RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Thanks, Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Going slow but I made a little progress today. I removed the diagonal braces from the bays next to the sheeting and also 5 bays down. Made new braces and glued them into place. Made a set of servo hatch rails for the flaps and glued them in. Waiting for my band saw that I am hoping to get on my birthday to make the hatches for the flap servos. Glued on the ply end ribs and fiberglassed the center of the wing. Plus a little sanding. After reading this I guess I got more done than I thought. It just didn't seem like it at the time. I want to thank Leon, rc_heli_flier, once again for all the help he has been giving me in ideas and what he has done with his 4*60.

Thanks, Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Thanks Gene, glad to help!! Besides, I got most of my ideas off of others on here and in my local club for the mods that I did to mine. I'm just trying to pass them along.
Gene, your wing looks great, very good job indeed. I can't wait to see the rest of it come together. You will love this plane when finished.

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Made a little more saw dust today. I glued 1/2 " triangle stock to the leading edge and extended the trailing edge by 1/2". The aileron started out at 2 3/8" and ended up at 3 1/4" at its widest point.
My son Adam put down his lunch long enough to hold the wing for a couple of pictures.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Looks good Gene, your moving right along.

Regards
Mike

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

I don't have the engine yet so I'll be jumping around a little. I built the stab and fin today. Managed to sheet the stab before I had to quit. I enlarged the rudder by 1" and it will end up being 1 1/2" at the bottom. I will drill some holes in the material I added to the rudder to lighten it up a bit. I am going to counter balance the rudder and elevator unless someone knows a good reason not to. I glued an extra rib next to the outside ribs on the stab and above the top rib on the fin. I will cut in-between these ribs for the counter balances.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Gene,
Looking real good so far, you'll have it flying in no time!

As for the counter balances on the control surfaces, I have no idea what effect, if any, it would have on the overall performance of the plane. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on that. I can tell you mine flies ok without any and mine does knife-edge reasonably well with just the increased rudder size.

Leon

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Leon,

Thats exactly why I want to counter balance them. I have read that the plane will knife edge but not that great. I am hoping by increasing the size and with the counter balance on the rudder, that knife edge will be much more effortless. The jury is still out about using Robart vs the CA hinges. It might be until the end of the month or so before I can get the engine. I might have to find something else to do for a little while, like flying for once. Work looks like it might be slowing up just a little :eek:. I hope!

Well I just got home from work and I am beat so I don't think I will be doing any building tonight. Unless I wake up before everyone else :D.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Bruce Tharp designed one or two of the 4* series and he mentioned that the rudder didn't have enough authority.

I am going to order the 4*40 kit and do some mods along the same lines you are. I am pretty sure by now that I'll chop off 2 rib bays on the wing and extend the tips some to look like a Smoothie. Same shape for the stabilizer/elevator. I'll make counterbalances for those too. I like how you widened the ailerons. I was thinking about that and saw where you did it. Good idea, it seems. The Smoothie canopy is almost identical to the 4*, but the Smoothie looks much nicer and has more style overall. I guess I'll not exend the ailerons to the tips to cut down on flutter possibilities at higher speeds.

I'm going to overpower the 4*40 with something along the lines of a Saito .82. Haven't decided yet. I have a .72 that may haul it around fast enough too.

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

blwblw,

If the designer or the 4* says it does not have enough rudder authority, thats good enough for me. I'll go ahead with the counter balances that I had planned on. I am going to turn the canopy around as I have seen in some threads and it looks pretty good, so I am not going to replace it. The ailerons will be cut down to 19 1/2" with the servo almost at center. I don't think there will be too much of a problem with flutter and I also going to seal the hinge line.

An .82 on the 4*40! It should be a rocket. I am only using a 100 on the 60 size.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Wow, an .82FS on a 4*40 - that should really move! I only have a .91FS on my 4*60 and moves pretty well.

Gene, I think the counter balances are a good idea personally - it will be interesting to see what effect they have on the plane, especially knife edge. I'm probably going to build a 4*120 sometime in the next year and want to incorporate all the things I've learned from the 4*60, plus all the ideas of others (like the counter balances) into the plane. Now I just need to decide what engine to use on it (maybe a YS 140 sport?!).

