GP Tracer
 

I will be starting a Great Planes tracer in about a week and have some questions.

The horizontal stabilizer is sheeted, while the vertical is not, and only half the wing. Why? Would there be any issue with my fully sheeting these surfaces?

I will be using a Sullivan tail-wheel bracket instead of the supplied wire. Do I have to install the wire bracing balsa piece in the rudder?

I know it seems weird to be asking the problem with adding a bunch if sheeting and then asking about removing other balsa pieces, but the responses to the sheeting question will be different from the rudder issue.

The manual recommends a .40 or .46 two stroke or a .5? or .70 four stroke. Being the power hungry less than half throttle flier that I am, I was thinking of a OS .50 SX, YS .63s or a Saito .82. Will the YS lug this thing around with authority? I like having lots of power for long up lines without slowing and having to cut the maneuver short.

I like building with wood glue as it allows me plenty of time to get things right, but every kit I look at recommends CA. The stuff makes me want to hurl in large quantities. Is there a problem with wood glue in light of modern adhesives? I can get a fresh air respirator, if I have to. "Luke, I am your father Luke"

I do not like the ABS cowl. Does anyone know of a fiberglass one that will work? I would hate to avoid Vader-ville by skipping on the CA, only to need one to manufacture a glass cowl.

I think that is it for now but there will be more later.

Thanx.

RE: GP Tracer
 

I used CA to build one wing of a Sig Ultimate Fun Fly and it will be the last time for me. I prefer aliphatic resin, Titebond II to be specific. I like having the working time as you mentioned. I use CA for limited and very specific applications.

RE: GP Tracer
 

Yes, the wire brace on the tail wheel goes to the rudder.

I have 46fx with a quiet pipe on mine. It spins an 11x6 APC prop at just over 13K, running 10% fuel. It is plenty of power. A bit more than 1:1 thrust:weight. Without the pipe it would not have good vertical performance. Also, I put retracts in mine, making it a bit on the heavy side.

As I recall, there is a tendency for Tracer's to come out nose heavy. Plan accordingly. I put the rudder servo at the back, and made a compartment behind the wing to put the battery and receiver.

If I were building another I'd try to make it lighter (mine is 6 lb), and I'd get a Irivine 53 and a quite pipe. Maybe a light 4 stroke.


Here is a picture of the modifications required to fit a muffler, or header, under the fuse:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1305542

The picture shows a Jett muffler. I now have a header and Macs quiet pipe. I opened up the belly pan to create a pipe channel of sorts. It fits nicely.

RE: GP Tracer
 

I plan on using a Sullivan tail wheel bracket. The tail wheel brackets that mount to the rudder make me nervous for some reason. We have canyons for cracks in our runway, and I have seen a few of the rudder mount type fail.:eek: I will concede that the Sullivan product does not seem as responsive, my Ultra Stick tracked better than my Tiger 60. I was mainly trying to find out if that piece acted as a gusset as well as a place to secure the wire. If a gusset is required, I could easily put one in. If I sheet it, no gussets required.;)

O.S. 46 AX = 17.2 oz.
Saito 82 AAC = 17.6 oz.
YS FZ63S = 17.4 oz.
I have used Super Tigre, never again.[sm=sleeping.gif] O.S. is hard to beat for value and reliability, my Kadet Senior flies admirably with a 46 LA. I love my Saito 91, and it just gets better every day. The numbers are so close that there does not seem to be a real difference. I will probably go with the O.S. as I have never had a problem with one, even when I ran 1/8 scale buggies. The saito starts so easy, and sounds so sweet, up until I am doing a tail slide and it dead sticks. I know, keep a couple of clicks of throttle in it and you will be fine. I am the better idiot.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

RE: GP Tracer
 

I have a sullivan tail wheel on mine.... same concern as you.

A light 60 is also an option. I've read that k&b's 60's are light. Jett 60's are definetly light... but $$$$.

You can't go really go wrong with the OS 46. I'd be careful to keep the plane light.

