I need a little help with my first 60 to 90 size 3D plane.

I’ve been flying for a couple of years now. My electro-mechanical building skills are good, but as far as the air-frames go, I can put together a 80%-90% ARF, and that’s about it (but I can make small balsa-MonoKote repairs) … Plus, with work, I don’t really have the time to build a plane from a kit (I would never get to the field to actually fly anything) … The ARFs take long enough for me. After 2 high wing trainers (.46) and a Four Star 40 (.46), I think I’m ready to move up to a bigger 60-sized airplane. I bought the Seagull Edge 540 – 68”.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA4000

Especially at first, I’ll be flying the Edge real easy … basic sport flying. I can do the basic aerobatics on the Four Star 40 and not crash, but that’s about the extent of my skill level. I guess I’m finally at an Intermediate skill level, but the Four Star is still challenging at times, especially in gusty conditions. I’ll keep practicing and pushing myself on the Four-Star all summer until the Edge is ready.

I don’t want the Edge to be under-powered (and you can always throttle back … right?) so I’m thinking about buying a OS .91fx 2-stroke for it (but I’m still open for suggestions on the engine). I would like to cut the cowl as little as possible to keep the sharp scale look of the plane. I had originally thought about getting a OS .91 4-stroke (because of the small exhaust tube and impact on the cowling), but after I saw the price with built-in fuel pump and the lower b-hp, I think I have decided against getting my first 4-stroke, and stick with the 2-stokes that I’m more familiar with … I just wish the stock 2-stroke mufflers were smaller.

For the radio, I’ll be using my existing Futaba 6EXA-S 6-channel (with standard R127DF receiver and 4.8 volt 600mAh battery). I also have (6) S3004 ball bearing servos. From what I’ve been reading in the forums about this plane, I’m pretty sure these servos and battery are not a good match to this plane. Maybe with a 6 volt battery, the S3004s at 6v = 57 oz-in might cut it … I’m not sure. Or, do I need something like the S3305 all around (except throttle) at 4.8v = 99oz-in torque
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDWF8&P=ML

or, maybe the even cheaper S3010 at 72 oz-in @ 4.8V .
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDTB3&P=ML

I didn’t really plan on buying new servos for this plane, but I must have no flutter problems and dependable response (even when I get more confident with it and eventually start pushing the plane to its full capabilities).

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Tesla1856, I'm currently flying the Skyshark Edge 540 which is the same size as the Seagull Edge 540. I am running a Saito 100 only because the Saito 125 was not out when I put my plane together. I think you should take a look at the new Saito 125 and you wont be sorry you spent the extra money. Don't look at the Bhp ratings as they tend to be misleading. A 4 stoke has less hp but it has more torque and can swing a bigger prop and you'll just love the sound. A 4 stoke will also burn less fuel and you can still run 2 stroke fuel in them as long as you run a high oil content around 18%. I'm using Hitech HS-635 servos and a HS-645 on the rudder.

Hi Zippi, thanks for the response. That's a nice 60/90 Edge 540 you have there.

I'll definitely consider a Saito. I've heard nothing but good things about their 4-stokes. So, the FA-125A is an option
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAIE125A

but since I'm already trying to scrape up money for the servos, it's good to hear that the FA-100 is a good match for an Edge 540 this size.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SAIE100

For comparison sake, here are the OS offerings:
OS .91 FX - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBY47&P=0
OS FS-91 II Surpass - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXSY82&P=0
OS FS-91 II Surpass w/Pump - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBY61

Another thing I've read is that 4-stokes run better inverted. Since my Edge's engine mounts at like a 130 degree angle down ( looks like 8 o'clock) that's something to factor in as well. Looks like the muffler angle on the Saitos is adjustable, so hopefully I could angle it so it comes out of the cowl directly under the engine (close to the middle). On this Seagull Edge, there is some major empty space down there to work with.

