RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Greetings

Gentelmen , I was wondering if you could help me with a problem . It has to do with the hinging and the finishing . My 60 is being covered in dope and Koveral , and you are familer with the construction of the Tiger at the tail surface . The Koveral is on and first two coats of nitrate are on and it leaves me with one more coat of nitrate with baby powder to fill the weave . This is my problem : To attach the tail end , I have to hing the elevater and this , is out of procedure , it will be really heard to do the finishing with the elevater attached . I plan on useing CA hings on the elevater and Robart hings on the balance of the plane

The only idea that I have is to semi-finish the elevater and the stab at the hing point , and than attache the stab to the fusaloge , followed by the fin , and than later attach the rudder when the plane will be finished . Being very careful when I paint the stab and elevater , when I paint the plane in this area , not to fill up the hing point with paint

I knew that this probem would catch-up to me and I still don t have a good solution , and I don t want to cut that main beam that the fin attaches to the tail end of the plane . I also plan on useing tri-stock for the stab and the fin to strenghten it up

I ve been whatching this thread and it is a good one , the planes look great


Cheers


Michel ( Mike ) ;)[8D]

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Just a few minor tasks completed in the recent week(s?).

Pic 1 - triangle stock to reinforce the firewall epoxied in place.
Pic 2 - bottom side of the wing glassed with the stock strip plus an additional layer of 4" wide .5 oz cloth.
Pic 3 - wing pin doubler epoxied to fuse former
Pic 4 - Wing mounted to fuse

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Pardon me for jumping in here...I've been lurking and following this thread since I am building a T60 Deluxe right now. I'm at the point of cutting out the wheel wells for the retracts. I would be interested if anybody knows where I could find a commercially available molded wheel well kit that would work with this kit? While I know I could eventually come up with a passable balsa lining as called for, I would prefer to just spring for a really nice pre-molded item...maybe something available as a replacement part that is intended for an ARF. I'm using the recommended 2 1/2" wheels with a 3" cutout (I've already made the cutout...)

Any ideas?

P.S. I liked the idea that krossk came up with in regards to dual wing pins as opposed to the single! I built the CG Protege which has pretty much the exact same wing design (minus retracts, of course) and it has a single pin. I built it as called for with a single pin and have always felt like it might be a bit of a problem down the road.... I'm paying close attention to all mods being done in this build thread!

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Welcome aboard! Please, by all means, feel free to lurk, jump in, contribute, participate - whatever thoughts, questions, or ideas you might have. It is my hope that this thread can become a resource for anyone interested in this kit. Collective wisdom almost always reigns supreme.

Unfortunately, I don't have any good answer to your wheel well question as I have absolutely NO experience with retracts. (Maybe someday, though...) The best I could offer would be to start looking for kits or ARFs that have retracts and then look to the manufacturer and see if they have parts available. I would think that perhaps some of the Top-Flite .60 size war birds are potential candidates. Another possibility might be to look for plastic bottles or cans of the right size - maybe ask a local pharmacist for discarded pill cans or medicine bottles. Possibly look on-line for specialty containers, etc. Something like that cut down to the desired depth might meet your needs.

In any case, let us know what you come up with...

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Hi Guys,
I was just wondering what engines you guys are using or planning to use in this plane. I have a Saito 91 Four stroke I was thinking of using. This is the first Tiger I've seen and will build, so I was interested in reading this thread and any other information about this plane. I like the looks of it and I was also eyeballing the 120. Are there plans for the 120? All I've seen is the ARF so far. Is there a source for the 120 plans by chance?

Thanks,
Loren

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

If you have the .91, I would not hesitate to use it. I'm using a Saito .82 in mine - I think that should be adequate, but I've lightened and modified mine some as well. There are a lot of people who report that the .91 works very well in the T60. If my .82 is underpowered, I'll definitely move up to the .91 or maybe even the 1.00.

