Kit talk...
 

Hey guys,

I'm new to the forums but not new to the hobby. I am interested in hearing what people like and dislike most about model aircraft kits.
I'd like to know what makes you choose to build from kits over buying ARFs. Also, what about kit building pushes people towards just buying an ARF?

Personally, I think the process of building an aircraft yourself feels good, especially when it comes out straight and true. At the same time, there's an element of frustration in the fact that building it yourself means you may make mistakes. I know making sure everything is lined up perfectly is not the simplest of tasks. Additionally, the process itself can be time consuming, which I know to some might be a nice way to enjoy some leisure time.

Thoughts?
<br type="_moz" />

RE: Kit talk...
 

The way I see it; Flying is a Sport and Building is a Hobby

If you don't LIKE to build, or you live in an area where you can fly year-round, then there is no point in frustrating yourself with building.

On the other hand, if you ENJOY building and/or woodworking - especially if you live in a cold climate where you have several months of non-flying weather, then it give you something to do to keep from getting cabin fever.

Then there are people who enjoy building so much that they would rather build than fly, while others have no interest in building but really enjoy stamp collecting.

So it's really all up to the individual.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I have never looked at the hobby at any point as a sport, I think of it all as one big hobby. I enjoy the do it yourself part of any hobby. When shooting I liked to load my own shells and did my own gun smithing. When I was into cars I did all my own work from engine building to painting. My off road cars I have even designed my own frames. I just like the hands on part of any of my hobbies.
Most the people I fly with don't build, pretty much none of them. Makes no difference if it's lack of skill, lack of space or any other reason, they enjoy there ARFs. It's just a choice thing and I choose to build my own.
When I'm out flying I'm not having any more or less fun then the other guys, I'm just more into the complete part of the hobby. I just don't like having someone else do something that I can do myself.
It's a me thing. I can fly all year long too and have no winter build season. I end up doing most of my building during the summer when it stay's light longer. Just choice.

RE: Kit talk...
 

Like MinnFlyer says I only build in the winter keeps from getting cabin fever.

RE: Kit talk...
 

When I lived in N.E, Ohio, I would build more in the winter than in the summer, but I flew & built all year round. Now I live in N.Carolina & fly more in the spring & fall, (due to heat) but still build all year long. I am probably 50/50 in loving the building just as much as the flying. In all 32 years, I have never done an A.R.F & have really only considered it only once. Kits, or scratch building has been the only way. There have been a few swap-shop type buys through out the years, but those are not true arfs in my book.

RE: Kit talk...
 

For those that like the building aspect, do you prefer having to lay down blueprints, cut pieces, and measure lengths or are the kits that are pre-cut and easy to assembly preferrable? I realize they may take away some of the "challenge" and so the hardcore builders probably would rather do most of that work themselves. There are some kits out there that are like puzzles that you just need to assemble - no cutting. I think it's cool - but it does take away from the "this is my own plane" factor knowing everyone else with that kit had the same pieces and just assembled them.

RE: Kit talk...
 

Kits are fun,, easy and fast,,, Nothing more satisfying than having a one of a kind, scratch built from 3-views, plane though.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I do both. I have found some really good arfs that fly well and get in the air quick. I also try to built one kit each year; get great satisfaction when someone comments on the good looking plane. I try and find kits of not so common planes.  I am tried of seeing the same stuff at the field.  I am currently building a 1/3 scale Sig Spacewalker and will do a vintage pattern plane next.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I'm with MinnFlyer; for me, flying is a sport, but the challenge of building is the real hobby. The more of my ideas I put into a model, the greater the satisfaction. Assembling an ARF is OK, building a pre-cut model kit is better, building from plans is better yet, and designing and building a model is best. Flying my newest one-off creation is my greatest satisfaction. Even though I live in So-Cal, flying gets a little boring at times, designing and building is a much welcomed change.

RE: Kit talk...
 

Taking a simple proven kit , and KITBASHING it is I think a really great route to go.. if you don't get crazy with it , its will look different but still fly well... the four stat kits and planes like the Ultra Sport are great for this kind if kit action !

RE: Kit talk...
 

So far I haven't seen a kit with everything pre Cut?? I have built laser cut and die cut but othere then being cleaner needed less snding I don't see a lot of differece between them.

RE: Kit talk...
 

Hi everyone ___Hobbyists, Sporters(?)and readers.

The question of whether our acivities with model aircrafts as being a hobby or a sport seem to come up regularly.