So with the 4-stoke, I need to get the proper fuel (makes sense), but what's the deal with the fuel pumps? If I get a Saito, do I need a Perry pump or something similar? Unlike the 2-stokes, I don't see a fuel tank pressure fitting coming off the muffler.

Zippi,

What voltage and mAh is your on-board battery that you are running your Hitech servos off of?

Having only built and flown .46 up to now I never really thought about it, but it looks like the extra 1.2 volt cell can really make a difference in torque (power) and while drawing all that power, you need more of it so it's a good idea to increase the mAh size?

Looks like I might be on the right track with servo selection after all.

Your Hitech HS-635 (high torque) looks similar to the Futaba S3010
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFRS6&P=ML

While the HS-645 (metal gear, high torque) looks similar to the Futaba S3305
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXUZ89&P=ML

I'm thinking a possible servo setup might be (if sticking with all Futaba radio gear) :
1 - S3305 - Rudder
2 - S3010 - Elevator
2 - S3010 - Ailerons
1 - S3004 - Throttle (a standard ball bearing servo)

Tesla1856, I have about 8 flights on my Seagull edge 540 now and love this airplane. I am using a Saito 100, (my first, but not last Saito, they sound great and run great) I am using Futaba electronics as my radio is the 9C because I also fly helis. I am using the Futaba 3010s all around and they seem to be fine. I have a 15X6 APC prop on the Saito and no pump. It is a wonderful setup that sounds great and has all the power I need. I am new to aerobatics and this was a good choice after learning the basics on my Ultra Stik. Hope you are as happy with it as I am.
Mike

zsnugz,

Thanks. That's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for.

Glad to hear you like it and the Saito 100 is plenty of power. No pump and it runs fine ... cool. Did you use the stock fuel tank or upgrade it ?

Are you running your Futaba 3010's on 4.8v or 6.0v

I am using the stock tank so far and setting my timer to 7 minutes before I land and I still have fuel left over. I need to take off the cowl on one of the next flights to actually see how much I have left. I haven't been pushing it either though. It will fly plenty fast at 1/2 throttle, at least for me. My servos are running on 4.8 volts and I put in a 1500 battery. I also have been using 30% Powermaster heli fuel. A little pricey but from what I have read 30% heli fuel is the recommended by Horizon Hobby and Saito.

zsnugz,

I've heard 4-stokes get better fuel economy than the 2-stokes so maybe that makes up the difference. It's just that I've been reading where some of the guys have been upgrading the tanks (so I had to ask), and it's not much bigger than the tanks on my .46 planes ... but with a normal size engine I tend to agree with you ... if it works, don't fix it.

Ya, I guess running 5 high-torgue 3010's, a standard 3004, and a reciever ... all off of a little 4.8v 600mAh battery is asking a bit much. If it would only last for 1or2 5-10 minute flights before a recharge, that's a little too close for comfort for me.

I think this is the proper one, and the price is right:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXWX97&P=0

Those 3010's won't use up much more than a standard servo. I use them in place of 3004's because they have more torque and seem to like the 5cell batteries better. I can get 3 to 4 10 min flights with a 600mah nicd on several of my 3010 equipped planes.
Best bang for the buck is a NimH 2700 or another Nicd if you prefer. I get all my rx and tx batteries from fellow RCU member Evan at his website RC Assesories. For example here's a 4.8 , 2700mah NiMh for the same price your paying for the 1500.
[link=http://www.rcaccessory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24]RC Assesories, 4.8 2700mah, nimh[/link]

Tesla1856, i flew the earlier version of the Seagull Edge with a Magnum .91 slx (2 stroke). It was an excellent combination. The Magnum does not give you the problems the OS 91fx gives. It is powerful, reliable and very user friendly. Plus it gives you the option of carb mounted needle valve (where it should be) or remote mount. Also, the engine fits side mounted perfectly inside the cowl. With a Slimline large capacity Pitts style muffler (the same one labeled for the OS 91 fx) it looks good and sounds good. And, it costs a lot less than the other engines you are considering.

