools known to man, I can do these things. Other people will have to just buy your cut wood from your wood supply when you order it.
Figuring out what wood you require is for me the hardest part of the build. The not fun part. It isn't hard but it requires thinking and thinking hurts my head. Cutting my own wood is a joy for me, almost no thought except remembering to keep my fingers out of the saw.
Keep it smple!!!!!!!! Don't hurt yourself with too much thinking!!!;)

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Here is the method I have used for years for attaching and then seperating paper from the wood. Use 3M 77 spray on the back of the paper to adhere it to the wood. To remove the paper saturate it with lighter fluid. It does not matter how long the paper has been in place the fluid makes it easy to remove. The fluid evaporates quickly from the wood so the wood does not get heavy from the fluid. The fluid also can be used with a paper towel to clean excess glue from the surface of the wood should you need to.

This also works well for cutting multiple parts. If you have a constant chord wing and have several ribs that are all the same glue multiple sheets of balsa together with 3M 77. Glue the paper pattern to the stack of balsa. Cut and sand all of the ribs. When you have completed the cutting and sanding apply lighter fluid to the end of the stack of ribs. The fluid will break down the glue and the ribs will easily seperate from each other.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Ihave used a "glue stick" before with decent luck. Irub it on the back of the paper then stick it on the wood. It's basically smells like the paste from elementary school only thicker and in a tube. It actually doesn't stick very well which is frustrating but it is easy to remove. I generally just do small jobs here and there. Spray mount adhesive is probably easier on a big job like this.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I read thru this and was impressed to say the least. I am new to RC Aircraft, but not to 3M 77, good stuff but can be messy. Glue sticks too work the same way, again messy. Try this the next time, Hobby Lobby sells a glue called Best-Test white rubber paper cement; brush onto the pattern, cut out the part, peel the pattern off, and using your thumbs, rub the cement and it will simply ball up and off the wood, no mess no fuss. I am also a card modeler and use this alot for the very same thing you are doing, making parts from paper patterns. Oh yea, no other fluids need using to get off the glue, this is a big plus of using this type glue, as a matter of fact, any ole rubber cement will work the same way.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ades_smile.gif

RE: kit cutting 101
 

WOODYA LOOKIE THAR JETHRO, A FAR REALLY MODULEM ARRPLAIN KITE!!!!!!!!!!! Finished!!! I went and bought some wood for stringers today then headed over to the wood shop. It took about 10 or 15 minutes to do the finish sanding. So, here you are. A complete kit for a 80 inch Sukhoi, about two hours work and a total cost for the kit is about $125.00. I waited for a table saw to open up then got on a stringer cutting roll, I have a big pile of stringers on hand for the next 10 builds. Now to start slinging glue.
PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE RIGHT SIDE OF MY BUILDING BOARD!!!! You guys are really over thinking this glue thing. Every template peeled right off and they can all be used again. If I felt one sticking a little I used my heat gun to loosen it up. The heat gun is good for removing epoxy and contact cement too. I used the same glue to glue another sheet of 3/32 balsa behind the ribs. I just heated the wood up a bit and the sheets/two ribs peeled apart.
Keep in mind how lazy I am, if there is anything I can do to make a build easier I will do it. I'm not going to use anything that would involve work. Don't over think your project.
Now when someone asks, WHERE HAVE ALL THE KITS GONE?? You know where they are. Just order the plans to a plane you like and run with it. Anyone who has built a kit can build from MAN plans if they are labled LD2. LD3 isn't too hard either, just takes more of that thinking and that really harmful to your health.
DON'T OVER THINK THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finished!! Kit cutting 101!!!!!!!! Now to start slathering some glue!!!!:D
Gene

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I to use the Duro !! I spray only the wood with it & as lite as possible !! if its from a very old can, the plan/template will almost curle off the wood, just after you get finnished cutting it !! If I want the plan to stay I spray both the wood & the plans !! I've scratched a Meister P-47 & a Meister F4u with just about one can !! and yes sometimes you just have to leave a little of the plans in your bird !! But the small pics Jim Meister put on his plans of different schemes of P-47's look pretty cool in my fuse !! Meister FW-190 next !!

