I know that ARF's are the big thing right now, and I have several myself, but it seems that I am talking to more and more people who are straying from ARF's and back to building Kits. I wonder if people are starting to grow tired of having their Plane look like several others at the field, or what? It just seems to me that only a few months ago it looked like an inevitable end to alot of Kits, but now I am not so sure. Maybe Kits are getting ready to make a big comeback. I wouldn't say that the ARF's are a fad, but it does appear to me anyway that more and more people are wanting a Plane that they can say they built themselves, and finish with their own personal touches. I have also read and talked to people who are just now starting to complain about LHShops lack of kits on the shelf. I think the ARF's are great, and are here to stay, but the question I ask here is will the Kits regain enough popularity or demand to regain shelf space at the Hobby Shops, or am I just wrong in my observation?

I hope you are right. ARFs have gotten a lot of people into flying but there is more to the hobby than flying. The problem is that ARFs mean higher dollar sales at the same % of profit. Buisnesses like that.

I definatly think kit are coming back, I know I hate arfs so I build my own and mod them, make them pretty, show the bones through transperent colors and show what work You have accomplished. my .02 cents.

I'll tell you the problem with ARF's : You can assemble them too fast. Everybody, I mean everybody is always looking for the next plane. (even my freinds with real planes ). If you buy nothing but ARF's all of the time and assemble them in a week, the next thing you know, you have 25 planes in the house. That happened to a freind of mine. The way to slow down a little, so you don't wind up like the lady with 50 cats in her house, is to build kits. Kits keep the numbers sane !!!

I Am Sorry to say That Kit Building Is A Dieing Art.Folks Just Don't See The Reason To Spend Time And Money For Some Thing That Will End In The Trash Any Way.I Will All Ways Build Kits.I"m with You I Enjoy The Satisfaction Of Building And Flying.A Elder Builder i Know Says "Building Is My Hobby Flying Is My Sport"
The Other Point Is the Fact That You Can Not Build A Kit For The Price Of The Same Plane In An ARF.I Do Get A Kick Out Of he Fraze "Do Believe The Gear was Only Held On With Hot Glue"To Witch i Say That Never Happens With A Kit.
we Live I A World Of Instant Satisfaction.Fast Food,Fast Oil Change Exc.I Just Seem To Me Some People coming It to The Hobby Do Not See A Need To Learn The Skills To Build A Kit When ARF Is Quick And Does Not Require The Years To Master All The Tricks And Skills To build,Not To Mention The tools And Space Needed.
ARF Are Going To Stay.They Are getting Better And Has Allowed Many Good Pilots Who Would Not Have The Time To Build Join This Great Hobby.Not Every Pilot Has The Luxury Of Time It Could Be Work Of Family Or Both.
I Would Like To See Every Body Build At Least 2 Kits Just To Have A Better Understanding Of What Makes A Kit Fly.
Be It A Kit Or ARF As Long As Safety Is First On The Flight Line.I"m Here To Enjoy The Comradely Of My Friends And Hobby And That Is The Long And Short Of It.
When The Last Kit Builder Hangs Up His Iron It Will Be A Sad Day.So I Will Teach When I Can And Hopefully Kits Will A Part Our The hobby For A Long Time.Good topic.I Will Now get Off My Soap Box.

I have enjoyed the ARF Planes that I have, and I like the Kit Planes that I built. My Fleet is about 50% ARF and 50% Kit Built. It does seem that the instant gratification that comes with an ARF is becoming less important to me than the Pride one takes when they build one themselves, and then can really be thrilled when it flys well. Where I have really noticed this swing towards kits is at my local club, and I have also noticed some swing in the various forums towards personalizing Planes. I have talked to several about what projects they did this winter. I was exspecting to hear more about what ARF's they had assembled, but I was suprised to learn that alot of Kits were being done this winter which was a total turn around from last when it seemed like more ARF's then Kits were being done during the winter months. I am not stating all of this because I personally enjoy building. I am stating this because it really does seem to me that there is a slight shift going on putting people back towards building.

I consider myself a builder. I am fairly new to RC and am almost done with my second build. I got an ARF trainer for learning to fly, but am not likely to get another ARF. I currently fly a 4 * that I built from kit, and am about ready to glass a TF Spit. I have 5 kits already waiting for space on my build table.

