Has anyone had experience using one of these? The Gadjet takes the place of the normal glo plug. A glo plug is still used but used with an attached heating element (or copper slug), energized with a regular starting battery, to convert a methanol engine to a diesel. I remember reading about this gadjet in an American model magazine years ago. I recall the ether content of the diesel fuel had to be increased somewhat compared to a standard diesel fuel mix. Any comments? If responses are positive, is the Gadjet still available and from where

Scorpio to make his thing work I understand you must use his special fuel about 50% ether.Our conventional vari-compression heads much better and of course as you know by adjusting compression ( timing) wide range of props martin

I have run a two different K&B 4011's on Davis 1/2A fuel. On one, after the glowplug was left on for maybe 20 sec, it would run fine. The other would undercompress (thicker head gasket maybe, never checked) without the glowplug connected. The engines ran with the Super Tigre NVA screwed in 1 1/2 turns compared to glow. Both turned a 11 x 5 APC at 9,700 both glow and diesel. These were engines set up for CL stunt. I think you could run diesel fuel in most glowplug engines with maybe a little fiddling with head gaskets.

Jim

What if you made a head in which you could energize the element in a glow plug but at the same time adjust the compression once running. Might it be possible to eliminate or reduce drastically, (10%) the ether content or the ignition improver or both?

Or, what if you installed the filament from a glow plug into the contra piston in some way. Once started, would the element glow and would we get the same effect? I understand that heavy equipment diesel engines actually use a glow plug. Any merit to this idea? anyone tried it?

I don't see any reason why using a glow pug wouldn't work to lower the compression needed, as that is exactly what my experience says it does. I don't know if the glow plug works catalytically with diesel fuel. I kind of think it doesn't, at least it doesn't heat up as much as with a battery. How about running a flite pack on the glow plug with a rheostat connected to a thermistor on the head? Heat the plug up more or less as needed to keep the head temp right. I also see no reason why you couldn't put a glow plug in a contra piston.

Actually, you could throttle the engine by changing the glowplug temp.

Theory. theory, guys, why bother, yes a glow engine with high compression will light off on diesel and keep running, but no timing
control maybe locked to one prop size, and putting a glow element (if possible) would be a expensive replacement when it burns out which will with the kero forming carbon and soot on it (element contamination) true dieselhead
with variable compression eliminates all that.and as far as big diesels using glow plugs they have precombustion chambers and used
for starting only if the engine is warm they start without glow heat. example Volvo, mercedes, nissan, mitsubishi to name a few ( I have
worked on all and a few more when I had my marine service up north
we have our enyas. paws, Irvine , MVVS, Davis conversions heads, a few others have made heads AJ for one and going back 50 years tons of
other production model diesels \> If this a viable idea pretty sure it would have happened right after Ray Arden invented the glow plug
martin ( I thought the whole idea of diesel was NO glow plug)and of course Motorboy in Sweden has done some very successful 4 strk
conversions no glowplugs, Davis of course conversions for over 25 years( proven with time) Why try and re-invent the wheel??
We all fly both Glow and diesel and it all works as is martin

Gadget fuel has no kerosene in it, it is approximately 65% ether, 30% castor and 5% IPN or similar.

Ether=======75%
Castor oil====25%
DI========05%

Corrected per Hobbsy 4-6-09

Jim,

Two things to try. A glow plug unergized and also one where you light the thing to get the engine running with less than ideal compression. Then you crank it down and away you go. Question is how.

Martin,

You're right, most model diesels run fine as long as you have good fuel and your compression seal is good. Just wondering though, if adding a hot spot might allow for the use of less ether (expensive and harder and harder to get) and an ignition improver, (not expensive but also getting harder to get).

What if, using a glow element of some sort in some kind of adjustable contra piston arrangement, you could eliminate or reduce the use and/or need for ether and ignition improver. Despite needing to light the damn thing, you'd get the benefits of kero combustion, with high compression ratios, driving insanely large props with stump pulling torque.

Yes, the element would get fouled but no catalytic action expected, just a glowing hot spot to initiate ignition more easily in the absence of a lot of ether. Could be that this hasn't been tried because of the seemingly insurmountable problem of a way to light the glow plug while retaining the adjustable feature of a contra piston.

