RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Sure does sounds like a mess. If you follow the plans all should line up properly without issues. If the fuse and gear are that far out, I would be concerned with other critical items like the wing mounts. If these were improperly placed, you are asking for major building/alignment headaches. You might be better off as RICKSTUBBZ mentioned, buying some balsa and cutting out some new fuse doublers and parts and starting over. Likely take you less time than trying to fix up any mistakes made. Not sure if that is really what you wanted to hear.....

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Has been a little quiet in this thread, so thought I would give an update on my progress. Has been slow going as a new job has me working long hours as well as trying to juggle family life.

Top wing is completed, just need to mount the "N"-strut mounting plates. Cabane struts are mounted and soldered as well as the wing support pieces. Making the cabanes started off with frustration as it looked like they would not line up properly, but after assembly all is straight and true as required. Only issue I had was the cabane mounting tubes were a bit too long, so the stance was too wide for the upper wing mounts. Got mad and took the drill with a bit slightly larger than the brass tubes, through the fuse holes and managed to shorten them....actually worked out OK. Just have to coat the wing supports with epoxy and build up the cabanes with balsa, then off to building the lower wing. It is coming together nicely, although lots of sanding on this baby to shape parts.

With the top wing sitting on the fuse the SMP looks a little like a Citabria Pro [X(] Will post some pics soon.

Added a couple pics......

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Well...in a bit of a conundrum at the moment. Have the bottom wing framed, and was eying up how to do the aileron servo(s). Do not really care for the way the plans show mounting of the wing servo, and the fact that it will give me minimal tuning ability for differential, so was trying to figure out the dual servo arrangement. I have a couple standard servos, and they will be a tight fit. Can just get them in but getting them out may be a concern. There is little room for a proper tray, but can be fitted. May have to cut out a second panel of covering if one needs to be removed in the future, and I am not too fussy on that idea. The other option is to use a couple "micro" servos (JR MC35) I have. They are rated for 30 oz/in @4.8 volts. I am sure one on each aileron would be plenty strong....just not sure how durable these little guys would be in a larger glow bird. (they were originally intended for a .10 size plane I am building). They are much smaller and could be fitted in pretty good. The other option is to stick two servos in the wing center side by side (similar position as the plan shows) using either the micros or the standard units. This may be the easiest route. Wondering how others did dual servos on ailerons???

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Figure when the Miniplane was released "back in the day", a "good" servo was about 40 oz/in and it ran two torque rods and two ailerons.

You should have plenty of oomph with a 30 oz/in servo driving one aileron. Especially without the torque rod and any binding that it may have contributed.

The way I do ailerons is mount the servo to the hatch, butted right up against it, and then run the arm out of a slot. That way it is easily accessed and it takes up the least depth in the wing.

Don

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Thanks Don. I like the hatch idea of mounting the servo right to it.....never thought of that! [&:]

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Here is a picture. Not a good one but hope it gives you help. I took this from an old RCU post I had about adding flaps to a Senior Falcon.

http://image2-3.rcuniverse.com/e1/fo...54/40256_3.jpg

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_407059/anchors_407060/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#407060]Here's the old thread[/link]

I'll look around and see if I can find a newer, better picture from something I posted earlier.

Don

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Don,

Thanks for the pic. I have a pretty good idea how to do this now, as have done hatches before but never attached the servo right to the hatch itself. Never really thought if it until your previous post! Great idea and it will work even with a standard servo......still tight but at least gives me a much cleaner way of attaching the servo. If you have a pic of the inside of the door that would be good, if not no worries and appreciate the GREAT tip!!!!

Not sure if you can see my "Blue Hawk" in the photo (Ultimate Bipe). I did a similar mount with the wing servos, only difference is I made a "pod" that slipped in with the servo, then a small balsa sheet door covered it up with a hole for the push rod servo arm combination to stick out. Worked really well, but that wing is much larger with greater spacing between ribs. The SMP is smaller in that area, so unless I use some smaller servos, it will take a little "engineering"....but pretty sure now it can be done effectively using your suggestion.

I will likely NOT use the small MC30 servos. I am sure they are up to the task, but not comfortable with the small nylon gears that may not take the punishment of a .51 shaking things up in the front. May either buy some new small metal gear servos, or just use the standard ones and then no worries after.

Cheers,
Marko

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

I have used the Hitec 225mg's in a similar sized ultimate driving top and bottom aileron each without any problems

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Those were the ones I was thinking of if I cannot get the standards to fit in the space. Powerful little guys with strong gear train and reasonably priced.

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Just wanted to say hello. Picked up a SMP kit at a swap meet last weekend and had a boo through this thread. Lots to learn about the quirks and fixes. Glad I found it, as the tail incidence change should be a good mod on it's own. Along with that, I'll probably go with an alloy gear in place of the wire. Easier to install and should look just as good painted up.