As far as I know, there isn't anything but the ARF in the 1.20 size. Otherwise, I might be building that one instead! Overall, the Tiger is a terrific design and a great flyer for the post-trainer as well as the seasoned aerobatic pilot. It's also a very straightforward build in that sense as well.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I tend to build all of my planes a bit on the heavy side.... (Can't seem to get comfortable with that "just a dab of glue" philosphy!). Anyway, I'm planning on putting an OS .91 FX on my Tiger Deluxe. What with me building heavy and the added weight of retracts, I don't think it will be outrageous. After all, nothing in the book says you always have to run full throttle, right? :D

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I've managed to get a few minutes here and there in the shop, so here's the small steps of progress of late:

Pic 1: using my laser level to align the wing tip t/e pieces.
Pic 2: wing tip rough carved to shape. Still needs final shaping.
Pic 3-4: lower fairing attached and initial filling
Pic 5: rear former for built-up cowl
Pic 6-5: cowl former and nose ring in place for construction

I decided to make the cowl removable, so the attachnment method will be a cleat that slides over the top of the firewall and will be held down by the hatch cover. here will also be 2 4-40 screws into blind nuts at the bottom of the firewall. There will be access to the screws from the bottom as there needs to be clearance for the head to protrude anyway. This is an experimental, "design it as you build it" process, so it may work like I plan, or it may be a total disaster. Stay tuned...

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

THe cowl is beginning to take shape. I'm in the really rough stages with a lot of work ahead. I'd like to try to enclose a little more of the front since I don't have the intake issues of a 2 stroke, and I'm still trying to keep it removable. But I've already discovered that I'm going to have to enlarge the lower portion of the nose ring to allow enough movement upward to get it off. At the moment, I'll need to remove the engine to get the cowl off. I'm also going to have to add some more balsa back to the top left side - I guess I mis calculated when I cut the top edge and didn't get it symmetrical. Unfortunately I didn't notice it until after I took the pics!

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I've been a bit lax in keeping up with the pics for the cowl construction, but it's now starting to take shape. I've got all the major construction for the cowl complete - now I just need to get it trimmed to fit around the engine and do the final fill/finish work. I can't stress enough how useful a small block plane is for shaping a built-up balsa cowl. Even with the plane, I have at least 4 hours of planing and sanding in the cowl, thus far.

I've also managed to get the cockpit floor installed. However, both the rear piece and the instrument panel were somewhat undersized for the fuse, so I had to reconstruct replacement parts of the correct size.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I've basically been just lurking on this thread...but I'm learning a lot from all of you guys. I am building a T60 Deluxe with the retracts. I think I'm REALLY going to like this plane, but I can tell you: the instructions are CRAP! All they did was throw in an addendum booklet with sections where you are either supposed to replace, add to, or insert steps in the main booklet. That would be OK if they had taken the time to actually proof their construction flow. If you follow their steps verbatim, you will leave out 2 or 3 key steps. Also, the pictures are terrible. They appear to be about 5th generation copy machine copies.

Anyway...enough ranting! I thought it time to share with everyone a mod that I threw in. It's not a big deal, but I was very unimpressed with the stock mechanism for the wing bolt hold-down bracket. This is SIMPLE and I feel that it strengthens this area tremendously.

As you can see, it is a standard over-the-counter wing bolt kit (Dubro I think, but any brand will work) that is added on top of a small plywood strip (on each side, of course). The wing bolt holes end up in just about the same location...I did not measure this exactly, but it is MUCH stronger and it just made me feel a lot more comfortable with this area.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Okay I'm done with mine!

I found this thread mid march and decided to order a Tiger 2 that evening. I just flew mine again today ... so far all but the fifth flight have been deadsticks, but I think the engine is getting better. Maiden flight was with a completely red airplane just 30 minutes after gluing in the aileron hinges :-) I like to move things along quickly when possible. Boy this kit went together quickly! Some of the parts didn't fit together exactly, but with a bit of coaxing and a lot of sanding, everything smoothed up quite nicely. I couldn't wait for epoxy, so the whole aircraft is done with thin CA and medium in some places. The rear fuselage doesn't seem bad with CA as some were suggesting; maybe since I sanded the parts to fit nicely, the CA was able to work its magic. I did have to bend the main gear aft about 3/4" measured at the axles. At all but the farthest forward CG setting, the plane was verrrrry light on the nose gear. Now after bending the gear and moving the CG aft a bit, the elevator trims out very level and the plane doesn't sit on its tail. It sure tracks straight. I am happy with the performance. The stock rudder doesn't hold a knife-edge across the sky, but an OS .61FX is plenty of engine to go straight up for pretty much forever. I don't think a .91 is needed unless you just want to speed up at the expense of not being able to slow down for landings. I can't really comment on engine-on landings because mine keeps quitting, so I pretty much have to put the nose down and set up for a landing. For what it's worth, I have to keep in mind setting up a normal approach with enough space to burn off altitude even at dead stick. What else. Hm. Oh performance in the sky is great. It just goes where you point it without looking like a dart. The ailerons and rudder are plenty effective as stock. The elevator has enough authority to push outside loops with ease, so no complaints there either. I have done several rolls and hammerheads followed by swooping in for a high-speed pass across the runway. So far I've only done one snap roll because my Rx battery came off its velcro as a result; I'll have to secure it better than it was.

