Good day,

This little project was my Xmas present this year from my family and it represents my first large scale build of any kind, what a way to start out.

My gift is a short kit of the Dornier Do 335 81" wingspan from Wings of the Web. It turns out the short kit was laser cut by some company in Italy and came with plans and a walkthough of the build on paper and DVD. So after three days of studying everything I started on December 28th. I have run into a couple of problems, some I caused myself of course but one in particular seems to be in the plans. I have found one other person building a 71" version off the same plans supplied by Wings of the Web and they also are dealing with the problem. The problem is with the fuselage formers which the plane has 20 of. Beginning at F15 which is located right at the rear of the wing the formers should decrease in size gradually to the tail, but they step up and down in size instead almost like they were mis-labeled during the drawing transfer. It made for an interesting couple of hours to work out a plan to fix this problem.

Anyhow I am a month into my build now and I am farther along than these pictures show right now but I didn't have a lot of time to resize my other photos yet. I will post more as I get some time off work in the next couple of days and I am sure I will be fishing for help from all you experts that troll the boards and I will tell you about some of my other mistakes I have made.

Mel

You are off to a great start, the fuse looks good. Have you decided on engines yet? I think one of the challenges in the 335 as a model is the cooling for the rear engine. Also, I imagine, the fuel tank being so far from the CG.
Do the plans recommend any particular retracts, or have you thought that far ahead yet? The plane has a unique stance on the ground, and it would be nice to capture that on the model.
-Ron

Hi Ron,

Yes I have engines purchased already, I have a GMS 1.20 for the front and a Super Tigre .90 for the rear both 2 stroke. I upped the size of the engines from what the plans for two reasons. First I live at a higher altitude, over 6100' and since the thin air will rob power I increased the size. Second Gary over at Wings of the Web discussed in his video how the version he built which was a 71" wing span was under powered with the engines he selected. He claims he has not been able to fly his in a number of years since his air field was closed because his club no longer has a field long enough for take off. the larger size has caused me to rework the firewalls slightly and I will talk about this when I post the pictures of the engines after mounting.

As for retracts I have been talking with Robart and it looks like I am going to be using their 635 series retracts for large scale aircraft. They have a 110 degree nose retract now which is only 5 degrees short of what the actual plane rotated through. The real plane had a slightly longer nose strut providing a small amount of upward angle in the front as long as I make sure the nose strut is longer than the main struts I should be able to match this. The upward angle of the nose will help in getting the thing off the ground but to much angle and I risk dragging the tail rudder on the ground which by all accounts was a major issue for Luftwaffe pilots and a driving reason behind the two seat trainer version of the Do.

I resized some additional pictures tonight and I am including them, these photos do not catch up to where I actually am at in the build yet.

One problem I ran into while building the upper fuselage was the formers appeared to have been cut wrong for the crutch or the crutch that the fuselage formers glue to had a mis-print in the size it should have been. The fuselage formers fit very loosely over the crutch and only made contact on one side of the crutch, so I added shims to the other side so that I had more surface to gule the formers to the crutch. What I did not know and there was no information to the fact was that the 1/16 piece of ply that runs from the front firewall to F15 was so slip up into the left over space that was left by the formers and the crutch. So when I pulled the upper fuselage off my building board and began to mock up the lower portion I had to break out my Dremel and cut out my shims.

WOW! when you decide to get your feet in you dive right in! Its a very cool airplane to be sure ..I hope it comes together well for you. A good friend of mine can't quit talking about building one of these eventually. I have seen one short clip of an actual dornier fly..I am not sure if it is possible to take off short and steep due to the lower vertical surface ? I could possibly drag if it rotates too much too soon.

It is shocking how big this airplane is full scale..its like a BUILDING..just massive...

I don't know if you have seen this footage, its about the only good stuff I have found online.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=U_jHloeTADw

Yes I have seen that clip and there is another one about 5 minutes long on the web that shows the A1 prototype from a chase pplane during flight trails, both are very cool clips.

I think short step takes offs are out of the question with the lower fin hanging so low. I have already begun to modify an old trainer I have adding a lower fin to the tail so I can practice my take offs and landings. I have no desire to use the tail end of my Do to plow the ground, if I can help it.