It seems quite obvious to me that if an individual design, build from scratch (another debated word) or from a kit involvng many hoursof leisure times then this individual has a hobby and may be referred to as a modeler of aircraft.

If an individual only buys manufactured aircrafts available ready to put together and fly, I thenconsider him / her an assembler.and pursuinga different hobby. To me he/she is not a modeler but can be considered the hobby of assembling things.

If an individual only buys ready to fly models then what is he/she ? To that person the item is a toy to play with.
We all have toys of one kind or another to play with. I do not consider that having a hobby. For a leisure time activity to be a hobby it has to have more than a superficial interest. It has to involve research and seeking technical or scientific knowledge ormanual dexterity in fabrication, not only in usage.

Well ___you have myoutlook and you have no reason to care. I do not care either what reference we give to the varied type of people using and flying model aircrafts.

Whatever pleases the individual and whatever way he/she can spend his/her money is fine. There is a whole industry out there to satisfy everyone.

Cheers,

Zor

RE: Kit talk...
 

Gray Beard,

I wastalking about the laser-cut kits with "interlocking" pieces. It just requires putting them together like a puzzle and applying some glue. Not as mundane as assembling an ARF but not as creative and open-ended as cutting out kit-parts yourself.<br type="_moz" />

RE: Kit talk...
 

I build kits and scratch build as a hobby and a way to leave life and it's trouble and allow me to revel in my own world for a time. I love to fly but love building more. Good Luck, Dave

RE: Kit talk...
 

Wow, you make it sound so easy.
I have built several kits, laser cut, die cut, and it is a lot more complicated than putting together a puzzle. I doubt you would ever have to sand a puzzle to contour edges or make sure it balances within 1/4 of an inch on center of gravity. Most kits need some modifications along the way that only a "modeler" would understand.
Obviously scratch building is the ultimate but don't sell short a person who builds from kits.

The Pamster
AMA 202345

RE: Kit talk...
 

My bad! haha. I am not attempting to discredit anyone! Actually, I have produced laser cut aircraft for 2 years now for school projects. I design my pieces, and put it together. Having pieces interlock saves a lot of time in assembly and reduces errors. I suppose it comes easier to assemble when you know where everything goes because you designed it :P The whole reason I was asking about what people like is because I was interested in producing the exact type of kits you think I'm putting you down for making. I would love to design kits, laser cut them to have easy-to-assemble pieces, and sell them. It appears the market for that is a tad on the small side though. Something to do as a hobby maybe...

RE: Kit talk...
 

I applaude you in your efforts. Kit building is a lost form of modeling that is being lost on a whole new generation. A well designed kit does not really take that long to build and when you are done you can show up at the field with something that noone else has, a plane that "you" built.

The Pamster
AMA 202345

RE: Kit talk...
 

You wrote "Kit building is a lost form of modeling" . . . . .

I do not know if you meankit building in the senseof buying a kit and building or assembling it. or if you mean putting a kit together to sellit like manymanufacturers or distributorsdo.

Zor

RE: Kit talk...
 

Seams like Both to me

RE: Kit talk...
 

<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; ">It is pretty sad that for the most part kits can only be found online.  Of the 3 RC LHS near me, only one stocks kits of any sort, and usually it is a trainer of some sort. They dont even stock the motors for them unless you want electric.  Before Christmas, the one shop had a Sig Cub, when I went back a few weeks later, they had sold it, but had a Sig Kadet. I bought that one,  The rest of what they had were rubber powered kits. <div>
</div><div>Now if you wanted an ARF or RTF, they had hundreds of them, provided you went electric. I think there were 2 glow ARF's. </div></div>

RE: Kit talk...
 

Never better quoted! As a father of 3, grandfather of 5, building can't interfere with a father's/husband's obligations. That in itself said, there are times after the kids are in bed, or the mornings they sleep late and Mama isn't in a mood, where one can sneak in some quality time needed to build. Being a parent means adevotion to a build will take an eternity or one will end up building more than that just a plane bycreating a family animosty toward a MIA Dad and his hobby.As addictive as this hobby is, guys, don't let it replace that quality family time. YouWILL regret not spending itwith thefamily. I think I'm actually enjoying this more at my IHOPdiscount age than Iwould have at ayounger age.

RE: Kit talk...
 

You are probably correct.
I wish we did not have to ask for more clarity.

Zor

RE: Kit talk...
 