Anyhow, thought I'd post a little report too.

Dan

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I think I've now got all the major construction completed on the fuse and cowl. The cowl is finish-cut to fit the engine and the forward hatch is installed. The throttle linkage and fuel/vent lines have been run through the firewall. Now it's on to the sanding and then back to the wing.

Pic 1. Finished cowl with engine, muffler, and spinner installed.
Pic 2. Side view of same.
Pic 3. Bottom view showing linkage and internals.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Kross, It's coming along great. One thing I reccomend is put on on the CG machine before you cover it I ended up 7lb's and cg was
6" from LE. It took 8 more OZ of weight to get to 4". Being I had already covered I couldn't lighten the tail anymore.

I still haven't had a chance to maiden (work, chores, family and weather, holding me up) hopefully will get it flying Saturday

Here is the final pic after fully completed.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Thanks, I was planning on getting the externals assembled before even mounting the servo tray. I've got plenty of room up front for battery and such. I can easily see it being tail-heavy as planned with these mods, but then I thought the same with my SSE and it was spot-on.

I can totally relate to the schedule delays. I had really hoped to have it ready by spring, but that is going to be a real long shot with my upcoming commitments. I still haven't even got the first flight of the year in yet:(:(

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

krossk,
i hear ya buddy. i also have been swamped with the kids, honey do's and work. ( i travel all over this beautiful country of ours) i have managed a little time on the bench here and there though, but not much. i will go out to the shop here a little later and get some pics of what i have got done. so far i have got the retracts blended in and sanded down, along with the rest of the wing which is all most done. i still have'nt touched the fuse though.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Kross, looks like the maiden of the tiger will be tomorrow, I have a masters pilot taking it up for me. I'll post how she flies.

Flew awesome even at close to 8lbs she pulled vertical and was able to roll in the upline, very little trim for level flight
clipped wings made the roll rate fast but it is very controllable. I am taking it to a pattern competition in a few weeks.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Hello all,

I am building a Tiger 60 kit. Putting retracts and flaps on it and a Saito .91 for power. I've been watching this thread for some time and am interested in how yours flew. I am also increasing the aileron, rudder, and elevator area. Will keep you posted on the results if you are interested.

Travis

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I've been chomping at the bit to get back to the build and have only been able to get some sanding done lately. Tomorrow is the first real opportunity to spend on the hobby I've had in the last month. If the weather cooperates, I'll spend it at the field flying first of the season) If not, I'll spend it in the shop.

That's great to hear how the shorter wing flies - I'm still hoping to have mine done and available for the majority of the season. But it always takes me a lot longer to finish one than I think it should.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Well, after a couple of decent weekends to fly and wrapping up the spring "weekend commitment schedule", I'm starting to get back on track. Unfortunately, I've been a bit lax in the build documentation. I've got the fuse sanded and all of the control surfaces hinged and beveled. (BTW, I'll also add my positive opinion on the GP Slot Machine - that thing is slicker than a hot knife through butter! If you use CA hinges, it's well worth the price of admission.) I also have attached the H-stab and V-stab to the fuse and am now starting to plan for control linkage and servo location.

Pic 1-2: Stab mounting after the epoxy has cured.
Pic 3: Tail with control surfaces temporarily attached.
Pic 4: Close up of top fairing between tail feathers. (Tri-stock still to be added below H-stab.)

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Ok, so a month goes by without blinking... but it hasn't been totally non-productive. Even though the bulk of my hobby time has been getting to know my SSE at the field, I've still managed to get a bit of progress made on the Tiger. I started to work on setting up the aileron linkage when I realized that I built the servo mounts in different locations between the left and right wing panels - DOH! So I had to completel R&R the right servo mount. With that taken care of, I was able to set up the aileron linkage. I drilled the ailerons to take a 3/8" dowl plug to serve as a hard-point for mounting the DuBro control horn. From there, it was a simple matter to solder up the linkage (Pic #1).

