Copied from my notes from #22 thread (personally this message board could be split up better but oh well)

You seem to be on the right track with the plt, and the pzt dials. But just for a little more input on them I will share what I know. As you already know you cant change them without switching the #8 switch on the back to unlock. (to the left) The plt (pitch limit trim) Will adjust the range of the servos, If you turn to the left the range of the servos decrease, and to the right increases the range, This will affect the lift, and if you make the range too big it will be hard to control your height, a slight movement of your throttle will send your heli up way too fast and when you chop the throttle it will slam down. Another thing to remember is if you make the angle of the blades too aggressive too fast than it will over work the motor, and will not get your blades up to the proper rpm, and cause it not to climb. It will also cause the heli to spin harder to the left because the blades have too much restriction with a lot of pitch and are not cutting through the air smooth. The pzt ( pitch zero trim) is important to set right also. You want your heli to began lift around 60-70% throttle, you can do this by your pzt knob by turning it to the left to increase pitch, and to the right to decrease pitch. Something to know is if you make your heli lift at too low rpm it will cause it not to get up to rpm and cause it to fly heavy, and when you try to increase the throttle it will actually loose rpm, and altitude, and because the pitch will increase and the rpm will decrease the heli will began to spin more to the left and you will have to correct more with the left stick. The speed of the blades also helps create a gyro affect, and the faster they spin will make the heli more stable, if your blades do not get up to speed, flight will be more unstable. If the blades spin too fast before lift off it will cause the tail motor not to keep up with the blades, and cause your heli to spin to the left also. Try to adjust it around 60-70% is about perfect for smooth flight.

author is not me...
Rob.

Ok group while I am definitely new to this hobby...

Apparently an inherent problem is with the arms and the ball pivot joint as you go up
to the top near the blades. Usually solved by replacing with HM-22E-Z-38 .

As a possible fix.... I have this solution... although I did see on the thread make one out of brass of sorts.

I have used this technique on other plastic parts that a weak post or pinion...
and obviously the little ball on the arm falls into that category.

Soooo.... what we do once the ball has broken off, usually left in the figure eight piece
is insert a wire brace into the ball, push the ball and wire brace through the arm, and
secure them.

Suggestion 1.) when trying to remove the broken ball from the figure eight put a large
white sheet on the ground, so you will be able to find it if you lose control over it.

Now... what we use as a wire brace is a thin small sewing needle.
First nip off the fat end where you would put the thread.
Clean and sand (roughen up) the needle.
Hold the plastic ball in a device that is secure but doesn't squeeze it to death.
Put the needle in some thing... a vice, you third hand device or what ever that can take
some heat.
Make sure you have most of the needle... cut off end that has been roughened up out.

Now heat up the needle in the middle, shove into the ARM, not the ball, where the ball
was broken off. You are essentially drilling a hole with the hot needle.
DON'T twist the hot needle around, go in and out quickly, so you keep a tight fit.

Now the hard part. is you are going to do the same thing with the ball, but you will now leave
the needle in the ball.
Clean the needle if it has soot on the end. If it has melted plastic on it, that might be ok.

Secure the needle in a device, and the ball into another device.
The trick is heating up the needle and then moving quickly it into the broken end of the ball fast
enough that you can penetrate deep into the ball before the needle goes cold, and loses it's
drilling by heat process.

The idea is heat the needle, stick, it into the ball, and leave it in. With the heat, it will fuse into the ball.
You don't have to be dead on... you will see from the picture mine is crooked.

Clean (sand) any soot off the need in preparation for gluing. Sand BOTH sides of the arm where the ball used to
be, where you heat drilled the hole previously so the glue will stick.

Stick the ball with it's now fused in needle through the arm, halfway.
Put some glue on the needle on the side of the ball so when you push it completely through
hopefully some glue will go into the hole.
Push the ball down snuggly on the arm, add some more glue around the base of the ball (I used toothpicks)
Place some glue on the opposite side of the arm so the needle sticking out will have "cap" of glue.
Snip off the excess of needle once glue has completely dried

I used 5 minute epoxy because it wouldn't drip too much, and as it dries you can work it around the joint.
Obviously don't work the unit too much because the initial set up is important.
When you snip off the excess needle wait until it's all fully cured. Although it is 5 minute expoxy, I would
give it over night to fully cure. The longer the better.