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I'm not a warbird flyer but I sure wouldlike to build a jug just once. Nice plane!!

RE: kit cutting 101
 

So there is a difference between Builders plans and the plans that comes with a kit? This is good to know. I really want to try this but when it comes to figuring out what wood is needed I have not a clue..lol

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Another glue stick user here. Put it on, cut the piece, peel it off, spread more glue on, use it again. I just cut two fuse sides and two sets of doublers all from one paper pattern used this way, first for the two sides, then cut up some and used twice more for the doublers. If you leave the paper on the wood too long it will become hard to peel off, though.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Nicely done Gene. Very helpful, as usual. As it happens, I just finished doing two copies of an old Tri-R models Mooney 201, one for me and one for a friend. Copying a kit or building from plans is the way to go. And as you said, Don't overthink this stuff, it's pretty simple.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I spent a bit of time going over things yesterday, just fitting parts to the wing before I started gluing. I knew from the last time I built this plane there were some mistakes, like parts not fitting. I couldn't remember what the mistakes were but I found them right away. Then I couldn't remember what I did to correct them. If you line up these ribs to the TE spars it puts your ribs about a 1/2 inch away from the LE and LE spars?? Now I can't remember what I did to fix this problem?? Way too much thinking. Today was 90 degrees and no wind so I went out to the field for some thinking, no reason to allow the blood flowing out my ears to stain my shop floor. I guess I was having too much fun flying and shooting the breeze because nothing really came to me. I sort of forgot to do any thinking!!
When I got home I walked to my shop and SHAZAM!!!!!!!!!! If I moved the ribs to the LE everything fit excapt at the TE. The ribs glue to a sheet and the spar. If I go to the front first I can just move the sheet and TE spars forward and everything fits!! Just makes the wing a little narrower then shown on the plans!!
All plans have errors drawn into them. I go over everything a few times looking for those errors. They are usually found in the wing ribs. Now is the time to make the fix, not after the glue dries.
Not always so simple, if it was, everyone would be building from plans.
Find the mistakes!! If I ever find a set of plans without a mistake they will be the first.;)

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Gray Beard - When you are sanding the parts to shape, shouldn't you sand just to the outside line? That's what I've always done. If you sand to the inside of the pattern line, wouldn't you be making the part on the line side? If the line is say 1/16" all the way around, when you're done sanding, wouldn't the part be 1/8" smaller overall?

FB

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Gene,

I appreciate the keep it simple (and cheap!) approach.