What if you could also run glow fuel on the same engine but also be able to adjust the compression ratio to optimize power and efficiency? Just an exercise in what if and why not. Long winter coming, might just give it a go. Hey, remember Motorboy? If somebody had said he had a dieselized model four stroke, Ida said no way, can't be done. But it was done in a very unique and interesting way. And I had fun dieselizing my baffled piston Veco .19. No practical reason for it, just had to see if it could be done.

Actually, the impetus for this notion came from Ringwing who has a head for his soon to be received Norvel .074. I had encouraged him to use MEKP but his technical background and natural caution prompted him to suggest that I cease and desist. I've ordered his recommended Amsoil cetane booster but in the meantime, discussions of the need for a booster and also the need for ether led both of us to wonder how these ingredients might be minimized or eliminated. Imagine buying a jug of kero and 40W50 oil, totally cheap and going flying without all the hassle.

Another question. We normally just use our fuel to prime the engine and that works fine but what about using just ether with 25% oil as a priming mix? Might this allow a start using a lower ether content fuel? Or a start where your compression setting is way off, as in undercompressed? Just to get the &%#$@ thing going and fuel up the line?

Scorpio.

I saw a bit of a write up by Clarence Lee, I think, a few months back in RCM. Sorry, I can't find that issue off hand but I believe the thing is still available. Maybe just Google "Gadjet" and see what you get?

The Gadget is available from Lou Furco in L. I., NY

Lou's Sporting Goods & Hobbies
719 3rd St.
West Babylon, Long Island, NY, 11704

Hi Ya all,

I am not a diesel user but would like to look into trying one out. My main interest is in 1/4 & 1/3 size Cubs. What would be a good source of information and what would you recommend for a engine setup for the cubs? Plans are to do some float flying in the future.

Ever hear of the refrigerator fallacy? There is no need for refrigerators because people have figured out other ways of storing and preserving food. Therefore refrigerators do not exist.

Don't be discouraged by the think-inside-th-box dinosaurs. Remember the physicists who published a careful study, about 1903, which proved that heavier than air human flight was impossible?

There has been considerable running of glowplug CL stunt engines on diesel fuel by South African fliers who are flying at high altitudes. Incidentally, I wonder if the 'carbon buildup' on the glow plug wouldn't burn off when you put the battery on. Anyway, it is all very interesting.

The one important point of a glow plug engine running very nicely on diesel fuel is that the compression ratio does not need to be all that high. This idea of needing 20 to 1 compression ratios is bogus. Anyone know what the compression ratio on a K&B 4011 is? Maybe 7 or 8 to one?

Jim on a couple of my conversions after a glow break in I just put some diesel in the tank ( glow head and plug glowing) and they
ran, a couple ran ok, but died on transition, as one was about to quit put the glow back on and it picked up. I then switched to the diesel head and all was OK. my eyna 40 4 strk open rocker ran fine on diesel but down a bit on rpm martin

Jim on a couple of my conversions after a glow break in I just put some diesel in the tank ( glow head and plug glowing) and they
ran, a couple ran ok, but died on transition, as one was about to quit put the glow back on and it picked up. I then switched to the diesel head and all was OK. my eyna 40 4 strk open rocker ran fine on diesel but down a bit on rpm
Also a glow engine by definition is a "Semi diesel" due to the fact it will run without an EXTERNAL ignition source and as far as\
Kero only fuel remember in the full size diesels the fuel is injected at pressures over 1000 psi thru a timed injector as a fine
mist in a perfect spray pattern into the very hot heat of compression. This would be tough to do in a model diesel, hence the ether
martin Also a few months back I think Motorboy did find a reference and picture of German model diesel was was a true scaled
down diesel with an injection system I doubt is was high speed and sure it was a bit heavy also. So most things can be done but
is it practical in everyday use? martin

The Eisfeld model dieselengine from Germany was first with real injectionpump and pop-off nozzle in 1941 and the engine size was at 10 ccm. There was not information how it worked..[] Here are the pic.

