Space Control history updates
#1
Thread Starter

I have some updates for the SC history that are important for those of you who have followed this there issome important updates and corrections.
According to Toomin in the interview he gave to MAN in the fall of 1960 which was published in Jan 1961 he does not mention Zel Taking over. This means the interview had to have been before late August when Zel did take over. More importantly however is that Hershel clearly states the Space Control was under development in concept for 15 years, and extensively field tested for three (3) years.
This throws the timeline completely off that we have on RCHoF. As Zel, Herschel, and I have long maintained, the first Space Control flights were in the late 1950s. Back dating 3 years from the fall of 1960 when Hershel was interviewed we arrive at the fall of 1957. This means by Late 1957 he had a working prototype. This would most likely be s/n 1 which Doug Garabrandt had. I'm willing to bet it has late 1950s date codes on the tubes. Garbrandt has told us how it was not flyable until Mathes and Spreng put a gas tube in the receiver. This also point to the fact that it was a super-regenerative receiver initially, and the crystal controlled superhet (all transistor) came later.
Another thing is the RCHoF timeline shows the Space Control not coming out until well after the crash in Dallas, and we now know it had been flying in Zels planes for over 6 months prior to the contest in Dallas dated July 1960.
There is no mystery involving the reference to Electrosolids in the Space Control catalog,
Zel merely wanted to make it clear this was where the unit had it's roots but he had taken over, it was a tribute to Toomin, and also assured customers they were getting the same proven design, not a knock-off, or copy. There was absolutely no business arrangements between the two, Zel was given the company lock stock and barrel with no strings attached. I have confirmed this with both Zel, and Toomin.
Gerry Widowsky is the one who took and had a Space Control sent to the DOD at the Pentagon for a demonstration, but there was never a flying demonstration. Somehow, over the years the story has been re-told and people have assumed the demonstration a flying one, it was not.
There were 5 Marks of the Space Control not including pre-production prototypes:
Mk I is the Solidtronics units w/ arms on the servos
Mk II is the S-100 system W/ revised receiver board, round servo wheels. A weird version with no trims on the face or side was a touched up picture that never existed.
Mk III units had the yellow silk screened "F-86 Saber jet" logo, slide rule meter, light to the right of the switch. Some MK III units were made into Dual Trainers, and a few had gold cases with the yellow logo. The Mk III was produced in the lowest numbers, less than a dozen.
Mk IV had the gold case, slide rule meter w/ Gardena address, black F-86 Saber jet logo.
Mk V had a revised circuit board in the Tx that used tube sockets designed to be inserted into the printed circuit board, sealed control pots, and more capacitors on the Tx board.
Other notes: Production had reached about 50 units when the Mk III was replaced by the gold cased Mk IV. Mk IV units have four digit serial number beginning with 2. Mk V units 4 digit serial numbers begin with 22.
Jim Kirkland pulled a very nasty trick on Zel, who invested quite a bit into getting him a Space Control for his Beachcomber...this is on the same underhanded level that Cliff Weirick stooped to when he backstabbed Howard Bonner and defected to Kraft. It does not say much for them, Harry Sampey, or Phil Kraft. History needs to portray their acts for what they were and not glorify them in any way. Schwartz's letter to McNabb shows how everyone was attempting to copy Toomins design and was essentially an act of industrial espionage, When Zels accountant absconded, it put the final nail in Space Controls coffin, and it must be pointed out that these factors had far more to do with the companies troubles than any crash at Dallas ever could have. It goes to show how the very first R/C designers and builders were true hobbyists, and the ones that followed with successful R/C businesses were ruthless and greedy businessmen that ultimately destroyed the USA R/C manufacturing market by undermining each other with predatory practices.
According to Toomin in the interview he gave to MAN in the fall of 1960 which was published in Jan 1961 he does not mention Zel Taking over. This means the interview had to have been before late August when Zel did take over. More importantly however is that Hershel clearly states the Space Control was under development in concept for 15 years, and extensively field tested for three (3) years.
