RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Where can I get the Dupont?  I havent seen it in any hobby catalogs.  </p>

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Steven,The DuPont is an auto paint only available at an auto paint store. It's really for the professional painter, so I would use caution. I've used it on cars, not models. It's great paint, but costly and dangerous to use without an air tank. PPG is also an auto paint. These paints are used a lot by the turbine guys, but not so much by the average modeler. Sensei is way above the average modeler!

pmw

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Here is an example of covering with Kraft paper.
It is a wing repair for my 33% Cub, that had built up wings with nylon cloth covering, primed and painted.
The repair wings are made of low density foam, reinforced with spruce spars and outlines. Covering is done with floor board paint (PU-based), which is water thinnable. The paint is thinned quite a lot, and is used to soak kraft paper strips. The wing foam is saturated with base paint, non-thinned.
After soaking the paper is completed on one side, it is applied on the wet paint on the core, and a cloth is used to squeegee any air bubbles out. Then the outside of the paper is soaked with thinned paint and the whole lot left to dry well.
This is an excellent base for spackle and finish with normal household paint that will last for years. It is light, and adds a tremendous amount of strength. The hardened impregnated kraft paper (90 grams/m2) has about the properties of electronics printed cirquit board, just thinner.
Repair of this constroction is very easy. Just cut out the damaged part, fill in with new foam, cover with kraft, spacle and paint.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

I checked with my local body shop guy here today.  I have given him alot of work in the past and I trust him to give me an honest answer.  He informed me about the high price of clear coat.  He also told me where he gets it from so maybe I can buy it in smaller quantities than he gets.  It sounds like I should be able to buy the Dupont there as well. 
I have never painted an auto before but I have worked in hangers where large Boeings (727, 757, 747) were being painted.  I assure you all I will take the necessary precautions.  I am going on vacation later this week so all I will do this week is prime and sand, sand, and sand some more. 

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Trust me guys, Dupont is much easier to work with than PPG, I have used many systems over the years and the Dupont is more forgiving than the rest of them, it is so good that I wrote this system into my process specifications for finishing of all full scale composite products that my company has produced for over 14 years with a 0% reject rate from my customers. Best of luck to you on your projects...

Bob

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0% is incredible. 

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

I've used PDG on paint jobs of my cars in the garage. Very difficult. I will say this, there has to be an easier way. I've never used DuPont. It would be interesting to see the difference. Judging by those pictures of Bob's airplanes DuPont just scored a couple quarts of paint the next time I need to touch something up.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

        I went to the local auto parts store today and they mixed me a couple of pints of their brand paint.  I mixed it with their thinner and sprayed my first coat of metallic blue.  I am pretty happy with the results.  I started this thread to get info on covering with fabric and painting.  After reading TONS of info all over RCU I can say I've learned alot.  And I believe I will never go back to monokote.  This being my first fabric and paint model, it definatly could get better.  I knew the imperfections would show and they did.  But it being a learning project, I am OK with that. 
         The bottom ine is that I am very happy with the fabric covering.  What I did learn is that next time I will use a fabric that has its own adhesive.  I am not crazy about Stix-it.  I stripped my vert stab and recoverd it after the first try.  I wasnt happy with my overlapping.  I also learned that hairspray on fabric makes it so much easier to cut to size.  And Minwax polycrylic works great as well (in place of dope).    So if you are wondering if you should try something other than monokote, give fabric a try.  Read thru Kit Building and other forums to find the info on painting.  Its all here.  Lotsa options available and I bet most all of em work.  Fabric is more work than monokote....but this is a hobby to me and none of it is actually work.  Good luck to you all.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

One last thing to add.  I just weighed the a/c.  Great Planes puts it at 8-9 pds.  I used the digital bathroom scale and weighed myself first.  My scale is in 10ths.   With Koverall, 6 coats of Minwax polycrylic, and 3 coats of latex paint my PT60 comes in at exactly 8 pds.  So if you do it right, fabric and paint does n ot come in any heavier than recommended.  Good luck to all you guys out there who want to switch from monokote.  It really wasnt that much more work so go for it!!!

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Andrewmc asked this question in post 17, on the first page of this thread regarding the coverage of yellow Solartex:

"Also I have covered the wing and the sheeted section in the centre shows through, should I apply a coat of paint over the covered wing?
Last question, , to prevent this from occuring on the fuselage should I paint the sheeted areas before covering withthe solartex."