The plans call for the lower fin to be mounted quite poorly in my opinion so much like Gary's 71" version I have strengthened the rear tail mounting. I extended the leading edge of the tail below the skin and mounted it to the base of F19 and the rear fuel tank suport, I also increased the thickness of the balsa around the base of the lower fin. The plans show the tip of the lower fin being thickened with balsa and shaped, I have not completed this step, yet. I have been worring over the rudders and the piano wire connection between the lower and upper rudders that has to travel through the tail. The upper half of the tail is removable for service and in the upper rudder the piano wire does not get glued, it fits into a slot. This is so you can remove the upper tail with the upper rudder attached leaving the wire sticking out of the fuselage. I put this step off knowing I had to move my motor mount to the inside of the firewall and this would eat up some of the space the piano wire passes through. I now have the rear motor mocked up with its' repositioned motor mount inside the tail so I can begin to plan my desing for connecting the rudders together.

The bigger issue in front of me now is what happens if I have a bad landing or take off? More so take off. Worse case senario of a bad take off knocks the lower rudder off the plane. The servo linkage connects to the lower rudder only, there is no provision for a second servo to control the upper rudder that is what the piano linkage is for. Hopefully I will get good at flying my modified trainer and this will never became an issue I have to deal with.

I will post some pictures of these modifications when I get a chance.

mel, are these the Al Masters' designs?

Man. You have a PROJECT here! I look forward to following it along.

Tim, yes my plans are a design of Al Masters. I know Don Smith has a set of plans out there that have a 98" wing span but I have yet to find any information on the net from a person who has build his plans. By the look of the AMA plans list there are a few assorted plans out there as well but most of those are smaller. I do know the major difference between the Al Masters and the Don Smith plans is that the rear engine of the Don Smith plans is actually located inside the fuselage just behind F15 like the real aircraft's where as the Al Masters set places the rear engine after the tail at F20 under the cowl.

Speaking of engines here are a couple photos of the front firewall work I had to do to make the larger front engine fit. I used the front firewall to bascilly hold the airframe together and give me a mounting location for the front cowl, but I cut a hole through it and made a new firewall 1" behind the original firewall. This eats up room in area where my front fuel tank and control servos were to be mounted, I fear I might have to move a servo or two underneth my cockpit. Moving the firewall back an 1" allows me to keep the overall length the same and saves the mounting location of the front cowel, I will have to see if this all pays off or comes back to bite me.

mel2498,

Nice work so far on your 335. It may be too late to think about them but the RCV SP engine would be ideal for packing alot of engine in a small space. Care for proper ducting to cool each engine shouldn't be too bad.


Pete

good. i've wanted to do Masters' 81" 335 for sometime now but didn't think they were available anymore. i'll check it out. thanks. btw, nice work so far!

do you have a website address for Wings of the Web?

Tim,

Here you go:

http://wingsontheweb.com/

Great thread,I love this plane, Always be thinging to build one .but have to much on plate already. Maybe get the kit to have lying around .For the one day.
Anyway here is site that sell round mufflers/mounts,would fit perfectly in the cowl,just the motor head would stick out.
they make them for the 120 2-stoke engines, a little pricy ,but smooth lines than.
If you don't want to spend that much bisson mufflers make a inverted muffler that has the tubes out the bottom,I just got a welder to weld up the holes where the tubes were and then welded them to the bottom. worked for me.


http://www.aero-sports.com/airhobbies/mount.html

Keep the progress coming.

Joe

mel2498
That is quite a project and it looks like you are doing a tremendous job on it. Built it straight as I'm sure you will and you will be rewarded.
I have built the small Do-335 from the Al Masters plans. It has a .32 up front and a .25 in the rear. Uses Spring-Air retracts, no flaps and I used separate throttle
servos. I also had foam cores cut for the wing and separate servos for the ailerons. I at first had trouble with the nose gear steering but got that worked out. I would
think that being as large as yours will be you should have no trouble fitting in all the servos. It is quite busy with the small one I built.
As for flying, well this is one great flying machine. It tracks like a pattern plane and while I fly it around more like the full-scale may have, it will probably do more.
It is a most distinct airplane and draws a lot of attention when I take it out to the field.

Dick

Here is my 80 inch by 80 inch
drew my own plans
started out with 2 1.08 front and back
changed the front to a G 26 and rear 1.08
man is this thing fast and impressive expecially in the air
but lands and takes off easy
just remember on the take off or landing
you have a sub rudder if the angle is toooooo great it will drag
I did that once
sub rudder came off went through the rear propeller
got it back down but had to fashion a new sub rudder
Front canopy opens by remote
two wing dropable bombs

After a long week of work I finally got some time to work on the tail. I had been putting it off, partially afraid I didn't know exactly what I was doing. But it is all wood and I have to keep telling myself if I screw things up I can always cut some new pieces and start anew. A difficult mind set to get my head around even after numerous reworks. [&:]

The first picture is the mock up of the rear engine and cowl, I had to use a different motor mount than what I had first bought to go with. Since I am using a larger rear motor without increasing the length of the rear cowl I needed to make sure that the motor would not be sticking out an ungodly distance from the cowl. So I found a motor mount that I could mount inside the fuselage and still leave room for the control linkage between the lower and upper haves of the rudder.