This throws the timeline completely off that we have on RCHoF. As Zel, Herschel, and I have long maintained, the first Space Control flights were in the late 1950s. Back dating 3 years from the fall of 1960 when Hershel was interviewed we arrive at the fall of 1957. This means by Late 1957 he had a working prototype. This would most likely be s/n 1 which Doug Garabrandt had. I'm willing to bet it has late 1950s date codes on the tubes. Garbrandt has told us how it was not flyable until Mathes and Spreng put a gas tube in the receiver. This also point to the fact that it was a super-regenerative receiver initially, and the crystal controlled superhet (all transistor) came later.
Another thing is the RCHoF timeline shows the Space Control not coming out until well after the crash in Dallas, and we now know it had been flying in Zels planes for over 6 months prior to the contest in Dallas dated July 1960.
There is no mystery involving the reference to Electrosolids in the Space Control catalog,
Zel merely wanted to make it clear this was where the unit had it's roots but he had taken over, it was a tribute to Toomin, and also assured customers they were getting the same proven design, not a knock-off, or copy. There was absolutely no business arrangements between the two, Zel was given the company lock stock and barrel with no strings attached. I have confirmed this with both Zel, and Toomin.
Gerry Widowsky is the one who took and had a Space Control sent to the DOD at the Pentagon for a demonstration, but there was never a flying demonstration. Somehow, over the years the story has been re-told and people have assumed the demonstration a flying one, it was not.
There were 5 Marks of the Space Control not including pre-production prototypes:
Mk I is the Solidtronics units w/ arms on the servos
Mk II is the S-100 system W/ revised receiver board, round servo wheels. A weird version with no trims on the face or side was a touched up picture that never existed.
Mk III units had the yellow silk screened "F-86 Saber jet" logo, slide rule meter, light to the right of the switch. Some MK III units were made into Dual Trainers, and a few had gold cases with the yellow logo. The Mk III was produced in the lowest numbers, less than a dozen.
Mk IV had the gold case, slide rule meter w/ Gardena address, black F-86 Saber jet logo.
Mk V had a revised circuit board in the Tx that used tube sockets designed to be inserted into the printed circuit board, sealed control pots, and more capacitors on the Tx board.
Other notes: Production had reached about 50 units when the Mk III was replaced by the gold cased Mk IV. Mk IV units have four digit serial number beginning with 2. Mk V units 4 digit serial numbers begin with 22.
Jim Kirkland pulled a very nasty trick on Zel, who invested quite a bit into getting him a Space Control for his Beachcomber...this is on the same underhanded level that Cliff Weirick stooped to when he backstabbed Howard Bonner and defected to Kraft. It does not say much for them, Harry Sampey, or Phil Kraft. History needs to portray their acts for what they were and not glorify them in any way. Schwartz's letter to McNabb shows how everyone was attempting to copy Toomins design and was essentially an act of industrial espionage, When Zels accountant absconded, it put the final nail in Space Controls coffin, and it must be pointed out that these factors had far more to do with the companies troubles than any crash at Dallas ever could have. It goes to show how the very first R/C designers and builders were true hobbyists, and the ones that followed with successful R/C businesses were ruthless and greedy businessmen that ultimately destroyed the USA R/C manufacturing market by undermining each other with predatory practices.
#2

My Feedback: (1)
I think it is pointless to write stuff that can't be proved and is often slanted by the surviving parties with exact details long lost in their memories. Perhaps if this subject had been documented when the principals were all still alive, able to defend their names and actions I might feel different. But has seemed for some time that quite often you seem to have an axe to grind as to the origins of RC and some fundamental concepts as well as motives of people involved.
#3
Thread Starter

Quite to the contrary, some of the people mentioned are alive, the others I knew before they passed, and there is the harsh realities of what really went on that was not ,nor ever will be published in a magazine because the hobby periodicals are basically trade advertizements. But this does not change what happened. The history of R/C development is fraught with many unfortunate deeds of individuals taking unfair advantage of each other and the competition, it's fairly cut throat dog-eat dog business that unless you are actually in the industry, you never would know about. The sad fact is I don't have to have an axe to grind for these things to happen, and in reality it had no impact on me directly, as they happened in the 1960s, but truth be know it was not a very rosy picture behind the scenes. If you think the post above is lurid, go read Joe Martins accounts of his days at Micro-Avionics, and Kraft, for some real hair raising stories. What I mentioned is well documented in many sources, so it's not a slanted memory, if you dare go research the F&M and Galatron debacle where one guy tries to steal away Hoovers employees, ugly.