I've a few other projects to finish first, so this may end up sitting till we all get locked inside again next winter. The Northstar is nearly complete, with the Seamaster resurrection not too far behind. Now, If I can just get the floats on the Eagle and the T600 out of the way, the wife may not scream so loud if she sees me start something else:eek:.

Traditionally, I tend to build heavy, so this should be a good test to see if I can change my tactics.

p.s. Have the CG Super Chippie kit and a BUSA EAA Bipe still in the box, so the project list never seems to get any shorter.

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Welcome to the thread Cougar429!

I hope to have my SMP flying this summer, but slow building and busy work schedule may jeopardize that due date. I know what you mean about many projects, as I have a number of kits in the queue, but slowly they will come along.

BTW - I built a CG Chippy twenty some years back. It was actually my first RC build. Turned out so nice that it won a local beauty contest and I was afraid to fly it for a couple years as was learning to fly. Had a .91 O.S. FS for power and it was a perfect match. Flew for many years, but unfortunately was involved in a mid-air which ended its life. It is an amazing plane, as it slows down to gentle characteristics, yet can be very aerobatic. You will love it. If I ever find a kit cheap at a swap will pick it up as would build one again.

Cheers!

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Well, I'm very impressed with all the builds posted here. What a tribute to the committment of time and energy to this fine hobby.

I haven't built up a plane for 20 years, but have been wanting a bipe and love the look of the SMP. This thread is an excellent preview of the process, and really helps those considering the build to decide on it. Thanks.

Being my first build in a looong time, would this be a good choice? Am I likely to run into a lot of issues that only experience would overcome, or is it really a stright forward build? My flying has improved quite a bit, so as long as the kit builds fairly true and has good flight manners I should be OK in the air. I wouldn't consider a Pitts stright off, but don't really go for the look of the Ultimate.

Many happy flights on the Smithies, folks!Thanks again!

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Hi dea2287,

As I am in the process of building one, I guess I can comment. It is not an overly difficult kit, it just does not spell everything out for the builder. If you have built before, and take your time on all the steps and reference both the manual and the plans, you should be fine. Definitely not a beginners project, but anyone with some building experience should be able to get through it. If you get stuck...there is always this thread and all the good folks here to help you out.

Good luck, and keep us posted! ;)

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

So far in my build of this kit I would say that experience will definitetly help the builder through some of the less clear (or totally undiscussed) areas. But also having good tools will make also. I went out and bought a good used 9" Delta band saw I found on Craig's list. It reallyworked wellwhen cutting out all the printed balsa parts. Also a good angle cutting tool really helps make good fittings when building the fuse sides. I did not have one of these and my workmanship shows it.
As far as being a good choice for you I'd yas sure as long as you are committed to the build and are not in a big hurry. I've been onmine for about 4 months and am not even close yet but I'm really enjoying it.

Good Luck,
Dave

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

My second hand refurbished SMP is almost ready to go.......  Can anyone advise me on how much movement I should have on the control surfaces for its first flight?<div>
</div><div>Clearly we need enough to make it fly but not too much as we do not know what to expect when its airbourne.........</div><div>
</div><div>Thanks</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

There is a lot of time and effort spent building such an airplane. You have to set the aircraft properly for flight/

CG is 4 3/8" back of the LE of the top wing where it crossed the fuselage. top view

Initial throw of el 5/8" up and down
ru 1" r & l
ail 1/2" up and down

the SMP is very responsive to input so add up some expo to smooth things up.

after some flying you can build a second high rate

Good luck, dont forget to charge the batteries.

Ray

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

If anyone has the itch and would like to scratch build an SMP, I have the building and flying manual. I also have the plan showing all parts. I cut it per building modules but perfectly usable Missing 1/2 of the top wing ( not a big deal ) I ruined it when I made pattern for my covering. Sorry.
Email me, I can send anywhere in the world.
Ray

You can see the Smith I built with this, looking at the previous pages.

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Hi, I have used regular futaba servos in the SMP, no problem.

Speaking of the HS 225MG, whow!
I built a Falcon 56, vintage, silk and dope, power is a K&B Veco 19. The completed plane weights in dry at 3 lbs and 5.5 onzs
three channels - no ailerons
I installed 2 HS 225MG for the back. Last sunday I went to maiden fly her. After two tanks of fuel to break in the engine circa 1971, the plane was filled, the engine started. Last verification of the surfaces, Bang! the alevator did not work. Shut down, sure enough the servo was buzzing., upon inspection I seen that the primary gear is plastic and stripped at the motor drive., What is the purpose of paying for metal gear if the primary is cheap plastic. ONE MORE MINUTE AND THE FALCON WAS A WRITE OFF. this happened on the ground by itself, no load of any kind!

picture of the falcon on the scale

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

I believe they isolate the motor from the geartrain that way to minimize a source of interference. Good thing you caught that on the ground. I once had high speed flutter so bad on my new Cougar it tore the gears out of the aileron servo, costing me the plane. That was a Futaba, by the way.