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Leon,

I seem to remember reading about someone using a G38 or something like that on a 4*120! I'm not sure how big the 120 size plane is but it seems to me that it would be a rocket if it builds as light as the 60.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Hi Gene,
The 4*120 is a lot bigger than the 4*60. It can weigh up to 12 lbs. and has an 81" wingspan. We have one in our club and it make the 60 look small. I'd like to have the bigger one to put possibly the M V V S 1.6 gasser on (Evolution engine now) so I can add a smoke system to it. That engine should give it almost unlimited vertical I would think, and with the smoke on should look cool!!

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Leon,

Maybe I'll just have to build one of those too!! I'll just tell my wife "It's for Giant Scale training dear." ;):D:D

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Hog Head, was really impressed with your covering scheme on your LT-40. Are you planning something similar on your 4*?

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Hog Head,

He had to do a complete redesign as he didn't scale the plans. I was surprised by his comments too, but like you said, he was the designer.

I was hoping that the .82 would turn it into a rocket. I intend to have max fun out of this project. I have a new .82 now but it will go on a pattern plane that I'm building. I guess I'll just have to get another one. sheesh I have a Sig Kavalier with strip ailerons and I've read where they can flutter at high speeds. I was thinking of very high speeds for the 4*.

I'm going to leave the canopy stock as I want it to look like a Smoothie. They are identical. The balsa nose will complete the whole lookalike thing. Thanks for the shots of yours. Those helped.

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

onlyb,

Thanks. I hadn't thought about a transparent scheme for this one. I am thinking about checkerboard on the bottom of the wing/ailerons and stab/elevator. Not sure about the topside though. I might possibly do some airbrushing except I am not sure how the MK or UC will do with the paint and an open structure like wing.

blwblw,

I'm glad they helped. I thought about a built up cowl, but I think I am going to stick with the one from Fiberglass Specialties.

Does anybody have a pic they could post of one?

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Thanks Hog Head. I'm starting a 4* 60 soon and was thinking of doing the see through thing on it.

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

WHILE BUILDING THE FUSE:

Ok...on step 30 it tells you to put hte lower nose peice on....dont do it yet (fit it, pin it if you want...but dont glue it)

Wait untill AFTER you get the wing aligned and the wing hold-down dowels in, because once you putt that bottom peice on...its a witch to get those right...leaving it off, get the dowels marked and drilled, then put it on...

I figured this out recently when looking at the manual for the Venture 60 by BTE (Bruce designed the 4* originally...so the venture shares alot of design features, and in its manual, he holds off on that bit...)

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Looking at the 4* and the Smoothie, I'll put a top hatch from firewall to rear of the canopy like I did on the Somethin Extra. The Smoothie is rounded, so I'll probably shape 1/4" balsa for the look. A long top hatch is always nice.

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

Sorry guys, didn't mean to create any confusion. I'm modifying mine with a removeable blade type dihedral brace extending several rib bays more out into the wing inside a plywood/hardwood "box". Not to worry, it's plenty secure, and the technique has been used for a long time sucessfully. I just kind of went off on a tangent describing mine, and was not a suggestion for yours. sorry! :eek:

Here's another vote for counter-balancing the control surfaces. (just my opinion) :D
Looks good so far Gene... keep up the good work!

RE: Sig 4*60 build.
 

I'm still here. I had to set the build aside for a while. I have been working so much that I need to spend what extra time I have with the family. As soon as time permits, I'll dive back into this build. I hope you guys understand.

Gene

RE: Started my 4*60 today.
 

I don't understand the reasoning for counterbalances. They reduce the force needed to move a control surface, but modern servos are plenty strong.

I do understand increasing the size of the rudder. But the what we want is the most force with the least drag so the plane doesn't slow too much in a maneuver, and a counterbalance surface sticking out in the breeze seems like it would be pretty draggy.

I've never tried a plane with and without. Is there any evidence that the counterbalances work better than just increasing the size of the surface?

Jim