BaldEagel

Scratch

How about some pics of your version. And what motor do you have in it? is it stock? did you replace the glass rod in the wing with carbon?

Mike

scratchpc7

BaldEagel

A pic is back on post #113 with all of the specs except the weight; when I finally did weigh it, the scale read 16.8 oz.

The fullsize prototype can be seen at http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0906912/L/

Doug

BaldEagel

scratch

Went back to 113 are you still using the Slow Fly Prop?
Note that your weight is 3.2onz below mine must be the difference in the LiPo as I use a 2500Mah and my folding prop will weigh more also, small price to pay for the added time in the air and no prop strikes on landing. I am assuming the PC7 to which you refer is just an lower engine spec from the PC9 as they look the same to me?

MIke

scratchpc7

Yes, I am still using the slow fly prop. I have not had any issues with the prop yet, and the plane flies great with it.

So far with the 1700 lipo, I have not run the battery out. I generally fly it as long as I want to and bring it in. As far as the carbon fiber, I just used the fiberglass rod. This works out for what I want to do, but there is a good bit of wing flex during high-G maneuvers.

The PC7 is similar to a PC9, yet there are some fundamental differences. The PC7 is derived from the P3 by adding the PT-6 on the front. The wing planform between the PC7 and PC9 is the same, but the airfoil is different. The PC7 uses a NACA 64a while the PC9 uses a Pilatus proprietary airfoil. The engine on the PC7 has no side thrust offset, while the PC9 does. The PC7 canopy slides backward, while the PC9 flips open. The tail, wingtips, horizontal tips, and basic shape are also different. The PC7 mark II is basically a PC9 with the smaller engine.

Doug

-Stevo-

Just received a flier from Tower Hobbies... the Ultrafly P-51 that I posted the link to a little while back, it comes set-up with flaps and retracts!! All in a little foamy [8D] SHould be out by late April (or so says the add).

BaldEagel

Stevo

Keep us posted on the P51 I wont one.

Mike

Adam G

My Feedback: (17)

Stevo,

The P-51 sounds nice. I went to the link when you originally posted it. I am going to have to take another look. I have never had a plane with retacts. It would be fun to figure them out on a small plane like an Ultrafly. Hopefully the expected date is realistic.

Adam

Mike,

preich

I bought one last fall, built it and put it on the shelf until the weather broke. I have been flying the %^*# out of it for the past month. I can't say enough about it. It's great! I am flying the stock Falcon 400 with a 3s LiPo and either the stock 8X8 prop or a 9X6 and all of the stock trows and CG. I've got 3 1500 mAh batteries and as soon as I get home, fly all three, start charging them up and get 3-4 more flights in after dinner. more on the week-ends. I've got my timer set for 7 minutes with this combo and get this consistantly with plaenty of reserve.

Although I am a beginner, I have not crashed this plane yet. I have had a lot of rough landings (I just can't seem to get a good consistant landing down....My fault though, not the planes') I've stuck it into two trees, cartwheeld it a few times on landing, etc. I've broken 3 props on landings. (What do you think the chances are of consistantly stopping the prop vertical?....I can do it!) In all cases, repairs have been quick and easy. A couple minutes with a hot glue gun, foam safe cyano, kicker, a little packing tape (great for patching those dings and divits that you get in the leading edges) and I'm back in the air.

Remember to balance the plane laterally. I didn't at first and my hand launches were pretty hairy. It would make a quick left bank as soon as it left my hand. Adding right aileron trim helped,but then I'd have to take it back out once airborne to eliminate the nagging right roll. I then thought to check the balance an sure enough, I had to add about .1 oz to the right wing tip to balance. Now it leaves my hand and flys out nice and level at about 3/4 throttle.

Like I said, I am a beginner. This plane has helped me more than any flight simulator or other trainer I have busted up, (GP Yard Stick, 3 or 4 flat foamies, etc) and it's still going strong. I have been able to do loops from level, nice rolls and inverted with confidence. This plane will fly faster than I am comfortable with and will fly as slow as I like. It will handle 6-8 mph wind with no problem. I won't fly in winds faster than that or if it's gusting. Just not good enough with the landings yet.

I built mine with 2 aileron servos (Hitec HS-55s) and I fly it with a Futaba 7CAP radio. The dual aileron servos allow me to use the flaperon mix. With the ailerons drooped (flaps) and landing into a 2-4 mph breeze, I can slow it down to a walking pace and still have control.