I worked in the R/C industry from 1977 until 1993, at first as a tech, then later as a designer and production engineer. Yopu would not beleive the things that happened, it was really under handed. For example: My boss told me to go buy the competitions product, take it apart, reverse engineer it(meaning draw a schematic and make up a parts list) so we could copy it with some changes and undercut the competition. I was also directed when writing instructions and promotional literature to make exagerated claims and sometimes some flat out false claims about what our product could do. It shocked me until I realized everyone did this to some extent, and then I saw what most public hobbyists would call the "dark side' of the electronics R/C manufacturing industry. I could tell many stories about some of the top R/C car drivers sold their allegiance to the highest bidder, to these guys nothing was sacred.
So therefore, hate to burst your bubble, but even our hobby is not imune to mans continued inhumanity to his fellow man, and the lasting impacts these less than noble deeds ultimately had on our hobby. The Japanese were able to exploit the situation much like Pizarro exploited the fact that the Incas were in a civil war: it weakened them so he was able to divide and concour. Had the Incas been united, he would not have stood a chance. Our R/C industry here in the USA could have done much better and survived to control the technology had it not been so weakend and fractionated by the end of the 1970s. Orbit, died with a fizzle, as did Micro, Citizen-Ship, Min-X, Logictrol, and many more. Each was too buisy competing with each other to get on the same page and work together towards fighting their common enemy, and that weakened them to where they had nothing left in the end and basically left the door open to foreign competitors. Here we were once world leaders and innovators, and it all slipped right out of our hands. Thats not an axe to grind, it's just really tragic, and avoidable.
I worked in the R/C industry from 1977 until 1993, at first as a tech, then later as a designer and production engineer. Yopu would not beleive the things that happened, it was really under handed. For example: My boss told me to go buy the competitions product, take it apart, reverse engineer it(meaning draw a schematic and make up a parts list) so we could copy it with some changes and undercut the competition. I was also directed when writing instructions and promotional literature to make exagerated claims and sometimes some flat out false claims about what our product could do. It shocked me until I realized everyone did this to some extent, and then I saw what most public hobbyists would call the "dark side' of the electronics R/C manufacturing industry. I could tell many stories about some of the top R/C car drivers sold their allegiance to the highest bidder, to these guys nothing was sacred.
So therefore, hate to burst your bubble, but even our hobby is not imune to mans continued inhumanity to his fellow man, and the lasting impacts these less than noble deeds ultimately had on our hobby. The Japanese were able to exploit the situation much like Pizarro exploited the fact that the Incas were in a civil war: it weakened them so he was able to divide and concour. Had the Incas been united, he would not have stood a chance. Our R/C industry here in the USA could have done much better and survived to control the technology had it not been so weakend and fractionated by the end of the 1970s. Orbit, died with a fizzle, as did Micro, Citizen-Ship, Min-X, Logictrol, and many more. Each was too buisy competing with each other to get on the same page and work together towards fighting their common enemy, and that weakened them to where they had nothing left in the end and basically left the door open to foreign competitors. Here we were once world leaders and innovators, and it all slipped right out of our hands. Thats not an axe to grind, it's just really tragic, and avoidable.
#4
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
I have been reading all this with great interest. Some not so nice accusations have unnecessarily been made. I do not remember a letter ot McNabb, although I did design their relayless servo for them...many many decades ago. When I was making good money I bought just about every proportional I could find. I bought a Space Control when I saw Zel fly it at the DCRC Symposium. I paid $695 in yesterdays dollars for it. It had a problem with drift that I found was a factor of transmitter tube filament voltage change as the nicads went down. I never had a good flight as it always crashed my plane. I would send it back and usually they took six months to get it back to me. No fooling. I could call out there and Toomin and Ritchie were ALWAYS in a meeting and could not talk to me...although I was reduced to begging to get the durned thing fixed and back to me. Finally in disgust, I sold it and was happy to see it go even at a horrendous financial loss. I lost a lot of planes with that system. Odd, Hal DeBolt flew one and it was flawless, but I could not get him to tell me how he modified it so it worked as well as it did. I tried the Sampey..even visiting the factory once and found that Harry had filched the Citizenship receiver design, but he had problems with it. I remember Blake Honeycutt from NC at a contest taking his Sampey transmitter by the antenna and smashing it into the runway. He left R/C for about thirty or so years before he got back into it. Those radios, no matter how they were touted, were not the final answer and many of them were not what one would expect. My first real digital was a F&M which worked well and later a Bonner 8 ch designed by Bob Elliott later of EK Logictrol fame. Modelers today have no idea what a deal the get when they buy a 4 or six channel system for a hundred bucks or so...
