Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">I had the good fortune of purchasing a Byron 51 Deluxe kit about 1 month ago in the boxes and never even taken out of its original Byron Boxes. I am going to make a lot of changes to the original design to bring it up to current technology. This kit is the two piece wing, Q42 engine with retracts.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">This is going to take some time to make all the changes I want and I thought I might have more enthusiasm in spending time building if I had a thread I needed to report to and update.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">My plan is to upgrade the aircraft while maintaining its original reduction drive and 4 blade prop system. The upgrades I have planned are:</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>1.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Replace the Q42 with a modern more powerful engine. Probably a 50 size but modifying the reduction unit to except the newer drive unit.</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>2.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Placing two aileron servos in the wings instead of the single servo unit as shown in the plans</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>3.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Installing the tail wheel retract</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>4.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Fiber glassing the entire wing surface to include all control surfaces. Plans call for half glassed wing and covered surfaces</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>5.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Replacing the 16oz fuel tank with a 20-24oz</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>6.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Beefing up the engine mounts and inside the fuselage with a little more fiberglass in the weak areas</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>7.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Full paint on the model / no covering</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>8.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Eliminating the Nyrod and replacing them with stiff push rods</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>9.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Bringing the axles on the retracts in line with the leading edge of the wing for better ground performance</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>10.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Installing the Spectrum 7 channel radio</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>11.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Replacing the original plastic 4 bladed props with custom made balanced carbon fiber blades thus eliminating any flattening of the pitch with the newer drive unit power output.</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>12.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Balancing the entire reduction drive and spinner to eliminate most of the vibration problems inherent with the kit</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>13.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Replacing the original clamps and rubber holding the engine drive shaft to the pulley shaft with a custom turned balanced aluminum single shaft from the engine to the drive pulley</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in"><span>14.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Installing a 7 second 180 degree servo for scale retraction of the gear and doors</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Yes, this is my quest. I never said I was a smart guy, just delirious with envy over this Warbird. I have built an engine mount and have begun running and testing the drive unit. I have posted a video of its progress on YouTube located at <font color="#800080">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh8nwgm5lPk</font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">If nothing else I should be able to keep most people entertained with my eccentric quest. I will post videos and pictures as I progress and I could sure use some insight and ideas from you guys. This is going to be a lot of work but I expect the journey to be a lot of fun.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">I have decided that I would like to paint the aircraft to replicate Bald Eagle. I have included some pictures of this outstanding aircraft.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Heres some pics of the new kit. I checked the shipping date of this model and it says Oct 1986. Shes going to be 23 years old in two months. Wish me luck.

Oh, and I just had to add Rocky Dog, his my faithful field buddy and won't leave the garage if I am working on a plane. Thought he might need some credit too.


INSERT&lt;After some different post on this thread and a little investigation it was determined that the engine in this kit is the Q35&gt;</div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

How about some more close up photos of the engine/prop drive setup. It has peaked my curisority a bit.Some details of the drive arangement also, please.

Don

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Here are some close ups of the drive unit I have mounted on the test stand and a scanned copy of the Installation and Removal Document. The only difference is that my unit doesn't have the Idler pulley. They eliminated that pulley prior to my kits production.

The reduction drive allows you to swing the the huge 4 bladed prop at 3000 RPM to give you that real 51 prop whoosh sound in flight not to mention that great big 4 blade look.

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

OMG

yout timimg is just great:)

look at my P51 Byron but with the 1 piece wing: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90.../anchor/tm.htm


can you please scan the manual and email it to me ? i dodnt have any tec data on this model

i will shared any future hands-on that i will get on this babay with you...:)

thx

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

:D:Dyour so neet and tidy - this is amazing

the engine test stand is just brilliant


does the dog do your loundry?...please tell me how:)

