Ed Smith

If the MAAC was to fold this is what would happen.

A group of highly motivated competition flyers would get together and form another association. This association would then be granted the FAI/ACC franchise. The whole 50+ year history of the MAAC would then be repeated, including the complaining and whining of those that contribute nothing and take everything.

Ed S

britbrat

What started out as an interesting discussion of a hypothetical situation, has slithered down into muck & mire.

Brighten up guys & stick to the topic. If you don't like the subject matter, you don't have to participate.

You also don't have to respond to silly provocations.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

that would be a possibility, but one has to remember that the landscape was incredibly different 50 years ago making it less likely that the process would repeat. Particularly, the emergence of the Cyberworld allows instant communication and the ability to organize/motivate from afar. Thus, I still hold that we would see more than one organization. Everything would hinge on the ability (or lack thereof) of whoever to aquire insurance coverage. I don't believe who had the FAI/ACC franchise would matter much. More important would be the ability to keep/attain flying sites and the ability to fly at other venues and in the US with liability coverage.

If we did wind up with a choice, I'm afraid the "Walmart" thinking would dominate and most would go to the cheapest that offered the coverage they needed.

Ed Smith

In this hypothetical model, any group could get the same Insurance as any other. However. the group with the FAI franchise would have Federal recognition. This does count for something when dealing with the Authorities that the MAAC presently has to deal with. The AMA, if it has not folded as well, would surely recognise only the FAI affiliated group. This has nothing to do with competition. Sport flyers wishing to attend fun-flys etc in the US would not be able to do so with "Local" insurance protection. This would apply not only to the US. From an insurance and participation standpoint Canada would be barred from any international aeromodeling activity.

All those people that think FAI membership is a waste of money and, mistakenly, just a vehicle for the elite few to get free trips would do well to consider this.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

Ed S

britbrat

So how does this hypothetical Canadian non-access to international competitions fit with the non-hypothetical access of modellers in OZ to international competitions? As I understand it (hypothetically speaking, of course), the Aussie modelling fraternity apply individually to the FAI for access to actual international competitions.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

I'm afraid that FAI and government recognition are two separate entities, independant of one-another.

If, there were more than one model association, government recognition would likely be more influenced by numbers than ideology. In recent talks with Transport Canada........... FAI/ACC was not in the equation, nor should it be. The ACC is not a government body. It's a sporting association.

Government recognition and liason is a direct route from the Prez to the MOT's office.

Ed Smith

Of course the ACC is a sporting association. That is exactly what the FAI is. The FAI is the internationaly recognised governing body of all sport aviation, modeling or full size.

Ed S

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

...as it relates to rules of competition..................and has nothing to do with federal government recognition. It's the M.O.T. that has the hammer and dictates the rules of flight, safety and don't care about competition rules.

As for the AMA, as long as any insurance coverage included flying in the US, why would FAI have anything to do with any reciprocal agreement. The current agreement isn't really reciprocal anyway. Our coverage extends to the US and also covers AMA members while they are in Canada.

As I said earlier, any successful new association would be dependant on the insurance.

Fact of the matter is, with ongoing talks related to the MOT's recent interest in model aviation, now would be a really bad time for the worst case scenario to happen....................... We need the association to survive more than ever at this point as we don't want the government sticking their cold, long fingers too deep in our hobby. Don't worry, I understand the danger of government regulation, but we need to be smart and not over-regulate ourselves to appease the suits who haven't a clue what we do. This spills into the other thread about a bunch of new, and ill-conceived rules.

Ed Smith

Not just competition, but any sport aviation event where a record or "First off feat" is being claimed.

The point I am trying to make here is that an association that is affiliated with the FAI and is in line with every modeling association worldwide would have more credibility than a bunch of local groups. If people have no interest other than banding together for insurance purposes that is their choice. If they wish to become islands within our borders then so be it. Hopefully some divine power will protect the frequencies they fly on.

I will emphasize my own answer to the original question. I, as well as many other highly motivated modelers would form a new association. We would apply for FAI/ACC affiliation. If granted this association would be the Federally and internationally recognised governong body for aeromodeling in Canada, just as the MAAC is now.

One can argue about this eternaly, But this discussion would take place at a much more intense level if the MAAC folded.

Ed S

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

fair enough Ed.

I understand your point, don't necessarily agree, but understand.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

FAI does not recognize individuals and you must apply through the local Aero Club in your country.....doesnt matter where you are from.

britbrat

I understand that that is not actually the case everywhere. In Oz, they apparently apply directly to the FAI, not through their respective Aero Club.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

From the MAAA, via a 10 second search on google...

That sentence says it all.

The Australian Sports Aviation Confederation would be the equivilent to the ACC in Canada.

http://www.asac.asn.au/

Cmon guys, check your info before posting garbage that is simply 100% false.

britbrat

If you read back, you will see the qualifiers on my post(s). I did not definatively say that the Aussies dealt directly with the FAI, but rather, I understood that they did so. That erroneous (as opposed to erogenous) "information" came from an Aussie modeller. Fortunately we have you to give us the correct information.


Thank you.