I really can't say enough about this plane. It is cost effective, robust, performs well, has been a blast to fly and I've learned a ton from it. I bought a replacement wing, fuse and tail group that are still in the plastic. (I figured this would go the way of the yard stick....more fixing than flying) I'll keep this one around for a long time.

scratchpc7

I am surprized that you are having problems on the hand launch. I did not laterally balance mine. Since I am right handed, it is generally easier for me to launch it with the right hand. I throttle up to full and hold the TX with the left hand and let it go at about a 20° up attitude; there is really no toss. It goes straight where I point it and probably 30 feet AGL before I am on the aileron/elevator stick. The only problem was when I tried to do a derated takeoff flying at work. Then with low power it took a little more effort to keep it from hitting the dirt.

Maybe it is the stock falcon motor. This is my first foamy, but I did not even think of putting the stock Falcon motor up front. I went with a Hacker brushless outrunner right from the start.

Also, according to my latest Tower Talk, I can get a new PC9 kit with the motor for less than without. What is up with that?

Doug

preich

I am a beginner so my hand launch technique could be suspect. I've never lost it on take off but a few were a little hairy. Since balancing, I have had a lot easier time. And you are right...it's really not much of a toss..just sort of like helping it along and it flys right out of your hand.

The stock motor seems to be working good for me. Perhaps if/when my skills improve, I may want some more, but for now it is fine....and cheap.

I saw the recent pricing too. When I bought mine there was only one offering. Now it is available with the speed 400, with a brushless or no motor at all. It looks like they have reduced the speed 400 model to blow them out assuming that everyone wants either no motor (to develop a combination they prefer) or the brushless motor. I would guess that once the existing stock of the speed 400 models is exhausted, they will be discontinued. I'm think of ordering one. For $50 it's worth it for spares. I'm also looking at the new Ultrafly P-51 with flaps and retracts. If it is anywhere near the quality and engineered as well as the PC-9, I'll have to have one.

Right now, at my current skill level, with the time that I have available, flying where I am flying (backyard, small spce, lots of obsticals, wind never blows the same direction two days in a row, etc) this plane is perfect. I'm having a blast and it did'nt cost me a fortune.

Adam G

My Feedback: (17)

Preich,

Glad to hear that you are having so much fun with your PC-9. Sounds like the stock motor has plenty of power for you. I never tried the stock motor, I went right to brushless. I keep mine in the back of my extended cab pick up. It is nice and compact, and travels well. The foam is very tough, and resists not not only crashes, but also the abuse it gets riding atound in a vehicle daily. I always keep a couple of fresh TP 2100mah lipo's charged up and with me. I am always on the lookout for an open field. I often find a spot on the side of the road to stop and fly.

As much as you are flying, you won't be a beginner for long.

Adam

Chocks_Away

Hi guys, I have seen that there is plenty of you on here with a PC-9, of which I have just got one as well.

When Iv'e sorted out a little niggle with the motor cutting out [:@] and getting some use out of it, I may want to convert it to a brushless set up to better its performance (when funds allow it []), as I am using the stock falcon 400 motor & gearbox.

The problem I'm having at the moment is detailed here - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4197320/tm.htm

Looking at some of your posts, there seems to be quite a few of you using the Axi 2212/20 motor.

How is it mounted ?

What size props are you lot using with this ?
and I assume that you are using the motor direct drive without any gearbox ?

I have never used a brushless set up in any of my electric planes, and this would probably be the first conversion if any.

Anyone gone from using the stock motor to a brushless ? how much difference does it make ?


What size ESC do you need with the 2212/20 AXI ?

Is there any other similar sized brushless motors of a similar size / performance to consider using instead ?

Regards, Craig.

AudiMaxx

Finally got my PC-9 together:

E-Flite 480 1020Kv
E-Flite 40-Amp Brushless Controller (v2)
8x8 Slow Fly Prop (will change to 10x? for maiden)
3S 2100 Lipo
HS-55 Servo's

I am excited that its finally built, BUT it looks so good I don't want to fly it :-)

A Pic for you all

BaldEagel

Chocks Away

Have a look at Page 2 post 36 and 37, and Page 6 post 126, I think they will answer your questions plus gives details of an alternative canopy attachement I found neccesary due to the higher speed of the brushless conversion.
Prop I use is a Graupner 8x6 folding this makes for less damage on landing.
The 2212/20 is direct drive with a Jeti 18amp brushless controller.
The difference between the stock motor with gearbox and the brushless is more speed, greater effiecency = longer flights, a lot less noise and no maintenance.

As too flying the PC9 just make sure all your controls are at center ane launch at approx 15deg up, if you can get someone else to launch so much the better, its easy to fly but fairly fast, will slow down to a crawl, even hover in a wind and I have thermalled and slope glidded mine, it is a massivly underrated aircraft and you will love it.