I hope there will be an increased interest in kits, particularly balsa kits. I will always admire the craftmanship of those who turn a box of wood into a flying marvel. I hope to progress enough to join thier ranks, and ultimately design and produce kits myself one day.

It would be nice if there were more selection of kits in the LHS. The ability to open a box and peek inside before buying is a lot of fun. But, with the internet, it has become easier to get info about a kit without having to see it in person. It also allows for a much larger selection than what could be found at any LHS.

What I would like to see at the LHS, is more tools and accessories for builders. Some hobby shops are so focused on ARFs and park fliers, they don't even carry more than a half dozen colors of Monocote, let alone fiberglass, fabric coverings, tissue, dope, resin, or even a good selection of balsa. When was the last time you saw a vaccume forming box sold at your LHS?

I read an article in my local paper a couple of days ago about aircraft manufacturers starting to ask for royalties from kit producers. This may dampen the independent producers. But another point that was made in the article by Bob Hayden, the Executive Director of the Model Manufacturers Association. He stated that the average (plastic) model builder these days is a 45 year old male. There are fewer and fewer young people building models of any type.


Scott

I appreciate your good honest answer. I really do sense a change comming though, and I don't think it is because I am looing for it to. I just wonder if all these new people who were brought in by the ARf are now starting to want something that represents there own personal taste, look, and feel? I wonder if people are just becoming naturaly curious as to how Planes go together, and what makes them tick? I am even seeing more and more modifications done to ARF's to try and seperate their Plane from anyone elses. Maybe I am really missing something here, but it just seems that the atmosphere is changing ever so slightly in the R/C Plane Community. The ARF's are still hot, but maybe peoples desire to learn as much as they can about something they love has brought Kit Building from cold to mild, and ARF's from sizzling to hot? So as I see it, if the trend prevails, and my sense is correct, we could be looking at ARF'S Hot, and Kit Building Hot by this time next year!

I learned to fly last summer with an arf trainer. I decided this winter (which are extremely long up here!) to build a kit just to fuel my interest in this hobby and to give me something to do on those long winter afternoons. So my wife bought me a 4 * 40 kit for x mas. Long story short, I can't wait to see the plane I BUILT fly. Just seeing that plane sitting in my shop gives me a ton of satisfaction. To say the least, I really don't think I'm gonna buy another arf anytime soon. I think what we are starting to see is people like myself who want to see their creations fly. I think building is making a comeback and that its gonna get more popular.

ARF's are a great addition to the hobby. I have owned a few in the past, but much prefer building my own. Dad got me involved 40 plus years ago and to really enjoy the hobby I need to build. I will stay in the hobby as long as health the availability of flying sites and KITS are with us. The satisfaction of flying my own creation and honing the building/finishing skills provides a lot of joy and memories. Dad died last year.

JEB

Sorry about the loss of your dad Jeb.

Mine too introduced me to this fine hobby 40 some years ago and to this day there is still hugh satisfaction watching something I built from a box of sheets and sticks take off for the first time. It's hard to describe to someone who only flys ARF's, as they too get a similar warm fuzzy with their first take-off because they feel like they built their ARF. I've known a couple of staunch ARF advocates who did in fact build from a kit and they both said that their first flights on their creations were MUCH MORE satisfying than any previously flown ARF's.

I own one ARF and it's OK, but I truely love the kits and scratches that I've built and will continue to be a kit/scratch builder. It's in my blood.

I wonder if building out of kits is like everything else? As new people get interested in this hobby, I wonder if the percentage of those who will build is about the same year after year. With the abundance of new ARF's, it is quite possible that the percentage of builders "appears" to have been reduced, when it just might be the availability of ARF's causes more people to get into flying that wouldn't normally do so. For me, I will be very frank. I am on my second kit (Sig Hog Bipe) and am in the middle of building it right now. (You can see my progress in this forum as the Sig Hog Bipe build.) Yes, I do like creating something out of a box of wood and then putting it in the air. However, I am a flyer at heart, and ARF's allow me to try a lot of different types of planes over a shorter period of time. I now have 6 planes flying, with the Hog being my 7th. Of the 6 flying, 5 are ARF's and one (Sig Somethin Extra) is from a kit. I do think that I do build a pretty good plane, but only have the SE and a partial built Hog Bipe to go by. I will be honest and say that I am not sure whether or not I will build a kit past the hog, but will not make a decision until it is finished. I have a list of 4 new planes that I am considering and one of them will be my next plane. Yes, they are all ARF's...