By and large, I feel if you build the aircraft, it will be of much better quality, that will last longer. Also, the final assembly part of the build (which is basically all there is with an ARF), I find much easier with kits or scratch builds. I like to have all of my linkages installed prior to covering. I also like to install rocket tubes in the wings to make cable routing easier. I find it takes 3-4 times longer to final assemble an ARF over a kit. Plus, I just cannot stand plastic film coverings. Especially on a fuselage. They just wrinkle and do not last.

RE: Kit talk...
 

To each their own, and I'm sure there are lots of nerves on a ARG maiden for the money factor, but your heart is really in your thought when you have the money and a bunch of time invested. That's a thrill.

RE: Kit talk...
 

[&:] Not this argument again. How about " I'm a model airplane enthusiast" that should cover it all; I build, I assemble, I repair, I fly, I watch, I remodel, I like MODEL AIRPLANES.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I really enjoy the art of building a nice flying airplane from a box of wood pieces,and from a set of plans,but I am finding that my time is getting more limited I have a couple of half finished projects that need to get worked on, and a whole wall of kits I really want to build but havent even opened the boxes to look them over in a couple of years.

I have actually sold off a couple of models that I just never thought I would get to,still keeping those prized ones for when I feel there is enough time to build,its hard to avoid the nearly instant gratis that comes from a arf

RE: Kit talk...
 

There are kits with everything laser cut and 30 page assembly instructions that are more like building a plastic car.  Then there are die cut kits with a set of plands and instructions that start off with "After build the wing, lay the left and right fuselage sides on the plans".  No how to build the wings, just "after".  And various levels in between.  But even kits give you the building experience to do the scratch repairs where you have to cut your own parts according to the plans, and sometimes the plans don't even show enough.  I am building an old Champion kit and lost a ply bulkhead that I need to replace.  But all I have is a side and top view and the buldheads on both side as guides.  So now is the time to replenish my lost set of Dremel tools ;)

The only problem with building is time.  But the satisfaction of having the first flight trim out with only one or two clicks is priceless.  I just wish my basement wasn't so cold [&amp;:]

RE: Kit talk...
 

<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; ">I always have it in my mind to trace out the parts on a sketch pad before assembling so I have a copy to make repairs, but dang if I forget and glue the sumbiotch together. I trace the blank it came in, but need to remember to add an extra 1/16" to the line on the new part so it matches.  When I start my Kadet, I have the sketch pad with the kit so this time I wont forget.</div>

RE: Kit talk...
 

I guess it must be winter for most of these poster as well,,,,,,,,,I even read though this!

RE: Kit talk...
 

Sorry,,,,posters.

RE: Kit talk...
 

hey minn..I am now in florida and prior to that lived in upstate ny and spent hours building during the cold months.its just opposite down here..its so warm and humid in the summer months that you stay inside an airconditioned room and of course I build!so you are either living in a freezer or a hot oven.take your pick..

RE: Kit talk...
 

I have been on a soap box for years telling everyone with a new kit to make templates of each and every part, save your plans and instructions. This way when a kit is discontinued the plans and templates can be shared and we can keep these old planes alive. When I moved to NV I tossed out a bunch of the stuff I had and have been kicking myself for it ever sense. I won't be tossing any of them out again. Templates are easy to make and worth the time. I don't bother with doing it for trainer type of planes. As long as a trainer can be had an an ARF people will learn to fly. Interlocking parts in kits is nothing new, been around forever but it does help make a plane easier to build and straighter. Nothing wrong with it, I like kits with the interlocking parts. I think they come out a lot stronger.
I gave up buying new kits. I try to find kits at swap meets and estate sales so I can afford them.
Reason is I'm on a very fixed income and kits became out of my reach. My all time favorite is the CG EXTRA. It ended it's life around $200.00 then I would have to buy a glass cowl and landing gear so it went even higher. I started cutting my own from plans and just buying my wood in bulk so a kit doesn't cost me near as much as long as I cut my own. Wish I had a friend with a laser cutter though. Then I would have a huge stock pile of kits on hand.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I contemplated buying a $3500 laser cutter. It was capable of cutting through aluminum, but the main purpose would be to do odd wood cutting jobs, and metal cutting mixed with wood cutting is a no no.  Shelved it until I have spare cash on hand. <div>
</div><div>If I do get the chance to get one though, it will be for hire too, send me a 1:1 sketch under a certain size and the wood and for a small fee, you would have new parts. Something I am still considering. </div>

RE: Kit talk...
 

