RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Outside of a couple of GWS planes, and to me, it is a bit of a stretch to call them ARF's, more like molded foam kits, all of my planes are kits or scratch builts. At my field most of the planes are ARF's. I about the only one who does not fly ARF's. Guess I am a builder first and flier second.

I have even taken to putting on a "not ARF" decal on my planes, most keep asking who makes that ARF. (Picture a no smoking symbol with the word ARF in the middle.) :)

At the field last weekend, I had a one ask where I got my "ARF" Starliner's, took a minute for him to understand that there are only 2 of those on the entire planet, and both were in front of him.

Oh well, at least I get to have fun with my unique models! :D

Picture of my Starliner below, it is my MK III version, MK IV now flying too! (20% larger with retracts)

Later!

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

There's a few planes that are called ARFs that are better reffered to as kits. Back when Byron introduced their Stits Bipe, a lot of purists suggested they not be allowed in competition under the BOM. The two people I knew who bought and built them said they could have scratch built the planes quicker and with less work.

Building coming back??? I never noticed that it left!

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Can anybody think of a single hobby where tedious manual labor was replaced by factory-made goods but later on a significant number of participants went back to tedious manual labor? Think of all the things that people used to do themselves, but now pay someone else to do. Is sewing your own clothes coming back? Is cooking coming back? Is working on your car coming back? Is playing a musical instrument coming back?

I'm afraid not. We all live like kings now, and I don't see a king building his own models. The only thing that might change this equation is when (not if) Chinese labor costs the same as U.S. labor. When that happens, I think you'll see kits come back, and I don't know, but some families might be sewing their own clothes as well.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

?????????

How 'bout fun, enjoyable, rewarding time spent creating a (somewhat) original thing of beauty in both form and function ...

Amen, brother.

PS. My sister enjoys sewing clothes for enjoyment, I know many guys who work on cars for fun, I play guitar and enjoy playing with other musicians, my teenage son loves to cook and watch the Food Network ... I could go on. Hobbies are not going to die. It's just that R/C planes are both a hobby and a sport. Some like the sporting aspect more, some like the hobby aspect more. In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Sure!
Renaissance Faires.
Started out buying the clothing, etc.
Have since made my own set of Turk Garb and a set for my wife.
Had to purchase a sewing machine. Spent hours down in the garment district looking for fabric. Searching down patterns. Learning to sew.
The most tedious task/job was making maille hauberks for myself and several friends, one of which is a woman. Some 30,000 rings in each. All made from 14 gauge steel wire (16 gauge for the woman's hauberk) which is hand wound on a crank shaped steel rod mounted in an A frame. All the resulting coils must be hand cut with bull snips into rings. All the rings must be connected together into maille sheets which must then be formed into shirts.
Teaching myself to make the coif took a couple of weeks by itself.
You can buy maille hauburks and the like from catalogs for cheaper than I spent on materials.
I cant think of any more tedious job or hobby I have done than making that armor.
Strictly a labor of love because I sure wouldnt do it for a paycheck!
Many Faire participants start out buying all their garb but end up making their own. If I had a place to set up a forge I would try my hand at sword making. Still at the buy it stage of that aspect of Faire going.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I dont know if this has been said already, but what are the chances of the majority of kit builders being non-interested in becomming members of online communities. I have noticed that our hobby has become more accessable to novices and to the general public through the growth of the ARF market. However, there may not be a way to conclude that the interest in Kits has increased or decreased because not all RC modelers, especially those too busy building to fiddle on the internet, access the internet. What do you think?


Chris

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

i much would rather build my airplanes than buy them mostly done. it gives me something to do while i am not flying besides hang out with my fiance. i like woodowrking as well. so i seem to get along with building. i am not opposed to arf's my friend who i go flying with doesnt have the patience or time to build a full airplane. they are perfect for him.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

after reading all of the above posts, its like everything else these days-- it all what turns you on. Arf's are good for a while and can help you get flying Right Now. if thats all your interested in. however most people will make up their mind real quick, is this all I want to do is open the box and go fly or spend time to create something with my fingers and mind ?. it all boils down to to what your idea of Show and Tell is. eventually we all end up the same way- we either get our fill real quick or go another step and another step up. time management is the crux of it all. we all go thru fads. dick