RE: GP Tracer
 

The .46 would work but the .82 would make it rock, as in rock-et ship.

RE: GP Tracer
 

I thought I was cool with a 14X6 on my 91 in my Tiger 60, until one of my buddies showed up with his Tiger 60, with a 82, a 14X6, as many RPM's and comparable vertical. I wanted to cry.[sm=crying.gif] Of course his has had enough time to fully break in, and mine only has two gallons through it.:eek: What other excuses can I come up with?

RE: GP Tracer
 

As for your other questions, You CAN fully sheet the wing, but that would just add unnecessary weight. You can skip the Wire brace in the rudder if you're not going to be using it. Use whatever glue you like. And Fiberglass Specialties has your cowl. Their product code for it is a "GP-40"

Find it here:

http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/catalog.htm

RE: GP Tracer
 

Thanks minnflyer. I would spend more than that on materials alone. What does sheeting do for aerodynamics and predictability. I had herd that sheeting is a good thing. I can not qualify that theory as I have no idea. I figured some of the guys here might have information on whether it was a stupid idea or not. I know that I do not have the skills necessary to notice small changes in flight capability, but every little bit helps, unless it hurts.

RE: GP Tracer
 

As far as aerodynamics go you won't notice anything different with a fully sheeted wing. You will notice the excess weight that you added. And in my opinion only it makes it easier to cover. Now the downside is you will be adding plenty of unwanted weight. Now i know you won't think what's a couple of ounces. but as the sheeting gets farther and farther out on the wings the pendulum effect will come into effect. So it will be harder and harder to stop the snaps, spins heck even rolls or point rolls. thay will want to keep going and not stop when you let go of the sticks. An easy demonstration of this is grab an egg carton put four eggs in the middle and swing it back and forth in your hand. then move the eggs two on each side to the outer most point in the egg carton and swing it back and forth. you will feel a difference. now imagine that on a wing withh 55 inches. compared to the twelve or so of the egg carton. The tracer is a pretty strong plane as designed. if you really want to fully sheet the wings. you may want to explore lighter spar material. maybe with a strip of carbon fiber. to keep the strength.
Dennis

RE: GP Tracer
 

I did not think of the inertial effects of the excess weight at the tips. I wonder if it would be worth it to cut the wing tip covering on my Tiger 60 to remove the caps:eek:. Naw, it probably won't last that long anyway[>:]. I will build the Tracer according to the instructions and just over power it to get my kicks[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]. Is 18 oz of torque enough for throttle? How much torque is required for Ailerons, Rudder and Elevators. Micro servos all around, unless it is a really dumb idea:eek:. I should not think under the influence of a costume party gone boring.[&:]

The ceiling is spinning too fast.

RE: GP Tracer
 

I have been looking information on how the tracer flies.

Is it a good airplane?
What category does it perform best, aerobatic, pattern, 3d?
Which form can you get it, kit or ARF?

Thanks
PRG

RE: GP Tracer
 

More of a pattern type plane. As far as i know it is no longer made. hunt around at swap meets. If you are looking for a 40 size pattern plane great planes now has a venus.
Dennis

RE: GP Tracer
 

Your 18 oz throttle servo will work fine. I'm using Hitech HA-55s for all of mine and they have only 14 oz. This is a good decision.

I wouldn't worry at all about the weight of sheeting to the wing tips. The weight will be minimal and should have no adverse aerodynamic effects on the plane. A lot of people sheet their wings if power won't be an issue. The 4 eggs at the end of an otherwise empty carton doesn't apply here (sorry to quibble d bodary) as the weight will be evenly distributed across the wingspan. If glued correctly, you should end up with more strength. I can't remember the wing structure of the Tracer right now. If you wish to sheet them then go for it.

Tip plates will increase roll rates as well as prevent wing tip vortices.

Remember, any plane is a collection of compromises. You certainly can reduce the compromises you don't like. It isn't difficult to improve on things that you want out of the plane. The key part is "things that you want".

For servos, maybe something in the 40 oz range would be adequate. You can find servos in this range, ball bearing maybe, digitals, etc. The choices are good.