Mike

BaldEagel

Priech

Show us a pic of your double servo wing, the standard PC9 will slow down to a crawl without the flaps, but I use flapperons with the elevator on most of my other craft to increase the pitch rate tighter loops have you tried this I would be interested to know if the tail stalls on rapid application of up.

Mike

BaldEagel

AudiMax

Have you flown it yet, don't be afraid of it its a peach of a flyer, if you whant to enhance your bird even more try Solalight it attaches at 80deg so does not melt the foam I have mine covered in the Roulets Australian team colours, there is a pic on Page 2 post 32 on this thread.

Let us know how you get on?

Mike

Chocks_Away

Thanks Mike.

I did post a couple of replies last night, but I got an email this morning saying something about RCU going down and all of the posts everyone made were lost [:@]
So I will repost what I can remember what I wrote now

Ok, er..............

Last night I as the weather was pretty good, I decided to give it a go with the start of changing over an item to eliminate one of the possibilities of what is causing my glitching.

I swapped the GWS receiver with one of my Futaba full size ones, and a different xtal
Went out into the farmers field at the back of my house, and gave it a go.

It did exactly the same as before, but this time, I could tell that the glitching was also affecting the controls as well, so promply brought it back down for landing, which went with a little uncontrolability (due to the glitching) and went down fast into the crops as I didn't have full control.
Luckily the only damage was at the front of the fuz, underneath where the peg on the front of the wing sits into.
A chunk of foam broke off complete with the wing-peg retainer.
It has glued back in alright though, so should be no problem.

So it looks as if it is not the receiver or xtal that is responsible so far.

So I have gone to the next stage and soldered a third capacitor to the motor, so it now has one from each terminal to the motor casing, and one across each teminal.






Anyway, since last night, I had a bit of a brainwave at work while I was at my break...
When I built my PC-9 I knew that the canopy fixing was going to be poor, as I had read a couple of reviews about the plane well before I even decided to buy one.
So when I made mine, I upgraded the magnet system that was used.
My wife makes dolls and uses magnets for making a magnetic dummy (passifier for you Americans reading this if you don't know what I mean) with one magnet inside the dolls head, and one on the dummy to stick to it.....
Anyway, these magnets are very strong, and are of the neodymium rare earth magnet type, they are not like your average fridge magnet as they are much more powerful.

Anyhow, I pinched half a dozen off my missus for my plane, and used 3 on the fuz side, and the other 3 on the canopy side, which gave it a very strong hold, which could only be broken by either a good pull on it, or by picking up the model by the canopy and giving it a good shake.

This morning got me thinking about possible interferance that I may be getting that was causing the problems I was having, when I suddenly thought that it might be being caused by a magnetic field coming off these magnets, due to their strength, and affecting the receiver as it is only a couple of inches away form them.

So tonight I have removed all the magnets, and test flew it with no magnets and with the canopy off that still had the magnets in, and with the extra capacitor on the motor.

It seemed to be behaving itself & was flying ok tonight, so touchwood, it seems to be sort of cured ?

I was able to take it out to a much further range tonight, (which my piper cub is happily able to go to with the same GWS receiver in it), before the motor cut in/out a little - possibly indicating that it was going out of range, but nothing like before, and there was no glitching of the controls this evening either.


Before I actually flew it though, I switched on my TX & RX & left a good distance between them on the ground, and tried to recreate some glitching by putting the magnets near the RX, but I couldn't make the servos flutter, so I'm not really sure if it was them that was contributing to it or not, it's a very difficult call to make this one.
I know that these type of magnets are not supposed to be kept or used near computers or amyone with a pacemaker, so a reciver is no exception then if thats the case surely, as that itself is like a mini computer isn't it.


I think, just to be on the safe side though, I will keep the magnets out just in case, and find an alternative method of fixing on the canopy, like you have done with yours Mike.

I will just have to keep a close watch on it and see how I go.

Chocks_Away

Hi, this method that you used on yours then, has it since proven to be 100% reliable ?
It looks pretty decent enough.

Craig.

Chocks_Away

Just out of interest, do any if you PC-9 owners know how much your model weighs ?

All up weight of mine is 535g without the battery.
and the total flying weight is 635g with the battery in.

Just wondering, to compare what you can sort of get away with going upto, as I couln't find a reccomended weight range to be within.


I had to add 35g lead in the cowl to get mine to balance.

preich

Mine came in right at 14 oz (435g) without battery. I'm using a battery that weighs 3.9oz (121g) for an AUW of 17.9oz (556g) Net difference of 79g or 2.5oz. That's significant. I used all Hitec HS-55 servos with 2 on the ailerons. I was able to get the CG without adding weight. Must have been the 2nd aileron servo close to the CG, and the stock Falcon 400 is likely a little heavier than most brushless motors of comparable size.