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

the way I look at the question is--? and the answer is 'it's all time management'. folks today have so much available for them to occupy their free time and the ready built is the answer. so us old timers spend our free time on Scratch and kits-- that is in between our computor activities. could have had a wing glued up, instead of surfing RCU. I enjoy both. dick

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

For what its worth, I am picking up a Twinstar ARF from the LHS this friday and I have two kits on the building boards as I type this.
Guess I go both ways?:)

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I want to see some more Kits. I went looking for a few in the 50CC aerobatic range and really was disapointed in what I found. Funny thing is that the Kit I wanted to buy was $100 more than any of the ARFs out there. BOY was that a surprise!

I have flown several ARFs and built 2 kits. I am ready for another Kit and will be able to take my sweet time because I have my planes to fly.

The biggest problem is which kit? :)

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

BTE Venture is back in production and shipping. Got mine a couple of weeks ago.
My next build once I finish what I am working on now.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Building and Flying - Two different but related hobbies. I love 'em both

Nothing tops watching something you've built from sticks take to the air. "ARF-ers" never experience that pleasure. I'm not a purist, mind you, (assembling an ARF currently) but if you have the time and the inclination, there's a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction to be had from building. Try a small simple kit for starters . . . maybe one of the STIKs. It'll get you going and you'd be surprised how much taller you'll feel at the field when your new plane is noticed and you can say you made it yourself.

I've been building for 45 years & still love it.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I've seen Ken's coments about kits seeming to cost as much as the built up planes, or even more in a lot of different places.

About 1956, one of the Model Railroad manufacturers was asked about this, since the built up versions of his kits were only about a dollar higher and if you bought the parts individually, you'd be paying several times the cost of the built up model. Turns out that the inventorying of parts, assorting them into kits, warehousing all these parts and kits, was actually more labor intensive than having people assemble the parts into kits as the parts come off the production line. Probably the same thing holds true in our case

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I think we have to divide this RC addiction into two diffrent things,
-RC flying, can be done with either ARF or Kit built plane, it's a sport
-RC building, Building kit for the enjoyment of it, of course the goal is to have it fly, but it's secondary to the pleasure of building and finishing it.

Personally I tend to like building, constructin, planning, collecting stuff, more than actual air time.
Sure, I go to the field and fly for fun, but the real meat and potatoes is to sit alone infront of the building board with a cold beer and gluing balsa sticks to my fingers :) ...And being proud of what I MADE.

Kit's also keep my number of planes down. Thos (two) ARF's I have, have been assembled, test flown and then put aside for the next project. A kit takes so much more time that I don't need to get new planes all the time.

Edit: ARF's are good if you want a bang around plane or to quickly learn how to fly. But it should be mandatory to atleast build one kit to realise that it's not that difficult and actually really enjoyable.
People would respect their planes more if they built them instead of 'bought' them.

€0.02 from Finland

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Spot on!

Ken, with a few kits under your belt you might consider building from plans. Someone once described this as "first making your own kit by cutting out all the parts from balsa or ply, then assembling that kit". There's a bit more problem solving involved than with kits, but on the plus side you'll be spoiled rotten for choice :)

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

The way I got into the hobby was when my wife bought me a trainer kit for Christmas one year. I spent about 2 months building it, and had a blast. The whole time, though, I kept telling myself, !QUOT!it will never fly, it will fall apart on take off!!QUOT! The first time it flew I was grinning from ear to ear. Something that I had built with my own two hands was taking to the air!!! I won't mention what happened to my second kit on it's maiden flight (it was my piloting, not my craftsmanship, anyways). To me, one of the benefits of building your own plane is repairing it. I've been out of the hobby for about 4 1/2 years. I'm in the military and move around a lot. Both planes had taken damage from transport (and crash damage for the second model, but I'm not mentioning that!) When I decided to fix them it was no big deal. Cut of the mono coat, re-glue the damaged pieces, or in one case, strengthen a cracked spar. I had no problems with this because I'd built them in the first place.