Well I haven't tested it yet.... but it really isn't too hard to do. And as long as the glue cements well the
needle post should be quite strong, and relatively light weight.

Here's the picture... it's not pretty but my experience on other plastic projects using the heat needle fusing
process has worked without glue.

Wish me luck as I fly tomorrow and I let you know the end result.
If you could find a way to heat the needle up, as in a soldering iron, you could insert the needle
into the arm backside, before use of a fresh unit, and a fresh unit would now be steel reinforced.

Some filing off of the glue around the ball so the figure eight connector fits properly might need to be done
once the glue has dried completely.

Rob,

If you haven't heard before, a lot of us use LOSI ball studs to replace broken off balls. The part number is LOSB1051 and you can usually find them pretty cheap on ebay (I got some from RCBOYZ) or just do a Google search. A pack of 10 will really come in handy.

-JT

Oh.... so now you tell me... I like your idea much better

My local hobby shop may have them but I found a bunch on the net.

OK.. so now I've gotten to really fiddling around...

The plastic arm that connects directly to the servers, has three holes in it.
Factory has the linkage connected to the center hole. I move it to the inside
hole which makes the heliocopter less sensitive to control, ie easier to fly and
less over correction.
I found it impossible to reinsert the miniature brass connector, so I inserted a paper
clip that fit snugly, using my heat drilling technique as the paper clip was fatter than
the original hole. Bending over the paper clip on the ends so it wouldn't fall out.
You may have to readjust (increase) the pitch of the blades.
For a beginner it makes a big difference, and I like it.
I would suggest ordering a couple of sets of the ball linkages HM-22E-Z-06
keeping your originals intact.
I got this idea from here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8t-YHE18rs

Im sure some of you already know of this.
I like the modification a lot... at least until I can control the helicopter for aerobatics..
which may be never

Rob

I have burned out two stock brush motors this week... I have heat sinks installed, and with
heat sink paste. I took off the stickers on the motors to install the heat sink, which
even exposes an extra air hole on the motor.

Maybe this is a bad lot on the motors.
I could have installed the motors too tightly, and I did notice on the second burned motor
(ie my second Exceed Eagle 50) I had the screw rubbing some what on the main gear.
I am thinking this is the cause of the second motor burn out, but it flew great with no
apparent loss of lift and speed. Although hand turning the main gear had been noticeable
before I readjusted the motor, unfortunately after it burned out.


As another note for some of you that make your own "home page" to use on your computers,
or design webpages... this will help you search without go to a site. It is coded for rcuniverse.com
and google.
Insert the form in your webpage or homepage.
You will get a "box" to enter your search and a button for rcuniverse.com
or all of the Web on google.

Some questions from an old Newbie All help greatfully appreciated..

Brand new Eagle 50 owner here. Totally inexperienced in RC of any kind.

1. Blade tracking.. Can anyone detail how this is done? What specific control rod needs to be adjusted and how? Do you really have to look this thing in the eye while the rotors are spinning at like 40%???, Or is there a better way LOL

2. Front to rear balance.. Has anyone gotten this thing to balance front to rear, while leaving the LiPo battery where it's supposed to be? Is adding weight inside the canopy the right option?

3. Flybar paddles... I've read in other forums that the paddles should be flat and level. My heli came with the flybar paddles set at exact opposite pitches.. That is, one tilted up and the other tilted down.. Any Help there?

Thanks in advace to all that take the time to help.. Any other hints and tips would also be greatfully appreciated.

ALWAYS turn on the Transmitter (Tx) first.. then plug the helicopter battery in.
Reverse order to power down.
Make sure you use the training balls.
With electric tape or duck tape, tape the toggle switch top right to the NORMAL position.
NOT 3d.

Blade tracking see picture below. You can tape the helicopter to the table, then stand back.
You don't have to spin the blades too fast to get an idea of tracking, at least not fast
until you figure out the throttle control control and when it lifts off.
What look from the side to see if they are parallel, then look for the color tape which is tracking low.
Adjust that side up.