:D

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">I scanned the manual for the kit in PDF format but the only way I could get enough resolution was to raise the pixel count to 300. There are about 25 pages and this turned into a 20 Meg file. In order to make this available to everyone I had to upload it to an FTP site.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">All you have to do is click on the link and hit download. It&rsquo;s a pretty good resolution but I had to play with the contrast and lighting a bit to make it readable. Just print it out and you now have the 1986 revised addition of the Byron P-51 Instruction Manual.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Someone owes me a bottle of Crown Royal Select after all this.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt"><span style="color: #009999">https://download.yousendit.com/MnFqTGswNkdlM1EwTVE9PQ</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">Fred Culbertson</span></div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">The neat and tidy thing is just a facade brother. It took me an hour to clean things up before I took Pictures. Rocky Dog isthe best buddy you could ever find. He won&rsquo;t do windows or laundry but he will fetch me a cold one if I share it with him.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">He was lying on the concrete floor just to hang with me so I got him some old towels and a basket to lie around in.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">I am in the Rodeo business and have never really had any use for little dogs. This guy was my daughters and for some reason we just had a Bromance, as my kids love to tease me about. He goes on tour with me and never leaves my side. Bulls and horses don&rsquo;t affect him much and he has become our RC clubs little mascot. He has a club membership and his own AMA number.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Someday I will have to build him a full (little dog ) scale plane to cruise in.</div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Hi Fred,

Very good to talk with you tonight. Looks like you have this thread well on it's way. I like your list of mods and agree with your plans, but I was wondering about the replacement drive shaft. Do you think the flexible nature of the hose coupling in the drive system serves a purpose other than absorbing minor alignment issues? I am just wondering if it might provide some type of necessary shock absorber function. Testing of a custom solid shaft will answer that question, but I wonder if vibration or durability will be improved or degraded by removing the semi-flexible coupling with the engine. I am no engineer so I have no idea, just wondering.

I envy your gear, mine are the original air up, spring down affairs. You are lucky to have the air up/air down arrangement. Those brass air cylinders should be more durable than the 30 year old brittle plastic ones that came with my kit.

Keep Rocky Dog in plenty of cold ones and have him keep snapping on the pictures as you work on this project.

Cheers,
Forest

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">I was thinking the same thing on the drive shaft Forest.There has to be a good reason for the rubber adapter. It could be there for engine protection in case of a crash or to be able to adapt the different engines they used (or planned on using).

IT could also be there to help with any slap knot at low RPM to help reduce that vibration problem or keep that low RPM SK from affecting the engine bearings. In any case we are going to find out. I do have an e-mail out to Don Muddiman and Dave Nalley to see if they can get me an e-mail address to one of the Original Byron guys that built a boat load of these things. That will certainly answer a lot of questions. I know they had some modifications that were not for public knowledge.

I might have to contact my old army buddy. He is currently working for the FBI in Washington DC. This is a very important highly classifiedmission we are on, I mean, they wouldn't consider his investigation into finding the Byron engineers a miss appropriation of fundsor manpower. Right? This is important stuff. They do work for us , tax dollars and all. I don't find this request to be a huge commitment in assets or resources to find these guys. Uh, I think I just heard a knock at the door. Umm,I have to go now. I might be a little late making mynext post.</span></div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

how about this one for the little guy:

http://www.flyingthingz.com/products/doghouse.html


do u ride bulls and horses?

we dont have any rodeo in israel

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

I have had a Byron P-51 single wing, no reduction gear kit in work for a few years, intend to finish it this winter. I have all control surfaces and wing glassed, fuselage complete, just working on control linkages, pneumatics, etc. I'll watch your progress to keep me motivated this winter!
Regards,
Mark

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Have you checked to see if the eng. you have is indeed the Quadra 42. I think most of the one piece wing that you have came through with the Quadra 40's . The newer 2 piece wings had the Quadra 42. From your pictures you have the earlier 1 piece wing. I cannot remember the way you can tell but I do know that one of them has a 2 ringed piston and the other has 1 ring. I have built many of the BYRON P-51's over the years and I still have 2, one with the 1 piece like yours and tnewer 2 piece still in the box. They also came out with the MUSTANG 50 eng. in the later ones. IT would help get a few hundred more rpm if you switch the coil to a G-38. I did that on the one I fly and it did make a difference at first I did not think so but after a few more runs the eng. picked up approx. 300 rpms. If you have any questions please feel free to ask.


thanks bob

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

I assume you used the g38 mag on the Quarda engine? If so tell me more, I have a 40 that I'm looking for a few more rpm.