Jens Eirik

Thanks for the info again Jens, Looks might it might make a neat boat engine martin

Jen's, your right when i start doing my os 52 4 stroke I'm doing a lanova cell to. you need to avoid the glow plug and add kero or diesel to the fuel mix. The asp 80 4 stroke diesel will be running again soon. The gadjet might work for some but not everybody. Brian

Warning old thread but same subject

I read about the gadjet glow plug in a new magazine 0ctober 2008

it explained the whole process
I went on line for search for more info and only found this old link

being a cheap sckate I didnt buy the magaizine but noted the address for the product ( no email or www was suplied so its snail mail)

Louis Furco 719
3rd Street West Babylon
L.I.N.Y. 1170-4470
U.S.A


If I can source Ether locally then I will consider to do some convertions to four strokes I have as you can increase diamater of prop with an extra inch with diesel fuel and only use 1/3 fuel per minute


Balsaeater

I think that's the guy! I remember a write up in a modeling mag, probably M.A.N. , some time during the early 80s about a glow plug replacement that would let a glow engine run on model diesel fuel. I vaguely remember that the plug had a copper or brass element and there was some claim about a catalytic reaction. This struck a responsive cord because I was driving a diesel Rabbit pickup back then and it made me think of the pencil element diesel "glow plug" for heating the fuel charge in the precombustion chamber at cold start.

Lou's Idea is not new. back in the early 1900s there were some engines either for marine or stationary use that had a solid ball sticking uo on top of the cylinder and most likely a rod on the inside of the head it was heated up with an old fashion pump up gasoline blow torch and the heat of the unit ignited the fuel mixture this was not an injected diesel. I guess the heat of combustion kept it hot. I do not have any idea of the fuel may have been benzene, kero??
It worked and no battery required

martin

Martin, I grew up about 1 mile from an oil well that was pumped by two of those huge engines, one had 9 foot flywheels and the other had about 6 foot flywheels. They ran 24 hours a day and pretty much 365 days a year. The larger one had a U shaped tube that went into and back out of the combustion chamber. You stuck a blow torch into one end of the U tube and flames came out the other, the engine was then turned over by a 6 cylinder Chevy engine connected to a differential that was cut off on one side and locked. The tire on the other side of the differential was litterally jammed up against the huge flywheel spinning it backwards, then it bounced forward, the tranny on the Chevy 6 was shifted to low to assist the big engine turning the right direction, it then bounced off the compression stroke backwards again, this was repeated four or five times until the flyywheel had enough momentum to roll over compression in the right direction. The tires that turned the big flywheels spent a lot of time making blue smoke from slipping on the steel flywheel, it was quite a sight for kid to observe. The big engine had a 6 inch exhaust pipe that made the gravel around it dance on each exhaust stroke. If that big engine quit in the middle of the night everybody in the holler woke up. That engine is going in to a museum in a few months. If anyone tried to use that engine now some whiney hand ringin left winger would make them shut it down. Those were good days when America was America.

Those are 'hot bulb' engines. The main features of them are low compression (3:1 is about the average I hear) and no complicated ignition system. They were used mainly during the end of the 1800s and during the first half of the 1900s. Since they had no electrical ignition system they were ideal for use in damp conditions. As long as your torch that got the bulb hot worked you could start it. The other handy thing about a hot bulb engine is that they'll pretty much run on any liquid that will burn. These are not high performance engines, and it's said that they're a real pain to get running right...but the payoff is that barring mechanical failure once you get them set up on a particular fuel they'll run indefinitely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_bulb_engine

If anyone tried to use that engine now some whiney hand ringin left winger would make them shut it down. Those were good days when America was America.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would generally agree with you but to be fair, it was the extreme, right wing, fundamentalist that said, (pre Wright brothers) "If God had meant for man to fly, He would have given him wings." [X(]

The 'hot bulb' engine with 3:1 and up to 7:1 was the early construction with glowing "hot bulb" while the engine ran.. Later the 'hot bulb' engine with hot "hotbulb" had the compression ratio 7:1 and up to 10:1.

The larger of the two engine had a cylinder like a steam engine with a rod going through the back end of the cylinder through a packing gland. The rod had a flat thing on it that rode in a slot, the connecting rod was pinned on the end of the round rod. It appeared that the fuel and air mixture was drawn into the rear of cylinder on the compression stroke then transferred to the combustion chamber as the exhaust blow down ocurred, an early form of two stroke.

I found that my ST .75, with standard head, would run quite satisfactorily on diesel fuel. It did need the plug to be energised for starting, though. Once running, its performance was quite acceptable.

CR on a two-stroke is tricky. The charge is compressed before it enters the cylinder... I don't know by how much, though.

By measurement, my ST .75 has a CR of roughly 9:1.

Haven't tried the Gadjet. On the face of it, I can't see what benefits it offers; but I haven't done any real research into the developer's claims.