Jim_McIntyre

You dance divinely britbrat.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

No you didnt say anything definatively but you argued for the point regardless so you obviously beleived that your source was correct....after I had already mentioned that this was not the way things are done (by someone who has been to 3 FAI World Championships, and actually posesses and FAI sporting license)

These discussions go a lot smoother if people would refrain from posting second hand false information.....the internet is a fantastic research tool and with a few minutes of searching a far more reliable tool to gather factual information from official sites than what some modeller on another continent tells you.

kenair

My Feedback: (10)

what can be debated is:

does the entire organization (ie MAAC) have to pay a fee ($16,000) to the Aero Club or can individuals apply directly to a aero club.

I have contacted the South African model association, they indicated to me that they do not pay a lump sum fee to the aero club instead individual modelers apply to the the aero club.

[link]http://www.samaa.org.za/Welcome.html[/link]


So does maac have to pay $16,000 to the Aero Club of Canada when we have an handful of modelers that require Aero Club access, that's a pretty steep fee so that a few fellas can go flying around in a salt mine.

Has MAAC explored the money saving option and going the SMAA route.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Once again, Ken is posting crap...

From the audit sheet of the SAMAA....

2004

Affiliation fees - Aero Club fees - 22,185
Travel Local - 1,381
Travel Overseas - 22,161
Travel Expenses - Team Grants - 25,500

So in a nutshell, they are forking out WAY more than MAAC is for FAI, and only paying 68,681 in salaries, about half of what MAAC pays.

Check your facts Ken.

kenair

My Feedback: (10)

It seems the information emailed to me was in error, however the good news is that MAAC has made progress in reducing FAI costs but have have a way to go.

If I want to pay for someone's third trip to the salt mines I would hope that the contribution be made as a personal donation not as a maac freebee.

How much funds have you recieved from maa so far in travel, fai fees, etc.

The free equipment you receive from manufacturers as a MAAC FAI member, do you give this to MAAC?

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Free equipment LOL....I will send you my CC bill.

Your in lala land Ken.

DSLarkin

Ken habitually posts misleading or slanted information. Trip to the salt mines refers only to indoor rubber powered free flight competition, but there are about thirteen other disciplines in which MAAC may, and usually does send a team. There's a two year cycle so half the events are held each year. Seven of the teams are R/C.

Canada's FAI dues are determined by a formula which compares our number of aerosport enthusiasts with those elsewhere in the world. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than it was, and Canada's dues have recently come down. ACC delegates worked hard on improving this formula and it has paid off.

The Aero Club of Canada has few expenses (in addition to the FAI dues) other than a modest cost for its office and some travel expenses so that Canada can be represented and have a voice in the FAI. Each Canadian aerosport association pays a proportion (worked out by MAAC members) which is accepted as fair by all the associations. For Canadian modellers their individual share of this cost is a little over a dollar, and is much less than the individual's share in the 'full-size' assocaiations. Most of the aerosport associations have a similar structure with non-competitors, competitors and those aspiring to be international competitors. If the ACC/FAI costs were to be met only by the latter the individual cost would be in the thousands of dollars and only the rich would be able to find this kind of money. In effect Canadian participation in international aerosport would have to cease. Exactly the same situation occurs in most countries, the few exceptions being those which still provide government funding.

MAAC has a constitutional obligation to provide for the possibility for Canadians to compete internationally, if qualified and selected. MAAC has no constitutional obligation to provide any further assistance to team members, but the MAAC Board has always voted each year to provide some assistance, though the amount has diminished in recent years, owing to the pressure on MAAC's budget, and is now minimal.

Two Canadians have won World Championships.

As a side note, the computer radio was invented by a Canadian, Joe Bedford, who incorporated the microprocessor from a Commodore 64 on his Royal Tx in order to gain a competitive advantage in the R/C Soaring World Champs.

DSLarkin

I should have been more specific. The contribution provided by MAAC no longer comes anywhere close to meet a team member's travel costs.

kenair

My Feedback: (10)

Are were perhaps on the liberal gov thread by mistake, "constitutional obligation"

Why does maac pay the highest ACC, even though we fly toys, some of the toys no bigger than a shoe box.

Why is the fee based on the whole membership when less that 0.1% fly FAI.

Why not based the acc on the total number of MAAC fai pilots.

this could be done by have a new maac membershipclass called maa fai, have a different fee ( slight higher fee but would be less that a cup of coffee a day), this would allow maac to get a fix on the number of fai types plus use the additional fees to pay for more salt trips.

tell us what benefit average jo maac member will get from the third trip to the salt mines that were not passe down on the first two ips to the salt mines.

I support FAI, I support the trip to the salt mines, however should we not support out own costs and not ask the general memership to support the areas we pursue, it someone want to contribute, there is the vonluntary donation route.

Canadian modleres are very innoavative, we have modellers all over Canada that have never been to an FAI event and continue with innovation.

adaptabl

"MAAC has a constitutional obligation to provide for the possibility for Canadians to compete internationally"

Maybe it's time to change this?

Jim_McIntyre

Maybe it is....

Maybe it's time we all pursued less lofty goals, maybe we should simply be happy with flying the circuit, consuming some tube staks and returning home with a seviceable aircraft?

Or maybe we should refrain from flying altogether, instead we could display our aircraft, sit around and talk about the good old days when we actually built aircraft and not only flew them but, actually pitted our skills against others in friendly competition....[:@]

The tripe being posted here is truly nauseating, posting of false information and innuendo followed by backpedalling when challenged is most distasteful.[sm=punching.gif]

And Kenny ... what does size have to do with anything? You have an issue here too li'l buddy?