[sm=wink_smile.gif]For a minute a number of posts back, I thought the kit vs arf was going to turn into a political debate. I guess we could, red box vs blue box.

RE: Kit talk...
 

It is to each his own. I am one of the guys that enjoys building more then flying. Even though I have many flyable planes I spend the majority of my time building. I don't knock a guy for having an ARF or for his building ability or lack of;). There is enogh stress in life without bashing someone over their particular views on a hobby. If a guy wants to burn up the sky with an ARF have at it and enjoy. I do say I really enjoy attending scale shows and admiring the work of other builders, it usually makes me want to go home and stomp mine to pieces though:D.
I tend to build the planes in a manner that satisfies myself, if someone else likes and appreciates the time and effort that went into it that's great. If someone wants to point out this and that isn't scale or correct that is fine as well. We are all different and like diffent things that is what makes the hobby great, I learn something new every day on this site and enjoy just browsing the different builds. I also try to post as many of my builds as I can. I may not be an expert or maybe far from it but hopefully I will give some a useful tip or a learn something to help me with the build in the process. To me this generally makes the whole build process much more enjoyable.

Later!!
Anthony

RE: Kit talk...
 

As Pmerritt said... kit building can take an eternity if your a family man. To me kit building is like sailing. It's not the destination, it's the journey. My kit builds will take anywhere from 4 mos to a year depending on what is going on. For me. having a couple flyable planes on hand helps with the enjoyment of the build.

RE: Kit talk...
 

Great way to put it. A kit build is such a completely different experience than the prefab stuff. I like arfs because they are something I can bang out in a short time. I can then take time on a scale kit(or plans build) and enjoy the process without the hurry. If arfs hadn't come so far along in quality, we wouldn't be having this discussion on the versus between the two.

RE: Kit talk...
 

I really like how waconut put it.. as for me I'm a modeler ,builder ,flyer and all inbetween.. i fly to fly ,I build to build..I watch everyone fly..It truely all interests me..I am obssessed with it all...it doesn't matter what comes to the field..I will study it and come up with ideas for hints,tips tricks or whatever...I can't take the plane with me but the feeling I got when I built and flew.....http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...eeth_smile.gif

guamflyer

RE: Kit talk...
 

I remember the "OLD" Lanier (spelling) Arf's. They were nothing but flying bricks, if you could get them to fly:). Sig Mfg had their "quick build" line which was a bit better, but they were a bit heavy as I remember them. Basically a profile plane with an ABS molded skin for the pretty stuff.

Yes the ARF's are a god send to some. My first ARF, (Hanger 9 CAP) purchased at the beginning of last summer lasted 10 flights before it's demise. The horizontal stab decided it didn't want to play with the rest of the airplane:( Before that the LG departed the plane on landing after the third flight tearing out the supporting structure. On the sixth flight the LG departed the plane in mid flight never to be found again:). My fault for not lock titeing the screws[:@] Now it is being reconstructed mostly from scratch. I only saved the canopy, rear turtle deck, servo tray, cowl (with lots of repair work) and wheel pants (were never on the plane:D). I "reconstructed" enough to trace new parts and it is for all intents and purposes a scratch build. So I guess I've experienced it all from ARF to cut your own kit. Time will tell if I did a better job on the new plane.

I see no problem with ARF's. If they bring more people to the hobby, GREAT! The more the merrier I say. It helps to drive down the cost of everything hobby related.

Ken

RE: Kit talk...
 

I built my first plane when I was 8, yeah , it looked like a POS. But I built it myself and I didn't know anybody else that built model airplanes. It was a Sterling Ringmaster. I saved my money until I could afford to buy a McCoy red head .35. I flew CL until 1972 when I saw my first RC plane. We built from kits or scratch built back then. Back then you could buy one of the first ARF which was a Johnny Casburn Lucky Fly. It had a build up balsa fuselage with a foam turtle deck covered with poster board. The wings were foam covered with a shiny vinyl. The canopy was a flat piece of clear acetate plastic. Several years later one of the club members formed a canopy on a vacuum form and they became part of the kit. They were good flying planes. One of the nice things about the kit was that it was open customizing.

The other ARF was made by Lanier. They were real POSs made with thin plastic and foam.

Back then, if you didn't know how to do something, you hoped you had a club member that did. Otherwise, you had to figure it out yourself. NO INTERNET BACK THEN BOYS !!!

The big suppliers was Circus Circus, Tower Hobbies, Hobby Barn, and your neighborhood hobby shop.

Frank