#5
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
A few other comments. As for "stealing other people's designs", I guess that goes on in every industry. If somebody has a good design and it is not patented, he can expect others to copy and even improve on it. What is the saying? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The Japanese are great at that. The only thing I know of that the Japanese actually invented was the Yagi (beam) antenna..named, of course, after Mr. Yagi. The Japanese are master of taking a design of someone else and improving on it. Looks like the Chinese are doing that and improving on things as well. Too bad, we are getting left behind. Look at automobiles today...most look like the design was taken from a wedge that holds a door open...sort of low in the front and a bustle on the back. IMHO ugly as can be. Surely the entire industry could not have come up with such ugly designs by themselves. They copied somebody elses fashion. The servo amplifier designed by Bob Elliott, again, was the first servo amplifier circuit that did not use a center tapped 4.8 pack to work. It was copied universally. Not patented, and better than anything else...and everyone copied it. For myself, I can say, in my own defense, that the servo amplifier I desgned for Citizenship was my own design and I did not copy anyone else. So there !!!
Regards to all,
Frank Schwartz
Regards to all,
Frank Schwartz
#6

Joined: Jan 2009
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From: cape canaveral, FL
i guess new subject matter i'm a new guy building a waco, well working on it i'm retired "thank god". i talked with kit cutters about the ama plans of the waco and they have airs about the kit. aparently it was a you cut it out yourself kit. i also talked with arazonia model aircraft about the courrgated airleron skins, they said call me they can help. i will post the results. i also ask if i may joiu the brother, i'm a scratch builder that learned from a neighbor who designed and build his own aircraft (freeflight then) in the early 6 0's and never lost interest. took a lot of breaks due to the service,but now i'm back. if i qualify i would like to be a part of the waco brotherhood.
#7
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From: Saskatoon, SK, CANADA
Hi Ceije,
I think you might have wanted to post your comments in the Waco YMF thread.
Now back to the original topic, I really appreciate all the work Jay goes to researching and writing up the history of R/C. Historians often have to make interperatations based on what has been written and whatever anacdotal evidence they can find. I'm sure what Jay writes is pretty close to what has happened and it isn't a real surprise. This type of activity and shenanigans goes on in other industries too, its just that we view model building and flying as a hobby and our mothers told us to play nice. Keep up the great work Jay.
Orv.
I think you might have wanted to post your comments in the Waco YMF thread.
Now back to the original topic, I really appreciate all the work Jay goes to researching and writing up the history of R/C. Historians often have to make interperatations based on what has been written and whatever anacdotal evidence they can find. I'm sure what Jay writes is pretty close to what has happened and it isn't a real surprise. This type of activity and shenanigans goes on in other industries too, its just that we view model building and flying as a hobby and our mothers told us to play nice. Keep up the great work Jay.
Orv.
#8
Bottom line, if those guys did today what they did back then, most would be spending time in a federal prison for industrial espionage; especially the ones who used government program technology to develop their RC products.
#9

ORIGINAL: Frank Schwartz
Odd, Hal DeBolt flew one and it was flawless, but I could not get him to tell me how he modified it so it worked as well as it did..
Odd, Hal DeBolt flew one and it was flawless, but I could not get him to tell me how he modified it so it worked as well as it did..
Dick
#10
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
ORIGINAL: Frank Schwartz; Odd, Hal DeBolt flew one and it was flawless, but I could not get him to tell me how he modified it so it worked.
I know that circa middle 1960's there were a few corrective diagrams posted in magazines on how to correct some bad diagrams which had been circulated around. Hal wrote once and mentioned that he sent entirely whole wrong diagram, and was then in process of correcting it. Never saw the corrected one though.
Last time I communicated with Hal had to be in early 2000 or about Christmas time.
Wm.