When you do get to flying your edge, check your elevator control response carefully to avoid excessive throw. It can give you a snap when you don't expect it. Don't ask me how I know that.

Good luck.

I've also got this plane and love it. I'm flying mine with a Saito 125, Futaba 6EXA and the S3004s that came with it, but on a 6v 1400mAH battery. I wouldn't suggest it. The torque is fine, but after 6 flights, I've already stripped one servo and I haven't even gotten frisky with it yet. I'm planning on switching to 3305s on everything but the throttle. With the 125, I bring it down after 6-7 minutes and I've still got about a quarter of a tank left.

I'll second the motion for the fourstroke. I'd suggest one in the 1.00 - 1.25 range. Mine with the Saito FA-125 and APC 17x4w prop will climb like a homesick angel and I usually fly it at half throttle most of the time, so I'd think the 100 would be plenty of power for you. And I didn't need a pump.

Thanks for the heads up ...

I figured I would just use the values in the manual for low rates and high rates (but keep it on low rates for the first few flights). And about 25% expo.

For instance, the manual says low rate for the elevators is 3/4"

... that should be safe place to start ... yes?

I would start out with what the manual says on low rates. If the Seagull Edge 540 is anything like my Skyshark it doesn't take much movement on the control surfaces to get a lot of action. I am running an 1800 mAH on board pack that I buy from one of out club members who sells them at $10.00 a pop. Just can't beat the price. You need no pumps, no 4-stroke fuel because they run great on any 2-stoke fuel that has at least 18% oil content and burn less fuel than a 2 stroke. There are a lot of people using 30% heli fuel but only if you are flying 3D. There is no need to use the expensive fuel if you don't have to. The Saito 100 or 125 is a very fine choice and if I were doing it all over again I'd go with the newer Saito 125. It uses the same block as the 100 with a little more hp. The 100 flys my plane just fine, its just I like a little more power when I can get it at basically the same size and weight. Enjoy your plane.

Have you seen the review?

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=706]Seagull Edge 540 Review[/link]

For people considering buying a Saito 125 for this plane go for the (hard to get) YS 110. Probably cheaper and runs way much better. Mine turns an APC 16x6 on 30% cool power at 9600 rpm and because they're super charged they have a blistering fast throttle response and they even consume less fuel than Saito's! centralhobbies.com will have them in stock again within a few weeks. Also order a Tettra 14-16 oz tank because they can handle the high pressure of the YS engines. Sullivan will also work. I flew my Funtana 90 with a Saito 150 for some time and to get the most power out of this engine I needed a 17x6 prop which makes the throttle response very slow, even on 30% fuel. The engine also broke twice within 6 months and I just sent it back to Horizon today after sitting in a box for 3 months. Saitos are nice for sports flying, but they'll break in pieces with intensive 3D.

However, I have a Saito 100 I initially purchased over a year ago for my Funtana and I'll use it for the Seagull's Edge 540. Also consider that for best performance a fuel regulator is a better option than the stock muffler pressure, especially when you use 30% fuel. With the adjustment right for an almost empty tank will make the engine run very rich on leveled flights with a full tank. The Cline regulator is a good alternative, but this thing costs $70 which makes it even more tempting to go for a YS engine with build in fuel regulator. Once my 150 is repaired I'll put it in a biplane and I'll never go for a Saito again. Go for OS 4 strokes for sports flying, YS for 3D.

Does someone have pics of the 540 with a pull-pull configuration? I don't want to add weight and the Saito 100 will most likely result in a tail heavy plane. Is the pull-pull enough to balance the plane right? I'm going to use the Hitec's 635's or if I can get a good deal the slightly heavier digital 6965HB's with a JR R770 receiver and I try to get a 5 cell RX pack with cells between the size of AAA and AA (penlights) and a capacity of at least 1100 mah.