Front to rear balance. They are tail heavy... some say two to three quarters (coin) in the nose
taped securely.. you can tape outside in the beginning. Start with one quarter first.

You will be asking about PIT and PLT... I have put some notes here.
http://www.atlanticbreezes.com/helic...-plt-notes.htm

Start off on a flat hard surface so the helicopter can slide around.
You will be doing a lot of sliding around the first week or two.. yes that's right week or two.
Get used to the controls, get a flight simulator, you can get them for $20 US.
Don't even think about flying in a tight closed space at first, a large garage, may be ok.
Outside don't even think about flying if there is any wind, fly in the morning or evening.
Its good if you can take off on a hard surface and land on the grass... the helicopter
will want to slide left... so maybe on a basketball court that has grass on the side to the left.
Don't try to go to high... head high in the beginning is huge.
AS SOON as you are crashing throttle off.

Look at these videos on You Tube they are excellent for a similar helicopter.
Setup tutorial #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMYaIjqIWg
Setup tutorial #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeAmsecIbPo
Trimming and Maintenance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP_jGEmkn4

RobBeach:

Thanks so very much for your quick reply and all the great info.. Its very much appreciated.. The videos were also a great help.

I do have a flight simulator, in fact, two of them which I've spent a lot of time with.. FMS and PreFlight, and while neither have the Eagle 50, the PreFlight does have the Raptor and seems much more realistic. I just feel its time to get the real thing up and running properly and take it all outside and give it a try without doing major damage . I do have the training gear as well which will certainly go on before first flightsl

Again .. thanks for your help

finchase4,

Welcome to the madness!

Rob has some pretty good info there, but I'll just add my 2 cents...

1. Both the long linkage from the swash plate to the upper head and the short linkage to the blade grip affect tracking. Adjusting the length of the long linkage gives a fine adjustment and the adjusting the length of the short linkage gives a more coarse adjustment. The links are really made to go onto the balls one way, so you should really use full turns of the linkages. Of course this assumes they were put on correctly from the factory. If it seems really hard to pop the linkage on the ball, try giving it a half turn and see if it's easier.

2. Most of us on the 22E thread turn our battery sideways and push it up against the motor. I don't use the rubber O-rings provided. I have a rubberband wrapped around each end of my Lipo that I hook on the "hooks" of the metal plate so the ends of the Lipo stick out the sides and each rubberband is hooked on one front hook and one rear hook. Turning the battery will help with the tail heaviness. Another thing is to look at the tail boom where it attaches to the main frame. See if you can slide it forwards into the main frame any farther. I never liked the idea of adding weight to anything that flies. If your heli is still a little tail heavy, I have mine setup so that with the Tx sticks centered my swash plate has a very small tilt forwards to correct for the aft CG and a little tilt to the right to account for the thrust of the tail rotor.

3. The paddles should have no pitch and should be at an equal distance from the flybar tray.

-JT

JT:

Thanks so much for your info as well.. I'm learning very quickly that every little bit helps. Your info on the links from the swashplate was something I didnt realize.. Blade tracking is the next major step for me so it will come in very helpful. Any thoughts on the ball joint pliers I've seen on several sites for removal and re-attachment of those links?

I'll also try turning the battery sideways with the elastic bands and see what that does for CG.. Will also check the tail boom.. (another thing I wouldnt have thought of . I did try quarters taped to the nose and did achieve a level CG, but it took 5 quarters to do it which equaled 34.5 grams to get the job done.

I've tried to read as many of the posts on the 22e thread as I've had time for that seem relevant as well, but like all new things I'm at the point where I'm not sure what it is that I even need to know, or understand. I'm confident that I'll get there sooner or later, just dont want to bend too many parts along the way from being stupid

Thanks again.. RB

I haven't seen any ball link pliers that are small enough. I usually try to "roll" the link off between my thumb and forefinger. If they're really tight, I use a small pair of needle-nose pliers with one tip on the ball and the other on the back of the link. I haven't had any trouble getting them back on.

-JT

I just got a pair of ball link pliers, they work just fine for extraction.
Pliers part number HMXR4858 .. search the net. I paid $16.99 .
Popping the link on is easy by hand, it's the extraction I wanted.