It is quite possible that my direction is based on my size of building area that I have. It is just not a lot, and it is in a non-heated/non-cooled garage. If, I had the ability to have a shop that would allow for kit building, ARF construction, and area enough where they could be in process at the same time, maybe I would look at it a little differently. I must admit, that at this stage, I just don't know where I will end up. I am one who has nothing against either Kit's or ARF's since I like to see just about anyting in the air that flies.

I really can't say that I think building is coming back. Look at what's available out there. We see new kits coming all the time, most of these are in the scale or sport scale categories though. You get new manufactures producing great kits. Red Star RC, Sky Shark, and a designer here and there that is offering something new. But with all of that, you have companies such as Pica and others that just close there doors.

I also started about 25 years ago with my Dad who built CL planes. Back then you had to build. There is nothing like seeing what you put together going through the air! I just got my first ARF -- a present from my Dad. He has two and four kits somewhere in progress or lined up. I think ARFs are great, it has gotten a lot of people into the Sport of flying. Many of the guys at our field just don't have time to build. I actually spend about 85% of my hobby time building.

I also agree that you just can't build a kit for what an ARF costs. But then again, I wouldn't say the ARFs that I have seen are super quality. How nice can a $100 plane be when its assemble in a factory in Vietnam or China?

Building give a sense of accomplishment that flying cannot give. I know that there are lots of guys who bring out new ARFs to the field. Of course they get a compliment or two but you can only take pride in something that you build from a box of sticks, patients, and skill.

I think ARFs are a good addition to our past time, but I hope we don't see any more bleeding of the kit manufactures. After all, Tower just annouced that it was discontinuing the Top Flite P-39 -- what's next?

I have said this before, and I'll say it again. It seems to me that there are two distinct and seperate aspects to this hobby, building and flying. You can enjoy both, or one or the other. It depends on the person. As far as kit building dieing, I'm 35 so there are at least 40-50 years before the last kit builder dies.

ARFS & Building...
ARF is something you buy... Scratch or a kit is something YOU CREATE!!! If I have to explain ..... I doubt very much you would understand... Bert

I haven't flown anything yet, and I'm still working on finishing my first plane which is a kit. I enjoy building things in general, and by building an airplane, I can do something with it after I'm done building other than look at it. I've always liked planes, so I expect that I'll be with this hobby for many years to come.

From where I am now, the only way I can see myself getting an ARF, is if I've crashed all my kits and I really have to fly as soon a possible. The idea of buidling something functional is one of the greatest appeals for me in this hobby. (Furnature may be functional, but lacks some of the glory... and just because it might last a little longer doesn't make it more enjoyable.)

I too am one of the older young fliers, just turned 30, so here's another kit builder that will probably be around for a while. That is, as long as I have some minimal ability to keep them in the air for the majority of the time.

Hi,

The points so well made by so many distill the many threads that have already been on this matter.

From my experience it seems that "the norm" is for most newcomers to the R/C addiction assemble and fly ARF's some will pick up building skills repairing the inevitable damage from unplanned landings and a much smaller percentage will move on to also build kits and a far smaller percentage will also try plan and scratch building. I also see in my club some of the very experienced builders who are time deprived with work and family also purchasing ARFs, (particularly 3D models) to give a new form of flying a try.

Given the ageing of the populations of most "first world" countries as "the baby boomers" retire I suspect more may build as they have time to fill in.

Cheers,

Colin

I can't seem to keep ARFs togother as long as my kit builds. An ARF lasts maybe three seasons before its coming apart at the seams. I have kit builds that are 15 years old. I liked the ARFs for awhile, but seem to be looking at a kit for my next project. I miss being able to chose my own hardware, choose the colors, and make modifications to the plane to make it fly how I want it to fly.

