baco

Hi all

I´ have a new Rotoplane 80 % finished. This new rotoplane is different from the older one shown here cause It´s little, using an MVVS .12 Engine.
Aydlett rotor is to minimize vibration. Wait me two weeks and the thing may be ready to fly.
Regards
Daniel

tintrax

In my ignorance I don`t know what an Aydlett rotor is!
Vibration - Is this a problem? I spend some time in balancing my rotors, by spinning them on a horizontal shaft and adjusting weights in the tips (small tacks or household pins) until one blade stops stopping at the bottom. I generally handlaunch so it is easy to feel vibration, if any, before launching. Only times I have felt excessive vibration is when a rotor blade has shifted on its single screw mounting and is not at the correct 120 degrees (3 bladed rotors). In that case I don`t launch! I have on hand a length of dowelling marked showing how far apart the blade tips should be. After a couple of flights it is a good idea to check this spacing. So vibration generally is not a problem.
Colin

baco

Colin
As you may see in the attachments, a Rotoplane is not really an AG. It´s a thumbling rotor airplane wich flies most a s an AG than an normal airplane.
Vibration is due to its design, look at the image attached, right "wing" is level and resistenace is minimal, but the left one is 90° so resistence is maximal....a moment after the sitiation is the opposite ans o on...This generates horizontal vibration.
Vertical movement is due to te lifting forces wich are also oscillating from right to letf wing.
Regards
Daniel

billf

Hello Baco...

Glad to see you are experimenting with this type of lifting device. In case you haven't seen it, Roy Clough published an article in the July 1993 issue of Model Airplane News on his rotating 'wing' aircraft. I don't recall that he mentioned any problems with vibrations. Seems that he used an .049 power plant. If you are interested, I think I can dig out a copy of the article.

BillF
Hudson, WI

baco

Bill

My .40 size Rotoplane is an enlargement of Roy Clough´s model. Before the .40 size model I build one with an OS .15 engine, but it was very tired and worked badly. This was a capable of short jumps.
I have MAN article and this is the reason to try an Aydlett type rotor.-
Regards
Daniel

tintrax

Great! Good to see something different. One of the reasons I like autogyros is that they are out if the rut of high speed flying in dizzy ovals. You are taking it a step further. My earlier response was because the pictures had not come up and I did not realise you were not talking about ordinary autogyros (but are autogyros ever ordinary?). Interested to learn how you get on. I think such rotating wings have been used in kite form (?)

baco

This is today status. Rotors are just 12 unusual "ribs" waiting for sanding and circles for the ends.
Yes they are used as kite, and here as moveable street posters.
Regards

baco

Building an Aydlett rotor is harder than expected, but finally I founded the right way to do it. Look at the attachment.
Regards
Daniel

Splinter Wood

I found this type to need great amounts of thrust as 'lifting cylinders' creat large amounts of drag. I built and flew a modified version of Roy's Tumblewing. I hear Roy has recently passed....RIP.

Clint.

baco

Nice Job Clint !, what are these fix tips, wingerons ? I agree whit your comments about thrust, but they doesn´t need speed. so low pitch propellers are mandatory
Regards
Daniel

Splinter Wood

The wing tips are not fixed...they rotate on the shaft extending from the middle of the aircraft. These shafts are turned buy a common servo much like a normal fixed wing. Ball bearings at the center of the cylinder's allow independant movement of the wing tips. Here's a better picture without the Cylinders.

Clint.

Splinter Wood

Also...a link about lifting Cylinder's from Nasa.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/cyl.html

baco

Left side rotor is complete and right is ready to cover. Maybe this weekend I will to put all pieces togheter !
Nice link Splinter Wood !!!!
Regards
Daniel

baco

Hi All
Rotoplane is near ARTC, as you can see at the attachment. Only LG and cones at the wing´s roots need to be built.

Take a look !

Splinter Wood

Keep up the good work. I'll be watching this thread with interest! I might just go back to re-think my project a little. I need to re-make a wing tip as I smashed one late last season. Also I'm looking for a good used light weight 60 glow engine. I know this will fly much better with the added thrust and a little more weight up front.

Clint.

baco

Today I´m putting Monokote in red & white scheme as Roy Clough tribute. Maybe this weekend the thing will fly !
Wait for news (good ?)

Can anybody here confirm that Roy Clough died ? Is for me a very sad notice. I am his admirer


Regards
Daniel

baco

HI !!!!!!!!!!!!

Rotor covering is almost finished, and It turns by itself...let me explain !
The original Rotoplane rotor, as seen at the first posted message was capable of autorotate when I move it up-down with my arms. But I remember some vibration when the rotor autorotate.
Aydlett rotor is softer, I can´t feel that vibration....IT SEEMS I´M IN THE RIGHT WAY !!!!
Regards
Daniel

baco

Hi all

This weekend Aydlett Rotoplane did his maiden flight. First try were acrried on a desertical landscape but I can´t keep my MVVS 0.12 running with confidence. I must change the glow plug.
A light wind keep the rotor working fine.

Back again at home I put a new glow and this time the MVVS was running really well.

At the middle of te afternoon I come into the airfield, light wind was blowing.