Great idea on the battery turned sideways.... I was thinking of doing that...
I only used 1 quarter in the nose to offset the tail.
You might try those pinch on ball fishing weights on the end of the arms of the crash ball
assembly... leverage being the factory here as opposed to five quarters.
And of course as mentioned the trim tabs on the TX.

Maybe strut mounted battery holder for even more forward placement CG
offset... which would also make the helicopter more stable with a total lower
center of CG. Somebody must have thought of doing this before, even if it
entails heightened (taller) skid landing equipment for the clearance.
IE a battery tray.

Grounded until my new motors arrive....

One picture below will show a battery tray. To get a good fore/aft balance, the stock battery needs to be under the motor, and a little forward. When I showed this on the 22E thread, there didn't seem to be much interest. So, I all but dropped it from the SuperSkids adapters we're making. Since then, we've found out another way to do it that only adds another 6mm to our original design, and still looks good. I may put it in anyway. This part will be going into a mold with other adapters and parts for other helicopters, and their design will probably be done by Monday. So, I'll have to make a decision before then.
On my own heli, I put the Rx where the battery was and the battery up front. The heli balances perfectly and I haven't had anything bad happen, so I'll probably keep it that way unless I'm told it's already been tried and it will cause problems.
The attached pictures show a prototype of the adapters, a comparison to the stock landing gear, the heli balanced (fore/aft), and one shows the adjustable battery tray (but not the newest version).

Well, I actually made some progress with all of this thanks to you all.

I went to the local hobby store and found a set of heat sinks for the main and tail rotor motors and got them installed. For those who might be interested, the are made by E-Flite and the part numbers are EFLH1132 and EFLH1131. Cost was 2.99 and 1.99 respectivly.

I moved the servo into the battery tray and the LiPo battery to the front frame and not get an almost perfect CG balance without all those quarters.. *I put enough money into this thing the regular way LOL

I also tested and adjusted the blade tracking after making a test board for the heli.. Thanks JT for all the link info..

Again, my thanks to all for all your help. I'll try to stay active here, and if I can get a day here without some wind maybe I can go out and have some fun with this now that its set up correctly.. Humm.. I guess I cant blame the heli for the crashes now

Hello Guys....new in here...I just got an Eagle 50. Looks cool and all that.

Well, like many of you..here is my story....

Saw it on the net so I ordered it. I have flown fixed wing scale since 1992. No biggie..My daughter was born in 2001 so I put all my RC airplanes away till now. So i have some cash saved and I got the Heli. I recieved the FMS simulator too so I could get used to flying again. So I work for two weeks on the simulator and never even charge the batteries for my Eagle 50 until last night. So after a good charge, I hold my Eagle in my left hand above my head and turn it on. Light throttle, good pull..ok make sure the mode switch is in N and not 3D mode. Its not..but man it has such good pull at low throttle. Well this will be easy to fly I guess.... SO I put it away..Its midnight and my wife and I are enjoying Oceans 13 on pay per view. So I go to sleep later on. I wake up 8am and its nice outside....A little breezy but ok if you are in my backyard with tall fences and some protection from the breeze...Im READY!!

Ok..so I set it down...idle up and the main rotors start to spin! Oh I am so excited!!! I idle up some more...OH LOOK! It is starting to lighten up and sorta float on the edge of it's skids..but it moves a bit left...so i back down..add a little right trim...and I am idling back up...
on the throttle...

CLICK....
CLICK...
CLICK..
a little more...Its coming up..
CLICK...
CLICK...

and then
WHAM!

It takes off unepectedly like the last click (which was about 3/4 throttle) was wide open full positive pitch!
What the heck? So i eat up the main rotor blades and destory a set of clevis's and ball links...

They are on order now...Thank God its monday tomorrow ...they will be here Friday I guess so I can dork it up next Saturday again..

RC flight is so much fun!

Maybe it's a Roswell thing

GTX,

Clever attachment.....Almost didn't click on a blank......Was that an RC UFO?[&:][&:]

ZDaveC

Yeah its a roswell thing...I realized today two things. I ordered probably the wrong parts for my bird. They have two sets of ball link stuff. One is the 50H03-38 Ball Linkage set(which is what I probably should have ordered) and then what I did order was 50H03-06 Ball link Connector. Jeez hope what I order works...I hate waiting on parts!