I've never had an ARF (and don't plan to get one either) but I can understand the draw. Some people don't want to spend the time building, they just want to fly. I guess I'm a builder at hart.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

In my opinion kit-building will never die altogether. To a lot of people the building is more fun than the actual flying. We have a guy in our club who has built four different flying WW2 bombers, all of which have a wing span of no less than 7m.. He is nearly finished with his fifth. Now this guy can't even fly a trainer.. Just an example. There are alot of people out there that build to build, not to fly.

But as for the people who build to fly, it seems as though they are getting less in numbers than the people who simply buy an ARF and fly it. Alot of guys.. no ... MOST of guys who buy kits from our HB dont even know how to join a wing, nevermind doing the radio installation them selves.

This hobbie isn't what it used to be. The building isn't an intricate part of the sport anymore. Thats where ARF's came in.. And yes people find the thought of just 'buying 'n flying' quite attractive.

Ultimately the RC Flyer that want's his ship to look like no-one elses will never die. There will always be that dusty box containing a kit lying on your LHB's top shelf waiting for that particular RC Pilot to buy it..

My 2c..

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

And, occasionally, an ARF can serve as the basis of a different looking or better flying ship.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

-

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I killed an ARF today by loosing orientation and crashing it.
After removing radio and engine I chucked it in the trash and felt totally OK about it.
This was a plane I bought to get back in to RC flying after a long pause and it has fulfilled it's purpose... Like a tool, no feelings attached!
My Girlfriend who was with me at the field was more worried about the loss than me.

Loosing this ARF didn't bother me at all, loosing my kit built 4*60 would hurt on the other hand...Perhaps that's why I haven't had the guts to fly it yet? :) ... I will keep building kits and fly them, just need to practice some more on those ARF's.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I truly wish that were true my friend ... :(

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

My LHS say he mostly sell those small electrics, like the GWS and similair foam constructions.
That way he keep only a very limited supply of IC planes and they're 90% ARF's.
Last time I was in he had one kit on the shelf... Luckily I can odrder the kit I want and he gets it for me but it takes a week.

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

Personally, I have two planes fully airworthy right now, and both are foam electric ARF's. However, I also have a few balsa ARF's waiting to be built. Contrast that with the nearly thirty kits I have in my hobby room (it looks like a storage warehouse sometimes), and I'd say I'm firmly entrenched in kit building.

I've found that some airplanes are better for me as ARF's, while the rest are best as kits. For example, I wouldn't be willing to spend the time to build a H9 Funtana 90 from a kit, but I was so impressed with the quality of the ARF that I purchased one to try this new 3D fad. I could not have built a comparable plane for $209.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want an ARF of something like the HOB 1/5 scale Extra 300L I'm currently working on. I can't find the level of quality in a .40-size ARF like I want for this particular plane. Also, there are alot of planes I have on hand that are not made as ARF's. This allows me the opportunity to pull something off my shelf and build a model unlike anything else at the field. This is an experience that cannot be replaced by ARF's. The pride in showing a model that you've built from a box full of sticks and sheets is the reason I got into this hobby fourteen years ago.

As long as I'm around, I'll always build kits when I want something to be proud of.

-Wayne

RE: Is Building Comming Back?
 

I totally agree with everything that has been said in this thread. Here's my story:

Got a Nexstar RTF, crashed it. Threw away the airframe and got the ARF version, crashed it. Modified the crashed airframe into a tialdragger (fun!) and it still flies today, even if my engine is pretty beat up from all the dirtnaps! Its not really an ARF anymore, and I get some good compliments on the conversion. (Thanks again, britbrat).

Now I am nearing completion of my first kit, the beautifully-designed Sig Somethin' Extra. I have thouroughly enjoyed every aspect of this build, and even the Monokote has been coming out very nice. I am very proud of the time, effort and patience that I've taken in this project, and the end result really shows it. I will never buy another ARF. (BTW, the SE will have an O.S. 70FS in it with a 12x8, cross yer fingers!)

I am probably in the minority here, especially as I am on the younger side of the demographic (32 next week [:@]), but for me this was just the most natural progression. It would be good to see more kits, and I think we will as more and more people follow the same progression as I am.

Next plane? Top Flite, either Mentor or the Arrow- and retracts.[8D]