Flys great!

preich

Here is my battle scared PC9 and the dual servos on the ailerons. Really pretty simple, just an additional cut-out for the second servo. I did not use the included hose and airleron pushrods though. I bought a mini aileron pushrod set (I believe Dubro) and bent new wire. They were just a little too long.

I have flaperons programmed on my Futaba 7CAP to the 3 posistion switch (I can't find the varo dial fast enough) to give me around 15 degrees on the first posistion and 30 degrees on the second posistion. I also have the flap to elevator mix active and after a bit of trial and error with settings, am able to throttle back, hit the flaps and pitch correction is mixed in. Drooping the ailerons this way really adds drag to slow it down while maintaining good control. Into a slight headwind, I'm able to slow it almost to a stall, cut the trottle and plop it down. (most of the time anyway)

Like I said in an earlier post, I am what I consider a beginner, and only have a vague idea of how dual ailerons mixed to the elevator relate to high alpha flight. I am probably a season or two away from that. My intent was to give it the capability to slow down rapidly and increase control at slow speeds. I think I have done that.

This plane is a blast to fly. It really releives the "pucker factor" associated with learning to fly. I have a Great Planes Super Sportster EP and a Carl Goldberg Super Chipmunk (glow) ready to go that last season was a little nervous to fly. Not this year.

Chocks_Away

Cheers for that Preich,
That seems quite a considerable amount of weight difference, considering that you have an extra aileron servo as well, those brushless motors must be pretty lghtweight thats all I can say.

If that is the case then if I went brushless with mine I may end up having to add even more weight to balance it because of losing around 100g from taking out the heavier stock motor ?

Oh well, time will tell I suppose if I make the transition to brushless.
The first step I will be making when the money allows it, will be to buy a couple of 3S lipos to get some better performance than the 2S lipos I am currently using.
It's flyable on them, but performance is pretty low, probably much like when you lot are using a 3S that is running out.

srserl

I just finished mine tonight, and it weighs 370g without battery. My battery (1250mah 3s1p) weighs another 120g for a total of 490g. It's completely nude right now though; I'll finish it after it's maiden flight. I went to do it tonight, but the cheap rx (blue arrow) was glitching, so I ordered a couple more Mikrodesigns SPF-5-RXO rxs for this plane and another. I've had very good luck with the one I already have. I'll steal that one for tomorrow and finally try this plane.
I found I did not have to add any weight to balance this plane, and I had to mount my battery quite far back (~2in. back from the front of the bay) to get it to balance. Everything is built stock and with the Falcon 400 motor. It pulls 12.8A static at wide open throttle on a freshly charged battery. I only kept it on for about 15 seconds, but the motor got quite warm. I think it will be ok, though, with all the ventillation in flight. I have a small brushless motor I can use if the 400 burns out.
Stock Falcon 400 Motor/Gearbox
GWS Naro servos (3 total)
CC Pixie 20-P ESC
MikroDesigns SPF-5-RXO Rx
FMA Direct CellPro 1250 mah 3s1p battery

If this plane flies as good as people say, I just might buy another while the 400 version is so cheap ($49) at tower.

I can hardly wait to try it tomorrow!

Scott

srserl

Chocks,
I saw somewhere that www.CommonsenseRC.com has a promotion of 10% off thier bargain batteries, or 20% off the others. I don't know how long it lasts, but the code is: COUPON CODE: elecplanetalkone.
I am thinking of getting a couple more 3s packs since I only have 1 right now. They have special pricing on quantities of 2 of some packs. I have not used their packs before, but I have read some good comments in the forums.

Scott

Adam G

My Feedback: (17)

Preich,

Nice looking dual servo aileron set up. I like playing around with flapperons myself. I would think you would have crisper response with the ailerons as well. The battle scars make the little foamy look tough. You should see the bottom of my fuse from belly landing on grass. It isn't pretty. Every once in a while I fill the scrapes and scars with light wieght wall spackle and repaint. When what isn't doing the trick anymore, I get a new one and start over. It is getting to be about that time agian. I seem to get about 50-75 flights before I either land it real hard, or hit a tree as I am running through them like a pylon course.

Chocks_Away,

I have four rare earth magnets holding on my canopy as well. I have noticed a little rudder glitching from time to time. Nothing with the speed control or ailerons. The rudder glitches don't bother me, and the rare earth magnets are extremely convenient. I posted a picture of my magnet set up a few pages back.


Adam