Secondly...When i crashed...in the normal mode I didnt drop the throttle trim all the way down to the bottom. When I turned up the transmitter...I left the throttle trim centered....that caused the throttle to be almost wide open when it got some pitch so no wonder it took off so sunddenly...Jeez..


Maybe the Aliens did cause my crash. Think about it...theirs is world history now....mine is only on the internet...LOL

I don't know why the thumbnail box looks empty. Maybe it catches the animation at the end of the cycle.
I've had that gif for about 10 years..... just waiting for a chance to use it.

Yeah timing..even ten years later, is everything!

370SD replacement motors spin backwards (reverse direction)
here's my post in the Exceed Support forum (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_473/tt.htm)

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_67...tm.htm#6720506

I can't imagine this hasn't been discussed before... but searching I didn't see much info except for some
brushless motors and these are brushed 370SD from Walkera.

[:@]Hi all I am a newby at this have an eagle 50 I have been studing Radd's school of flight can keep it in the one foot square tried to hover for the fist time today but can not get helicopter to lift of the ground had the throtle all the way up and it still did not lift off the ground tried moving the pitch up and down the battery is fully charged just does not seam like it has the power to pick itself up can anyone help please

Here is some info on PLT and PIT....
http://www.atlanticbreezes.com/helic...-plt-notes.htm
also read the notes and links for beginners and You Tube links
http://www.atlanticbreezes.com/helicopters
and you will find answers in this forum
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_473/tt.htm


you know if you have power because the blades will be spinning around like crazy.
You just don't have lift
So... it's probably pitch
the connecting arms are not adjusted correctly from the get go so that when you
try to adjust the PLT and the PIT on the transmitter you still don't have any positive pitch so the blades
aren't cutting the air to give you lift... you may even have such a negative pitch the blades are
pushing the helicopter to the ground. Remember you have to flip the dip switch on the back #8
for PLT and PIT to activate.
If you crash, sometime the swash plate will come apart... and the blades won't be connected to the
servos, so you won't have any way for the servos to push the blades up for positive pitch.


Set the PLT and PIT at zero... in the middle.
Crank up the throttle a little to let the blades balance out and turn off throttle (throttle down).
Now look at the blades from the side... are they pointing down ??? such that when they spin they are
pushing the helicopter to the ground... they should be flat at zero throttle, maybe a little up.

Lift occurs passed 50% throttle...
It is also a good idea to take some rubber bands, and the toggle top right on the Transmitter...
and secure the toggle in the Normal position...

also read this thread...
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6815398/tm.htm
and this one
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6777798/tm.htm

I am also a newbie... remember to practice practice practice on the flight simulator.

Well about the swashplate separating problem from my previous post. I ended up repairing my bird like 3 times. Flew (sorta) three times and crashed the same way three times. After the three crashes i was fed up. I ended up calling raidentech and they told me that there was a problem with the rcvr/speed control units. Mine had burned up and would work just enough to allow the rotor to spin up and everything short of hovering.. It would spin up and you can pretty much go full throttle and NOTHING...then all the sudden it would get full power and fly as if gravity was suddenly shut off...I had to send my Eagle 50 back to them for a new one but they had gone out of stock...so they sent me an email and asked that I wait for 3 weeks (OR MORE!) for a new one....I asked for my money back...and that is how this heli story ends.....i would rather fly fixed wing anyway!

If it was the receiver... that would be easily replaced... but I can understand.

As far as the swashplates separating... the top was is called the outer swashplate..
and the lower called the inner swashplate.

I had the problem on Eagle 50 #1 from the get go...
and Eagle 50 #2 just recently... I don't know if after getting banged up
some of the lubricant from the bearing gets on the outer swashplate part
that "plugs" into the lower swashplate... but the surface looks "wet".

I put a little bit of tissue paper in the hole of the bearing on the lower "inner" swashplate
before pushing them together on Eagle 50 #2 before flying the other day and
it stayed together through a bunch of hard landings and crashes.

And.. yes.. I have two Eagle 50's... one I'm keeping "fresh"... the other..
is my crash dummie (#2).