First I made several low speed take off runnings, but I don´t let it really take off. Finally I put it into the air, and suprisingly it did easy, and rudder was effective to keep it on the right way.
The Rotoplane keep a 7 feet level but it didn´d wish to ascend more than this. As the altittude wasn´t safe to try a turn, I decided to land suddenly. Propeller was broken, but that was the only damage.
At last hour I tried a new flight, with a zero wind condition, but it was impossible to keep the rotor turning until it has enough speed.

I must add some device to make the rotor turn easier at low speed without wind. Also I must change my propeller 8x6, 8x4 or 7x6, last one was 7x4.

Wait for news

baco

Past Saturday the Rotoplane flew. Really it was a short flight, near 1 minute at about 3 meters high.
First try was with an 7x4 propeller, wich was unable to lift of...
Then I tried a 8x4 propeller wich was marginally successfull, cause it lifted but it wasn´t capable to ascend more than 3 meters up.
The entire flight was about 1 minute long, and in a moment the Rotoplane begun to descent and I must land it without any damage.
In a new attempt landig gear hit a plant and it was broken ...so no new attemps were carried.
Flight characterisitcs were fine, stable, no vibrations and sloooooow speed
My impresion is that it needs more power than the 0.12 can develop.
An 0.19 may be more successfull.
I will try with an 8x6 propeller (this the less expensive way) next weekend.
Also I will make a new rotor but no aydlett, just the flat one ans in original article
Regards
Daniel

baco

Yesterday the Rotoplane did some new flights. One more successfull than others.
Let me give you new observations.

Wind is helpfull for take off, as in any gyroplane. In zero wind take off is impossible....cause the rotor won´t keep rotation enough time, until the Rotoplane acelerates properly. Original flat-rotor was different, it keeps rotation even at zero wind conditions. It looks as if rotation is easier for flat than Aydlett.

Yesterday flights had the same characteristics, take off was easy...but when 3 meters altitude was achieved ...it was almost impossible to keep it, descent begun and it was neccesary to land asap...I have some videos to explain it. This was NOT due to engine lost of power it seems to be related more with making turns.

Remember wath happened when tring to take off at zero wind...rotor won´t keep enough rotation speed. It seems ther´s not enough inertia or it´s some drag-related situation.
So, when the rotoplane did some turns (even as flats as possible) the Aydlett rotor its rotation speed is reduced and it wont accelerates newly, and lost of lift comes suddenly.
I remember when the flat rotor was flown, when the engine was lowered in RPM, then the aircraft begun to fall...but rotor accelerate very quickly.. (as in auto-rotation). This doesn´t happend to Aydlett

This weekend flights let me see that this is the problem, not power as I think before. All flights were carried with a 8x4 propeller.

Whats comes now ? I wish add some devices at rotor´s "leading edges" to let it turn easily. Any comments ???

Regards
Daniel

Splinter Wood

With the rotors turing at the same speed...there will be no way to turn. If you do enter a turn with your current setup...you will over bank and crash. I think this is why the designer of the Tumble Wing made the wing tip ailerons. Even with the 'tip' controls....banking to far will cause a spin.

With a conventional wing....ailerons cause one side of the wing to gain/loose lift to bank the aircraft. The equalivilant with the Tumble Wing would mean one rotor turning faster then the other. With free turning rotors...this should be impossible. Roy Clough tried servo activated brakes with some success. The answer he found was a rather conventional wing tip aileron.

Clint.

carmatic1

back during the early days of flight, people actually tried to keep airplanes level during turns, as in rudder control only, no banking into the corner... maybe a rotoplane will have to turn like this?

im going off on abit of a fictional tangent here, but wont these cylinder-wing planes work better if the wings were subject to propwash?

also, if you add some kind of airbrake over or under the wings, it will disrupt the normal airflow (faster on top slower at the bottom) that gives lift,while the rotation of the wings are not affected because the air hitting them is untouched... maybe it can be a kind of 'aileron' that is analogous to fixed wing aircraft?

Splinter Wood

The rotors seem to need the ability to 'feel' and spool up on there own. With prop wash...the rotors would spin at a fairly constant speed producing an near equal amount of lift. That would be ideal in level flight. This is where I would like to scan the original article by Roy Clough Jr. He mentioned that even an over sized rudder failed to stop the roll. He settled on wing tip ailerons. I'd love to see more modelers try there hand at this 'Magnus effect' type model. I'm sure there is more to be tried.

I have posted to Youtube my first flight attempt (and my only video) of my TumbleWing. Things that helped since this flight....more weight forward of the CofG and a larger dia prop. What would be better than that would be more power (still haven't). Also I believe more area on the rudder and horizontal stabilizer might be of help.

Video link...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kPO7OMzuQps

Clint.

baco

Hi All
I remember my old .40 size Rotoplane, which was a fine flier....except for vibrations. Making turns was easy, only with rudder. It feels like if were an ailerons wing. Even I remember some moments when the aircraft was at 90º making really hard turns without any problem with this.
At first flights I have some troubles, cause the left side rotor broken its attachment and it can turn freely from its right side counterpart. Not problem at all. It was the same feeling.
With Aydlett...it´s something different. It seems to be harder to turn by itself and in a moment it begins to lost rpm and it cant be recovered...why ??? I'm not sure.
I promise to put my video in youtube.com, this weekend.

Splinter Wood

Excellent...I love videos and pictures!

Clint.