If you get a chance to take a picture of the can of glue you used - that would help with the visual when I (we) are at the store looking for the right stuff. I hate buying the wrong thing and then having another $5.00 can of crap that does not work for my needs.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Between "real" jobs, once a long time ago, I worked briefly in a factory that produced men's suits. We used a spray on glue to hold patterns on the stacks of material when we cut pant and jacket parts. What was nice about the glue was that it had a very low tack and it didn't leave any residue on the material. The patterns peeled off easily and were able to be used again without adding more glue. If I could remember exactly what we used and could find it, it would be perfect for cutting airplane parts. Anybody ever heard of this stuff? I think it actually said something about "pattern glue" on the can, but I don't recall for sure as this was nearly twenty years ago.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Many times, the plans that come with a kit do not have all the parts profiled in a way that makes them easy to cut out.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Heree you are Rick, I was going to be a smart ass and take a couple of photos of that stuff you mentioned and tell you it never happens to me. I have so much wrong stuff in my shop but over time it does seem to get used for something.
OK, the lines, that is an age old question and I still don't have the correct answer. If you look at your plans you can see the ink pen lines get fat and thin, usuall on the outside due to the inkers hand pressure. I have tried sanding to the inside and outside of the line and what I discovered was it made no difference as long as you sanded everything the same way. If your off your only off the lines thickness. Your choice, just do them all the same.
Dre, we have been over thnking this silly glue thing to death. One of the problems is keeping the templates attached to the wood during cutting and sanding. If it lifts when you are cutting your kit?? OOPS!!! It happens. I have used contact cement, that's when I had a real problem, it sticks really well. The covering heat gun will remove pretty much any glue and contact cement and heat posed no problem, just more work. This is supposed to be fun and not work. This Duro just works but most any spray mount glue will too.
I think I stated these are builders plans. Very few kit plans ever showed the parts in profile. You buy builders plans from model aviation {AMA} plans service, MAN { model airplane news} plans service, RCM {remote control models} plans service and a host of others. There are people that do nothing else but design and sell plans for planes. Every part needed to build the plane is shown in profile on builders plans.
I save all the kit plans after a build but that's just in case of an OOPS and I need to make repairs. I have been up on a soap box preaching to folks to make templates of every kit they buy. You can build a complete plane with them or just do repairs.
OK, enough about glue. Use what you like, it isn't a big deal. I just happen to have this Duro from something I made for my grand kids. I probably bought it at Michale's when I bought the silver glitter. I tried it on templates and it worked. It isn't going to kill your build if you leave the templates on the wood. Over time I'm sure they will dry up and fall off on there own. Then you just figure out how to get them out of the fuse or do what I would do, ignore them. I don't sweat the small stuff.
Gene
NO MORE SILLY GLUE POSTS!!:eek:

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Thanks guys. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

RE: kit cutting 101
 

So far it's just a lazy build, not in any hurry. Did some sanding yesterday and I started to epoxy the tail feathers on. Just put the Hor Stab on a while ago. Sheeting the fuse was a kick. A bit of thick CA and a squirt bottle of water. Last one I built took 6 weeks, so far lazyass has spent 3 months so far. Other then the 2 ounce bottle of the thick CA nothing else has been spent on my kit. The wing took a lot longer then the fuse. with glassing and painting I figure I will be flying it before the summer is over.

RE: kit cutting 101
 

I don't glue anything.

I just cut the plans or trace a template. I pin all the paper on wood then hit the thing with a can of colored spray paint.

Paper acts like a taped edge. Been doing it this way forever. Well almost.

Sometimes I'll trace a template with a fine tip pen. I do this with a kit bash because I only need a few parts.

Spray painting the paper template while pinned to the wood, works for me. :D

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Gluing templates is a long past subject, it sort of turned into a poop question. The thread was just to show how easy it is to cut your own kit and people fixated on glue?? It just doesn't mater as long as the parts get cut.
I noticed you do graphics, how well do they stick to paint??

RE: kit cutting 101
 

Vinyl material, which is used for graphics and lettering, is applied to painted surfaces all the time.

Painted cars, trucks, boats, trailers even window glass!

Vinyl is also applied to gel-coat finishes.

I use the same vinyl for model graphics. No secrete about that!

Just visit my RCU Gallery. There's plenty of models that sport my graphics. All applied by the builder.

Such talent they have!

RE: kit cutting 101
 

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS">charles, do you have a website? i've sent pics to a couple of places, and never received any responses. i'm quite displeased with the customer service. perhaps i couple PM you a couple of photos of what i need with deminsions and the overall of the plane scheme, and we could chit-chat about it?</span>

RE: kit cutting 101
 

4 mounths later the plane is built. Last one I built took 6 weeks but that was then and this is now. I just started the glassing process today but someone wanted to know the weight after glassing so I hung it on a scale. Just the plane, no gear or anything in it came in right at 6 pounds. When I finish the glassing and before paint I will weigh it again to see how much weight the glassing adds. An 80 inch plane at 6 pounds isn't bad, lighter then most ARFs and it's fully sheeted, has real glue and epoxy not to mention it is all top grade wood. Keep in mind I also had to make mods and use aircraft ply so it would hold up to the Brison 2.4 gas engine. For a glow four stroke it could have been even lighter. How easy is this. A big plane for about $100.00. Covering would be fast and easy, I could have it in the air in a week.