Also in the first picture you can see the tip of the lower tail has not been build up yet. The plans show a small skid build from balsa so if you drag the tail you have a small degree of protection. In the second photo you can see how I built the tail up. I used a bit more wood than the plans called for, it adds more weight but I am willing trade a few onces for a little more survivability.

The third photo shows all the tail control surfaces mocked up along with the rear engine minus the muffler and spinner. I am having issues finding a muffler for the rear that will not destroy the right hand side of my cowl and speaking of problems all my emails to Tru Turn have been returned unable to deliver so I am still on the hunt for a relativity close to scale rear spinner that I can get cut with pusher reliefs.

Hi guys,
I think I may have just purchased one of these in a hobby shop in El Paso. It is very nicely built. Covered in glass and painted. I am trying to determine who's plans it was built from so as to get the CG, control throws etc. I have only done some minor checking so far and being a good ways from home I lack the tools, even a good ruler to check things out. It appears to be about 70 to 72 inch wingspan same on the fusalge. Fiberglass cowls, two hatches up front, or one hatch and the cockpit. It appears the upper tail section is bolted on but I don't have a allen with me long enought to reach one of the bolts so that is just an assumption. Does this sound like it matches what you are working on here?

Well it might be an Al Masters, there are plans for a 56', 71' and 81' version of the Do from Al Mastrers plans. I am not certain if the plans are exactly the same in all sizes, meaning they were just rescaled with a computer program. I think the most notable feature you might be able to see if it is indeed the 71' version would be the long pieces of light ply that run from the front firewall to F15 which is the last fusage form that the wing attaches to.

You can see these pieces of light ply in the photos I have posted, I do not think that the Don Smith plans have this piece and I know the other un-named plans I have seen do not have these pieces. The Don Smith plans build a 95' wing span version so unless someone rescaled those plans down then I doubt you have a Don Smith plane.

Hope that might help you, when you get home shot a couple photos and post them, I would love to see it.

Thanks for the information. It gives me something to look at anyway. It will be a couple of weeks before I can get it home and unpack it for photos, but I will post them as soon as I can. Thanks again.

Mel,
I took a look inside the wing saddle and it does have the pieces. This is a scratch built job. He cut all the formers and runners himself so it isn't a perfect match to what you have but I believe it could be the same plans. My other thought was it might be a old Royal/Marukata plan set. They are out of business and I can't find anything current on them. I know they made a DO 335 kit but thats all I know. Hobby Barn down in Tuscon was thier distributor but the web site is gone so I don't know if they are out of business too.

If you need a copy of the 71' plans for repairs or reference you can get them at http://wingsontheweb.com/

I have never seen a plane built from or the plans that Royal made. But I think I did see those offered up for sale at the AMA's web site where they list plans for sale.

Yes I saw your reference to it earlier in the thread. I see they have the manual on a CD I am thinking of ordering it. Thanks Mal I will post pictures as soon as I can

You look to be making great progress with the build Mel, I look forward to watching it take shape.
Its amazing how many guys say they have a hankering to build a Do 335. Heres a link to a model manufacturer
in Germany that makes a kit and a vid of their Do335 flying with some P 51s and a Jug. Unfortunately they don't
focus nearly long enough on the Arrow, but there is a good sequence in the middle of the clip.

Vid: http://www.engelmt.de/Videos/Mustang_Do335.wmv

Web Site: http://www.engelmt.de/en/cataloque/artikel.php?id=434

Any new pics to show us Mel?
For the differently abled builder (ie .. ME) GWS are bringing out a Do 335
kit. Some pics of the prototype back in 7/06 below.

Sorry to much work at work of late and not enough play time at home for my plane so my progress has slowed greatly. But since my last post I ordered my nose landing gear and have that fitted in, I still need to work those photos together. I also started my wings in halves, I have the first half roughed out and last weekend I pinned down the right half of the wing and began to glue it together after fitting all the pieces. So I will post some pics of the left wing half which I have resized, I will try and get the landing photos resized and posted later this week.

And here is soem GREAT NEWS!!! The wife just leaned over my shoulder and said she is buying the radio as an anniversary present, so I will have that by this weekend!

The first picture is my storage answer for the fuselage.

still watching mel. looking good! i'm getting closer to buying the Wings On The Web short kit. just having a hard time deciding on the 70" version or the 81". i'm leaing toward the 70" due to engine cost and the retract issues.