I don't want this to turn into a which is better post! There are tons of post here on RCU on that subject. What I wanted to get from this thread was whether anyone else has noticed that there seems to be a little more interest in building kits than what there has been only in the rescent past. I am not stating that kits are the hot item right now. ARF's are the hot selling thing right now! What I am stating is that there seems to be increasing interest in kits from newer people who have soloed there ARF and now want to know what it is like to build. I am also not saying that this is the case for everyone. I think the rebirth of building is in its very early stages. I will try to compare what I am trying to say with something I remember as a kid.
When I was a kid, me and my buddies used to like to build Plastic Car Models. Each kit came with hundreds of little parts that you had to glue together using Testors Glue. We nevered Played with the Models, but set them up for display to show our cars off to each other, and share tips and tricks about how we accomplished the final result. We were very proud of the Cars we had built. Then they came out with some real neat Snap Together Models. These Models didn't use any Glue, and you could have one together in no time at all. Boy this was going to be great! I could have all kinds of Models to show off to my friends now, because I could build so more faster. This was great for about the first 2 or 3 Models, but it soon became very less rewarding than the Models that me and my buddies had built that used the glue. The "New Thrill" was gone as quick as it had come for us. It was back to the glue for me and my buddies.
Anyway, as I have said, I own several ARF's and enjoy them, but I have much more personal attachment to my kit built Planes. I think you should buy and Fly whatever you get satisfaction from. All I am saying is that I am talking to more and more people who seem to be gaining interest in building Kits. Not to long ago I would have said that kits will be almost extinct in no time at all, but I am now wondering whether eventually the kits will regain a big role and be able to compete for space in the LHS. Not something that is going to happen over night, and only by looking back at what is posted here now a year or two from now will tell how right or wrong my observation is.

Kit building has never died or slowed down. The thing you are seeing is a huge influx of ARFs from the "I want it now" generation. As they get bored and move on to the next thing that dominates their finances, the same old kit building guys are still building kits. Some of the guys that have been around forever have a few ARF planes, but mostly they stick with kits because they enjoy building them. Many of the new guys in the hobby buy ARFs because they want to fly and not build. They seem to stick with it a while and quit. The ones that stick with it longer, seem to eventually build one or two, or keep flying ARFs. Doesn't really matter which they choose, as long as they stick with it.

Just my opinion, but I don't think the number of builders have changed much, nor will it in the future. You will see a lot of new ARF guys come and go though.

I have been building for about twenty yaers now, and have nerver once considered an ARF. Even if my time is limited, and soimetimes it is(very). The fact that someone else has assembled some thing that not only FLYS.. but has the potential to do great damage/ harm really bothers me. I trust my judgment, through years of experience, and input from fellow modelers at our club with many years modeling. Just reading some of the responses in this thread only reinforces my feelings. ALSO i love the fact that MY plane internally and FINISH as well is my own, i almost never use the kit manufacturers scheme, and almost always modify the intenal hookups to my liking, (seems like MOST builders do this to suit what they like). LAST but not least is the GREAT satifaction i get when my two hands Create what i consider to be mans greatest contributiontions, a flying machine. I have started building a Trainor with my son and hope he can enjoy the process of Building with his kids as well.

At our club, even most of the older members who have built for years are buying ARF's. We also see a lot of turnover with ARF only people. It is so easy to get into the hobby because of ARFs that we have a huge influx of new flyers. But most of the ARF people either get into building or quit the hobby.

One sad thing is that the ARFs are complete and much less cost than building a kit. I think the kit business is in decline. I may have to start scratch building.

Well I have to go peel the CA off my fingers.

Bob

I enjoy building kits. I have yet to buy an arf or arc. I like to know how thing are put together. I enjoy building so much that I’m starting to build and finish planes for people. Yes it’s sad to see most everyone going to arf’s I can understand because people want it now to fly. I’m not knocking that one bit, I just love building

I have to agree with you my son got me a 4* 40 for xmas too. How did you find this kit as far as easy, it was my first one had trouble with the cowel and wheel pants GP are sending me one free of charges with more instructions as to where the cutting lines etc,
I need all the help I can get for this first kit , I would like to build more. I too just started this hobby and flying last year.

roltech

I went through 3 ARF stick planes in one year. Seems the firewall would bust loose on one of my better landings, or the wing joint would fail comming out of a dive full throttle and pulling up. I could even bust off the vertical stab on the door way of my shop loading up to go to the field. I finally decided I could build a better bird that would stand up to my type of flying, which wasn't very good. My first try at building was a Sig SE. I made a few mistakes while building, and the monokote job looked like one of those dogs with the wrinkled skin, but she flew just fine, survived my type of landings, and I could dink the stab on the door frame comming out of the shop with out it falling off. I don't think I will ever buy a ARF again, as they just don't hold up to my type of flying, and although my building is not much better, I havent built two right wings in a long time. I don't think building will ever go away, its just a rush to see your baby take to the air, and know you have a bird like no other in the world.