I have the same issue with the yellow Solartex but nobody answered his question unless I missed it. Does anyone have a suggestion to hide the balsa, short of painting the entire airplane?

Chuck

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

another convert, i love it. i can't even find my monocote iron to patch an arf i own.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

You are a month or so ahead of me in the process. Other than the StickIt, what other tips can you provide for a first time Koverall user. I have StickIt but also Nitrate dope and I understand I can use just dope if I wanted to. I too heard about hair spray on the fabric to cut it. Any specific kind. I asume the aerosol spray kind and not the squirt pump. :)
I bought a set of Fiskars spring loaded scissors. Hopefully they do the cutting nicely. Any info would be appreciated and pics of the process would be awesome.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

I just bought a digital cam so I do not have any pics of the process.  I will have for my next build. 
The hairspray is as you said...the aresol type.  I just used some scissors my wife has and the cut with no problems.  Some really good sharp scissors would be an asset tho. 
The thing I wasnt to happy about Stix-it  for was the overlap.  But after peeling off my vertical and re-doing it, I learned how to make that a non-issue.  The precise cut allowed with the hiarspray also cures that problem.  I also made the initial mistake of just applying Stix-it to areas where I thought I wanted the covering to stick.  In hindsight I would cover the entire model.  I have some areas around lightening holes where the Koveral looks like it is over an open bay, when in fact there is solid structure underneath.  You cant tell it now that I have painted  it, but I know it is there.   
A small foam brush from Lowes will give you the 1/4 to 1/2 in overlap you need. 
Be sure to allow the Stix-it time to dry before applying the Koverall.  And be sure your iron is only hot enough to seal and not shrink.  That is pretty critical.  I did not use dope anywhere so I do not no any of its properties.  I cannot say if it can be used in place of Stix-it.  I thought dope was to be used as a sealer for the Koverall after it is fully applied and shrunk to size.  
In place of dope I used Minwax Polycrylic.  It is water based and evaporates fast.  You can apply 3 coats inside of 2 hours.  
I used 220 grit paper to sand after the 3rd coat.  I applied 6 coats final.  I applied a coat and let it dry overnight before sanding.  The seams are gone at this point.  You can see, but not feel them.  
I used a spray can primer from Lowes.  Rustoleum.  I then sanded with 600 grit.  Alot of the primer came off.  
I went to an auto parts store here locally that mixes their own laquer paint.  I bought 1 pint metallic blue and 1/2 pint yellow and a can of thinner.  They suggested thinning  to about 25%.  I used a compressor I have with a paint gun (again from Lowes).  It was a small gun.  Only hold around 1/2 pint.  They have many sizes so look for their smallest gun.   I tested my finish with glow fuel and it stayed on after a 4 hour soak.  I was gonna spray a final coat of clear coat but since my paint appears to be fuel proof I decided against it.  I sprayed 3 coats of the laquer and it shines with a nice gloss. 

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

I am sure Koverall is one of those things that you just have to do it to get a feel for how it applies. The rounded wingtips on my Cub have me worried. Khodges and Stickbuilder have a good writeup somewhere on the forums and I'll be sure to read through that once more.
As far as Nitrate dope and StickIt goes, from what I have read, you can apply 2 coats of Nitrate Dope over the entire airplane and it acts as a bonding adhesive. You dope the seams. What did they use prior to stickit??? I think dope is the traditional method.
Thanks for the walkthrough. I plan on using Nitrate dope instead of the Minwax but if the fumes bother me too much I will likely go with Minwax. The color finish is a latex gloss enamel. I will for sure need to fuel proof.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Hey Showtime, if you can pleae post pics and keep the thread informed about your covering progress.  Good luck pardner.

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Okay guys...after my Super Monokote application experience today [:'(] (read Monokote now residing in trash can) I need to try the paint "way". Trouble is my memory has a lot of "gray hairs" in it. So..I was wondering if you folks that do such a nice job with the Koverall could actually list the steps as you do them, product names, and, include how much you thin a particular product, all in one post so that old folks like ME :D[8D]:) can have the info in one place so it can be copied off as a sheet to follow in the shop. Can you help me out with a "one stop" instructional listing...PLEASE?

Soft landings.

Joe

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Hello Waco Brother,
There are more ways to apply the fabric than you can shake a stick at, here is my tried and proven prefered method.