Keep the tail light as you have a long arm compared the short distance to counterbalance things with the engine. The rule of thumb that weight to the tail compared to nose is around 4:1 would be good to keep in mind with the Tracer.

RE: GP Tracer
 

A standard flight pack with an extra HS55 seems the way to go then. Now that I got my digital camera up and running again, I bought a new house and lost the cable in the move, I cannot figure out how to post pictures.

This does not seem to help as I cannot find the "Embed picture in post" box. Of course I couldn't find the icons that are used for avatars either. Anyone got a road map?

[img][/img]

It uploads fine but it doesn't make it to the post.
I must be missing something.
Anyone got a spare brain I can use?
Now I feel really stupid. (Added in edit)

RE: GP Tracer
 

Well, I started gluing balsa together today:). I am taking my time, so don't expect a ten day build. I laminated the stab pieces and joined the sheeting for the horizontal stabilizer. That's about as far as I will get until I get back from Cabo. I needed something to do while waiting for the dryer.;) Of corse I might get boored in the morning and frame up the rest of the Stab.:eek: My little dog photographs well, doesn't he.[8D]

RE: GP Tracer
 

I got back from Cabo last night and after my wife went to bed I started to tinker on the board. I got everything set up and with the parts on the plans realized that I had made a mistake when cutting the stab centers out of the die cut sheets.:( Stupid mechanic.[:@] I had to go to Michael's today and buy a 3/32 X 4 X 30 balsa sheet to make new ones. They are currently being laminated. I guess this kit is a little more involved than the Tiger was.:eek: Now I know why laser cut kits have become so popular. I also cut the plans while cutting the first piece.[:@] This morning I started to read an article by Bob Arble in the AMA magazine about kit building. One of the things he mentioned as a necessity for building was a cutting board. After I taped the plans back together I went looking for something to use as a cutting board and found a small piece of 3/4" melamine. At least my reading won't suffer as a result of this kit, just putting it into practice has proven to be the hard part, at least where I am concerned.:eek:

RE: GP Tracer
 

I must be just a little farther ahead than you are. I built the first wing half and it came out warped so I took great care doing the other one and it came out warped too. I sprayed the second one with water and weighted it down which took out most of the warp but I just wanted to warn you to take care at this step as something about the build here can go wrong.

RE: GP Tracer
 

Your warning is duly noted. I am still working on the tail feathers. I attached the second side of the stab sheeting this evening. I will let it dry overnight before continuing. Tomorrow morning should be busy as I can finish the stab and then build the fin and rudder without waiting for glue to dry. I might even get all that done before I have to go to work.

RE: GP Tracer
 

The best laid plans of mice and men are interrupted by a break in my schedule and a break in the weather. I finally got a knife edge to climb a little. I got the stab finished and will start the fin and rudder tonight.

RE: GP Tracer
 

This is my status as of when my daughter went to bed, she is being my little helper this weekend. I'll continue tomorrow after I get off work and she finishes chores.

RE: GP Tracer
 

Needs more pinholes :D

RE: GP Tracer
 

Sand, sand, sand, shape,shape, shape, sand and sand again. The tail feathers are done. On to the wing. The spars and doublers are getting attached, no dinner and a movie, kids these days. There is bunches more to do without laser cutting. Sand, sand, sand........................

RE: GP Tracer
 

The 3/8 square trailing edge is attached to the ribs with a butt joint then you have to sand it to conform to the wing contour. You might want to consider marking the exact location for the ribs using the plans then cutting a kerf in the TE into which the rear of the ribs will fit. It doesn't have to be much perhaps 1/16 inch. That would make it much more sturdy and withstand the sanding better.

Incidentally, my wood for the fuselage is like oak and the sheeting for the LE and TE are so weak you can put a finger through them.

RE: GP Tracer
 

Everybody who comments on this kit says the fuselage wood is hard. I found the same. I beleive it is (was) intentional. Hard balsa is an alternative to heavier light-ply.