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

I honestly don't know what engine is in mine and I can't find any information that would tell me how to find out. I was guessing it was the Q42.

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

I called the folks from Quadra a few years back and they were the ones that told me about the rings were the only way to tell other then actually measuring. Yes I used the module from a G-38 for my Quadra it just bolts right on, no modification needed.

thanks bob

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">I have looked at the engine that came with this kit. It has two rings on the piston. Anyone know what size it is.</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>A.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Been out of town for the last week but I am back at the table to complete the 51.
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>B.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Retract assembly complete. I found a really good video about using AC compressor oil to maintain and lube the interior seals and help with eliminating air leaks. <font color="#800080">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxUGVuI42MI</font>
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>C.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Ailerons and Flaps built. IF you notice I have a blue piece of tape on the foam part of the aileron. I used the 3M product to safeguard the foam while sanding the triangle stock. Its really tough stuff and has the perfect adhesion. I also us it to hold things together while glue is setting. Epoxies don&rsquo;t stick to this tape very well. Makes life a little easier.
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>D.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Cut off Aileron tips, glue to wing and sand and shape wood corners.
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>E.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Cut out for Aileron counterweight completed. Foam is easy to cut. I did make a mistake here. The plans ask to start the cut 2 inches from where the nylon hinge bracket will be located. I have included a picture of where it is supposed to start. I had to re-cut and glue back a 1 inch piece of foam. (Stupid) That&rsquo;s what I get for not paying attention to detail.
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in"><span>F.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>Cut out for retracts complete. Don&rsquo;t make the mistake I made on this. In the first steps of the plans it tells you to sand a smooth surface on the wing to install the gear mounts. THIS IS FOR FIXED GEAR ONLY. It was too late. I sanded one wing. The dotted line to follow as you cut out the foam for the retracts was eliminated. I was lucky to have the other wing intact so I cut it out first and traced the cutout onto the second wing. Whew&gt; I started to cut it out with a metal cutting small tooth blade but a new exacto blade is the ticket here. Very easy. I traced all the lines with a fine point black marker to help insure the cuts were straight.
</div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin: 0in 0in 10pt 0.5in"><span>G.<span style="font: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span>NOW I HAVE A PROBLEM: Plans ask for 4 wing hold down pockets. Two front and two rear. I only have one of each. Other two are missing. Rocky said he never saw them either. (I will be checking hims feces later tonight) I even went back and checked the original pictures I posted and they aren&rsquo;t their either. Hmmmm. The search is on. Anyone know where I can order some or am I on a mission to make them?</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Plane and plans are very easy to understand so far and I am going to continue building while I ponder the missing wing hold down pockets.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Tonight I am installing the Nylon Bearing and Torque Tube Support, Hinge Covers, and Counterbalance. (If I can learn how to read and stop making stupid mistakes.)</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Rocky is fast asleep. He was up all night sanding the ailerons and flaps. Good dog.</div></div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Hi Fred, looking good! I don't have any answers for you, but I do have a question. On those wing bolt pockets you are looking for, do they just glue in snug against the foam at the bottom of the well? I ask, because when I pull mine tight the wing sinks in around one of the rear bolts. I did drill mine out to fit 1/4x20 bolts and pulled an aluminum insert out of one of the holes. I put it back in, but wondered exactly what I was dealing with, since I didn't build the wing.

Forest

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

No they don't They have four sheets of fiberglass installed to secure them. I haven't bothered reading the rest of the instructions since I couldn't find the other two but its quite a little process. As soon as I install them I will give you plenty of pics throughout the process. This is all done prior to fiberglassing the wing. I wouldn't want to have to dig them out. I don't think you could without doing a lot of damage to the foam.