I use Sig Nitrate dope to attach the fabric(Sig Koverall). I thin the dope approx 25% with Laquer thinner. Apply 2 coats to the airframe where you want to attach the fabric and lightly sand with 400-600 paper. Cut the fabric several inches oversized all around start at one end and brush a coat of dope thru the fabric to attach the fabric. This will activate the dope that you applied to the wood structure. I prefer to use my finger and rub the dope into the fabric to assure I am getting a good bond. After the 1st edge has dried move to the other end and pull the fabric fairly tight to remove as much of the wrinkles as you can. Attach that end the same way. Go back each side and attach them keeping as many wrinkles out as possible. Once that has dried I brush a coat of dope along the fabric where I want to trim it, this will keep it from fraying. After the faric has been trimmed dope the edge down. Now you have one side completed flip it over and repeat overlaping onto the 1st side.
Once I have the airframe covered and the edges sealed down and everything is dry then I shrink the fabric with an iron of the heat gun. The Koverall shrinks very well. Once the fabric is shrunk I use MinWax PolyCrylic to fill the weave. I thin this approx 25% with water and brush it on using foeam brushes. After the 2nd coat I lightly sand with 600 grit paper and after each coat after that. 4-5 coats should fill the weave. Pay special attention to the seams, add a little more PolyC to the seams if necessary(they will dissapear).
I then apply a couple coats of Dupli-Color High Fill Primer, you can find this at most auto-parts stores and some department stores. It dries fast and sands easily. Once the primer is dry give it a good sanding, look for any piholes in your covering(fill them if necessary).
You are now ready for paint, I have tried two methods and they both worked great.
Latex: I use Behr Semi-Gloss Latex purchased from Home Depot, it is about $15 a quart and you can get it mixed to any color you want. Thin the latex with blue windshield washer fluid(cheap stuff) 40% and add Floetrol(purchased at Home Depot) it helps the paint flow. I apply the paint with an HVLP spary gun. 3 light coats should get you a nice finish. If you are using glow fuel you will need a fuel proof clear such as from Nelson's Hobby Specialties.
The other paint I used was Krylon Spray paint, this worked very well and is a bit easier. I applied this to my 25% Waco and it turned out great. The Krylon is gas proof, not sure about glow fuel.
I am attaching pics of my Waco(Krylon Paint and my Cub (Latex Paint)
Any Questions Just ask!!
Anthony

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

THANKS Anthony!! I knew you'd help this 'ole guy. Only a couple of thoughts: 1) the Koverall goes on dry?; not dampened as we use to do with silk 2) Any problems of note over open areas such as wing bays, etc.?

BTW that is one fine looking WACO in your first photo and speaks highly of your painting/covering talents. I have the smaller PICA WACO, still in the kit box, awaiting a nice finish like yours. I am beginning to think painting is the way to go and if I can just get started in the right direction I know I can improve throughout future builds. A big thanks again, my friend, for your thoughts and assistance.

Soft landings.

Joe

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

The Koverall goes on dry!!!


NO problems over open bays,
You need to pay special attention over sheeted areas, if the balsa is not sealed good the balsa will absorb your filler out of the Koverall leaving pin holes in your finish. The whole process sounds more difficult than it really is and the results are worth every bit of effort that you put into it. If you are going to add ribt stitching details I would do that before you add the PolyC, it helps to belnd in the rib stitch tape for a more scale effect.
I will be covering my AMR 33% Waco with Koverall and I will post pics of the entire process to give eveyone an idea of what all is involved.
Later!!
Anthony

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WacoNut,

When you say "Krylon Spray paint", is that in a spray can or do you use your own sprayer?

Chuck

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Anthony: Just curious...can you cover a Sig Astro Hog fuselage with one piece of Koverall on the bottom and one piece of Koverall draped over the top and onto both sides (to eliminate fuselage side seams) or would I be wanting to cover the fuselage in four pieces? (Damn..I HATE IT when I have to show everyone what I don't know....:eek: ) LOL

Soft landings.

Joe

RE: COVERING & PAINT!!!
 

Chuck,
The paint is Krylon Spray paint, it is available at Wally World and the new paint has a fan spray tip that works very well. The key is to spray in light coats and apply the same ammount of paint over the entire plane to keep from getting any change in tint.

Joe,
I covered my Waco fuse with 2 pieces as you described, I would try to do your Astro Hog the same way. If you apply the filler( Dope or PolyC) properly to the fabric your seams will all but disspear and all the iron on covering guys will be jealous of your finish.
Later!!
Anthony

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Anthony..if that two piece technique works on my Astro Hog, as swell as it did on your WACO,...I'M GOING TO BE A CONVERT!!:)

Soft landings.

Joe