The fact you lost the gear nearest the motor suggests to me the servo was manually moved, perhaps exceeding the strength of that gear, or you may have just had a faulty servo. In normal operation that would be one of the lowest loaded gears in the train. You don't indicate the history, so no way to know if it was worn or previously impact damaged.

Over the years I've used quite a few different make of servos and have found the Hitecs to be on par with Futabas for many apps, including my small and large helis.

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

I have used a number of 225BB = no trouble.
These two servos were new in the box, shelved in my shop. I wanted power and safe and light weight. the 225MG was that. Now I changed my mind and I have already switched to two 225BB, used. I dont trust the MG no more.
Ray

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

nice job on your build. I built one around 1985, flew great after a shimed up the back side of top wing, didn't understand it at the time, an old timer told me to. If you go to BALSA USA website you can find the reason for the incidence.

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Update on my SMP build: Have the lower wing main structure completed. No major issues, other than a slight twist on one half as it came off the board - Ahrrrr! Managed to straighten it out before the sheeting was applied and is now perfect! Just need to build the wing tips on the lower wing and cut out the rons (hopefully this weekend have it completed - wishful think'n). Have decided to use my JR MC35 servos in the wings as I cannot get a standard servo to fit and even the 225's would be close in order to minimize exposure. I suspect they will be up to the task as I compared the ailerons to a small electric 3D Ultimate I have, and they call for Futaba S3114's (almost half the torque) to control both upper and lower ailerons which are larger than the SMP's. They seem to handle the job well, only difference is there is little vibration in the electric Ultimate, compared to what the "thumping" of the ST .51 will subject the SMP airframe to. I know the 225MG's would have been plenty powerful, so these should be adequate. I am usually not one to skimp out in that area, but I had them and they seemed to be the best fit, so will give em a try. Anyways, managed to get them in with little to no weight gain overall. Coming together nicely and more pics to come once I have the lower plank mounted onto the fuse.
:D

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Marko,

Sounds good man. I have not looked up your servos or anything. but on this plane as long as you have close to 20 OZ IN per servo, I'd expect no problem. Only worries will be banging the ailerons on the ground. Will the gears handle it? I used stock old single servo with around 40 OZ IN and never had a problem.

Also, based on my experience, this plane is built so solid it will absorb the thumping of the ST51.

For sure post some more pictures when you get a chance. Have you decided on colors and covering material?

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Rick,

My servos are rated for 30 oz/in @ 4.8V and 35 oz/in @ 6v so should be good. I think hattend (Don) made the same recommendation as you have and after thinking about it some figured they will be fine. They are referred to as "Micro" servos and are rated for glow planes, but yes I will have to be careful not to bump it around too much.

As for covering....really stumped. I am a Monokote guy (yes I know.....we all have faults...and please don't tell the WACO boys!), and can do a pretty decent job with it if I must say so. We I guess after using it for the past 20 years or so, I should be able to work with the stuff!!!! Was going to try Coverite fabric but can't seem to justify paying 3 x the amount over Monokote. Plus Coverite does not produce matching red paint anymore so may have a problem unless I can find a HS that has some kicking around...or attempt to get some mixed, but that is not always great. Thought the fabric look would make it a little more scale in appearance. Never used the fabric but heard it is easy to work with. Did try Coverite film years back and did like. I think I will revert to MonoKote with the original box cover Glen Sig colour scheme as one of the reasons I love this plane. Don't really have the time or proper facilities yet to (or at least the way I would like to) paint it, so will take the easy road. Plus some bigger scale birds in queue that will give me more practice with the paint gun in time!

Trying some new techniques with placing trim over the base cover. I typically just used a low heat, and achieved great results, but always room for improvement. Have heard of guys using Windex to set the glue, but that did not seem to work for me. Testing with Trim Solvent and Windex or soap/water mix to see if I can get a little more "working time" with the trim pieces. If anyone has a secret formula that works....I'm all ears. One way or another she will look pretty.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to my website (well nothing fancy and work in progress) which has some pics of my last project (Sukhoi SU-26) and a couple other back yard flyers that I can take off the driveway and fly behind my place. The bigger ones have to take the trip to the field. Don't mind the guy in the background, but my photographer (wife) needed something to hold the plane, and it was the only prop around. [:o] Hope to get the whole fleet of existing and past birds on there eventually.

http://sites.google.com/site/backyar.../Home/pictures

RE: Sig Smith Miniplane build
 

Marco,

That Sukhoi is sweet.[8D] Too bad I never got my hands on one of those kits. Like I need another kit to add to the list.

Last weekend my "Smith" was officially and finally retired[&o]. I removed the engine, fuel tank, and radio gear. It will now be a well used hanger queen. It earned the privilege......