On another note, I was beginning to cut out the hinge covers with the included hardwood. You need a 1/32 x 14 inch x 42 inch piece and that only gives you a half inch to spare to make all four wing covers for two flaps (top and bottom) and two ailerons (top and bottom). I have a 1/32 x 12 inch x 40 inch in the kit. I don't know if this was a mistake or its used for something else but I hope this isn't a preview of things to come. They either put in the wrong size or its missing. Off to the hobby shop.

Fred

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Installed the bearing, push rod and Aileron Counterweight. According to the manual it will help eliminate any Aileron flutter. I plan on using a bigger engine along with some carbon blades so I opted to install the countrweights.

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">I was able to verify that the engine in this kit is the Q35. It has two rings on the piston. </font></p>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

If you decide to use the Quadra 35 then I would get the g-38 module and add it to your eng. I had one with the Quadra 35 and it barely has enough power the g-38 module will help.I was a little surprise that it has that eng., when looking at your photo's I noticed you have the later generation retracts. Normally that indicated a later model with the Quadra 40. Make sure when you add the counter balances to the airleons to glue them good, I had them come loose afetr a lot of use and they will bind the airleons up.

thanks bob

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Hey Bob, Yeah I heard that too with the Counterweights. I was even considering cutting a slot from the top of the Aileron to install the threaded rod for the weights. I would make a 90 bend (or close to it) in the rods and lay them into the aileron. Then replace the cut out portion. THis would guarantee the counterweights couldn't pull out.

Still scratching my head on this but you are not the first person to tell me this. Seems like something that should be addressed up front.

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

Actually if you are going to use a servo for each aileron you really do not need the counter balance . That setup was only for the original 1 servo in the center p-51. Unless you sre going to put a larger eng. for more speed then you might want to use them. The P-51 with the Quadra 40 in the single wing with the g-38 module flys it really nice. A lot of guys today want to fly it like a pattern plane and they stick G-62's in them without the drive unit, and they go like a bat out of hell. I prefer the 40's or 42's with the drive unit, there is nothing like that big 4 bladed prop turning. One of the reasons they went to the Quadra 42 was when they went with the 2 piece wing because the plane came out a little heavier. Any other questions feel free to ask.

bob

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

ENGINEUPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">
I got the opportunity today to speak with Thomas Hajek (Owner of Quadra) Super nice guy with lots of knowledge about his product. He has the new Q400B engine. It looks like the perfect fit for my project.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Electronic Advance Ignition, little over 3.5 HP, 3.73 lbs, and might even be less weight than the engine that came in the kit. It certainly has more power but the best part is it appears to be a bolt on application.It should also fit in my cowling very nicely.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">If you guys are looking for information on these engines here is their link.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><font color="#800080">http://www.quadraaerrow.com/Catalogue.page</font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">or you can contact Thomas at [email protected]</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">If this engine produces more power (thinking 1.5hp) than the included engine and its at the same or less weight then I think I have found my match for the reduction system and the flexible blades. I won&rsquo;t help to bring in too much power as the included blades won&rsquo;t handle it.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Thomas is going to look at my engine and we can put to bed what it actually is. I still am unsure.</div>

RE: Byron 51 Build Thread
 

HEY Condor you might want to go for the one without the electronic ignition. The one with the magnito would be a easier fit. The only thing that I can see different from the original Quadra is the muffler on the new one is on the side and the old ones are on the rear exhaust. You do not want to turn the 4 blade prop more then 3000 to 3200 rpm which will fly the plane great. anything over that the blades will just flatten out and you will loose power. Mine with the Quadra 40 and the g-38 module is turning around 3000 and it flys like a P-51. To much power on that reduction unit might start to vibrate it apart. I rember an article on some guys putting a Quadra 50 on the reduction unit and it blew it apart, the shaft could not handle the extra power, they had to make some modifications to the unit.

bob