Then it was on to the mounting and linkage for the tail surfaces. I had decided to use pull-pull for the rudder and independent linkage on the elevator. The rudder servo needed to be offset by 3/8" in order for the elevator rods to not interfere with the rudder cables. (Pic #2) I then added the same hard-points for the DuBro hardware on the rudder & elevator and connected the linkages. (Pic #3) I ran Sullivan Golden Rods through the fuse (Pic #4) and utilized some left-over cable from a DuBro Pull-Pull kit with 2-56 threaded solder ends silver-soldered to the cables.

With everything installed and assembled (Pic #5), then came the moment of truth. I fully expected it to balance in the typical Tiger 60 tail-heavy fashion. I was pleasantly surprised (if not totally astonished) to discover that it balanced almost dead center in the recommended range. (Pic #6)

With one final finish sanding, I should be ready to start covering soon.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Well, I'm finished with mine but all is not well! Like you, krossk, I was amazed that mine balanced very near the center of the stated range. However, when I tried my maiden flight yesterday I almost lost it on takeoff. As soon as it broke ground on a VERY long (intentional) takeoff roll, the tail started sagging as if it were tail heavy. I have an OS .91 FX up front and it was at full throttle. It started wallowing left & right before I could chop the power and try to get control to let it settle down into some tall grass at the end of the runway (asphalt). There is no question that I had plenty of takeoff speed.

Now, it's possible that the engine may have sputtered & lost power...at this point the plane was so far down the runway I could not hear what it was doing, and it happened so fast I'm not sure I totally have it straight in my mind, but I've had lot's of problems with this engine in the past. I really thought I had it squared away. And then again it may have had nothing to do with the engine...I just don't know.

I'm looking for anybody that can tell me what you have your T60 balanced at and have good flight characteristics. Mine was right at 4" which is well within the stated range of 3-3/4 to 4-3/4 back from leading edge. However, at that balance point it sure is light on the nose wheel! A witness to my attempt (very knowledgeable flyer) says he thinks my T60 is tail-heavy...and the way it acted certainly seems to bear that out...but a balance recheck shows me still right at 4".

I'm open to suggestions!

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Wow - that's a bit unnerving.
Glad to hear you were able to abort and recover without damage. I too would be interested in verifying balance points, given this.
I'll most certainly recheck the balance after covering, regardless.

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

Hi
Good day Gentelmen ;)
Rcurtis , youre report is good reading . I ll be takeing out my Tiger Deluxe this week , I also have an OS 91 FX (with remote needle valve ) , going into my craft . The only mods that I made was , I added an extra ply to the fire wall and added flaps , other than that , it is stock . You didn t mention if you did you re C/G with the retracts up or down ? I was told that it should be done with the retracts down ? You also did you C/G at 4 inches . If memory serves me , thats more towards the more difficult setting ? Since I m not a pro flyer yet , I plan on useing the more rearward setting Also I would like to know what kind of trouble you have had with youre OS91 FX ? I also build my planes on the heavy side , I weighed my plane last week and it came in at 8 LBS-8OZ , but thats without the battery pack , I m waiting for the final balance ( C/G ) to add the battery . By the way , I am planning on removeing the baffle from my muffler , and will be useing a 14x7 APC prop . Hope to hear another report from you , as I will do the same .

Krossk , Wow , youre plane looks great , I love the control links that you have added to youre plane , and youre front end looks great , I m sure youre plane will fly great

Thanks

Cheers

Mike ;)[8D]

RE: Tiger 60 Build Thread
 

I would thing that balance on the deluxe kit would be checked in the most tail-heavy configuration - that being with the retracts up.
The mains are pretty much negligible since there is no fore-aft movement. The nose gear moves weight rearward in the up position. It's the same theory as weighing a plane with an empty fuel tank. The farther back the CG, the more unstable the plane will become. As the saying goes, a nose heavy plane flies poorly, a tail heavy plane flies ONCE!

Thanks for the positive comments. I hope to get started covering soon and get it in the air yet this summer. If it flies as well as my old Tiger 2, I'll be very happy.