Thanks

Martin

I went ahead and got the new Saito 1.25a ... this thing is way cool compared to the .46 engines I've been using.

I just installed the motor mounts on the Edge and was looking at the spacing to drill the holes for the engine. The picture in the manual is kinda lame, but I think they are trying to say that from the firewall to the front of the silver drive flange (the thing the spinner back-plate goes up against) should be 125 mm.

Well, with my engine all the way back (with just 1-2 mm clearance between one of the black carb. mounting screw and the motor mount, I'm at about 130 mm (5 mm or 3/16" too far out).

I guess as long as I have a little extra cowl overlaping area to work with, I should be ok?

I'm wondering if yours in the same and if it's a problem (or what you did about it).

You can leave it as it is and mount the cowling as far as possible forward with enough 'flesh' for the screws. You will simply have a larger gap between the spinner and the cowling and you might have to mount the battery more to the back to get the plane balanced well.

Tomorrow I'm going to purchase the Edge so I can't tell how the firewall looks like, but it's also an option to cut, in your case, an half inch of the firewall with a tenon saw. See attached image. I did the same with my Funtana because I had a Saito 150 installed. I glued 2 pieces of plywood together to get the right thickness for the 8-32 blind nuts, put some triangled wood in the corners, glued eveything together with 30 min epoxy and finsihed it with varnish.

Thanks for the help ... That's a clean looking mod. you did there.

Ok, so I left it at 130mm and drilled the motor mount. I also ground off a tiny flat edge on that corner's motor mount washer for additional clearance. That puts the black carb. screw 1mm from the motor mount.

I was looking at the Dubro spinner I'm going to use and noticed it has a lip on it that will close the gap by 2mm (of the 5mm I was over) so that leaves just 3mm which shouldn't be a problem to make-up with the cowl spacing or leave as is.

I also moved the throttle cable wire over 3/4" to put it behind the carb. throttle arm.

There's more info. on this build over at my website:

[link=http://www.vlsdynamics.com/rc/planes/seagull_edge_540.htm]My Edge 540[/link]

I wanted to thank everyone for all the help. My Edge 540 is really coming together. I just have some small things to do and I think it will be ready to fly.

I decided on:
Saito FA-125a, 15x6 MAS, stock muffler and tank (no pump)

Futaba 6EXA-S and R127DF
1 - Futaba S3305 - Rudder
2 - Futaba S3010 - Elevator
2 - Futaba S3010 - Ailerons
1 - Futaba S3004 - Throttle
1 - Futaba SR10 Dual Servo Reverser
1 - Futaba NiCd 4.8v 1500mAh battery

I am looking at this aircraft vs a Sig 3D Mayhem ARF 72', I was impressed with the RCU review on this A/C. How does it fly?? Hover, Knife edge etc. It sure is a good looking A/C I will use a Saito 125 4s.

Suggestions and comments welcome.

Thanks for the input.

I put some images and comments online:

http://www.tweakshop.net/edge540

Question installing servo's. Does the servo arm slot on the servo mounting plate go to the root of wing side, as shipped from factory. or to the wing tip side as stated by others in this thread...
Seems as shipped from factory allows for the control horn to be centered on the aileron... Am I missing something .... Directions don't really state this...

Mine were installed from the factory backwards also... I just switched them around.

The servo arm slots go towards the wing leading edge. The control rod should end up being perpendicular to the aileron.

See my website for a picture:

http://www.vlsdynamics.com/rc/planes...l_edge_540.htm

Tesla1856,
What transmitter did you use for the Edge. I used a Futaba 8UAF. I was able to use two channels 2 and 7 to control each half of the elevator. This way I was able to adjust subtrim and ATV sepreatly on each elevator half, thereby doing away with the servo reverser. I have found that you do not always get equal throws up and down with a reverser.
Hope you enjuy your Edge 540 as much as I am enjoying mine.

Flashingred