johno02

Just purchased Parkzone t-28 with PKZ1013 battery and PKZ1040 balancing charger. Need to know if charger can be used with or without pin adapter cord to charge Thunder Power batteries? I understand that a crossover patch cord may be needed, but will be flying this plane with both batteries, and would like to use the same charger for both.

Noel

johnpcunningham

It would work, but you would be better served getting an aftermarket LIPO charger, Like the Triton 2 and a balancer. You will get more reliable and fuller charges. The Triton 2 (and other mfg) can charge all types of batteries (LIPO, NIMH, Pb, LI-ION, etc).

JC

johno02

I agree with your suggestion, but still need more info. I have and use a Triton charger with a ThunderPower balancer for my TP batteries. I also have an adapter cord to use the TP balancer with another brand of battery. Now that I have the Parkzone battery, I would like to be able to use the same charger with all batteries. The Parkzone is a neat charger, with balancing built in, and various output settings for different batteries. It is simple, and would be nice to just plug and charge lipos, as the Triton only does one at a time, and sometimes I need to charge two at the same time. [8D]

Noel

johnpcunningham

You only need to balance about every 10 charges.

Since you have a Triton 2, you can put the two Lipos in parallel (make a 1 to 2 Deans connector for this) and charge them at the same time. Simply double your current rate on your charger since you have effectively doubled your battery current capabilities. I do this all of the time and it works great.

JC

Swift427

I've never heard of this before. What manufacturer has suggested this is OK?

I suppose if all 3 cells in every ThunderPower battery are made to the same 'exacting' specifications this may be possible. Doesn't each cell of a 3S Lipo have its own uniqueness that changes over time. Isn't it better to balance during each charge as it really shouldn't extend the charging time more than a few minutes. And if using the 4-pin balancer does extend the time isn't that evidence that the battery needed to be balanced out during the charging cycle. If Noel prefers using the PZ Lipo charger than his only option is to charge via the 4-pin balancing plug. Is it advisable to parallel charge two 3S Lipo batteries of different voltage(e.g. 9V & 10.5V) via a 4-pin Y cable connected to the PZ balancing port.

I use a blinky balancer to equalize the three cells before charging as well as during my Vision Peak charger charging cycle. I've found that if I use the blinky balancer to equalize before charging(as well as during charging) the battery will not discharge more than .2V to 12.3V even if stored for 2 weeks. But it will discharge slightly more .5V to 12V if I only use the blinky balancer during the charging cycle. This tells me that as much as manufacturers would like to have each cell in a 3S Lipo have exactly the same characteristic they aren't. Whether it's worth the effort to do an exacting job of balance charging may not be necesssary. Maybe a 3S Lipo doesn't need to be exactly balanced and each cell equally, equally, equally charged to noticeably extend the life of the battery. What say you???

The Triton 2 is more versatile and dependable than the less expensive PZ Lipo charger with its 4-pin port for charging. Is it advisable to parallel charge two 3S Lipos with Vision Peak or Triton when the two 3S Lipos most likely have unequal voltages(e.g. 9V and 10.5V) without using two blinky balancers, one for each battery during the charging cycle? If you use a 4-pin Y parallel patch cable for balancing two Lipos with the PZ Lipo charger wouldn't that confuse the balancing electronics when the two Lipos are most likely different voltages (e.g. 9V and 10.5V)? Would the 10.5V Lipo have to wait until the 9V Lipo was charged to 10.5V before both were being charged equally? Is that confusing the balancing electronics IF you initially have two 3S Lipos(6 cells) of unequal voltage (e.g. 3 cells around 9V and 3 cells around 10.5V)?

9thLife

gotta agree with Swift here-

I own about 6 of the PZ batteries now and have about 4TP's and another assortment of lipos- The ones that have balancing leads that will fit the PZ charger I charge on the PZ charger and never have felt they weren't fully charged. Additionally, I charge 3 batteries at a time (2 on the PZ chargers I have and one on the thunderpower charger I have)- I also use a PCM guard for polyquest/impulse power batteries in combination with my TP charger- and If I'm feeling really frisky, I'll break out the triton charger.

I balance all my lipos during or after each charge. I have not had any balloon and can charge all the batteries I need in a couple hours.

johnpcunningham

A balancer simply discharges one to two cells that are of higher charge than the lowest charged cell. It is not required to blanace every charge, but it does not hurt either. Rule of thumb is about every 10 charges.
LIPOs generally do not balloon during a charge, only when they have had a lot of current pulled through them. Charging two lipos in parallel means that a balancer should not be used during the charge - sorry I did not clarify. One could put on the balancer after charging and let it sit unilt balanced. Tradeoffs are charging time vs balancing after every charge. Simply suggestions based on experience. Either way, the LIPOs should be balanced but ehy do not lose the balance that much after a single charge.

JC

cjg

The original question was if anyone knows an adaptor cable to balance charge thunder power lipo's on the PZ lipo charger. I have the same charge and would like to know this too? Anyone?

Gryphon

johnpcunningham,

1st, I want to mention that I don't claim to be an expert on this subject.
I do believe you are making a mistake by charging two batteries in parallel at the same time on a single charger.

When the current flows out of the charger, you have no way of knowing how much current is going into each battery.
No reason to think that they are getting equal amounts.
Path of least resistance: one battery will get more current, and one will get less.
How much different?; well that depends on if both batteries are identical and in same shape or not...even then, they may not get the same exact amount.

You are risking it. Go ahead and risk it if you want...but I'm not so sure that you should pass on info like that unless you have verified it. Maybe you have.

Use a wattmeter on each pack to see if they are getting the same current flow.
Better yet, do that on a digital charger to compare mAH, if not a 3rd wattmeter can be used.
If numbers add up then you know that the individual meters are reading correctly.
_______________

Again: I'm not the expert on this subject it just seems wrong.

You can be more sure that you are doing it correctly if the technicians of various battery companies agree with you.

So give them a call to be sure.

Here is the phone number for Thunder Power RC: (702) 228-8883
Try and find a more seasoned tech when you call.
________________
Thunder Power Balance procedure for multiple packs: Upper part of page 1 and pages 3-4.

http://thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/TP210V%20Manual.pdf

They do it in series and it is very procedural and specific with 100% chance of smoking the balancer with 1 wrong move. I believe it makes no difference if being charged or not.
Yes, I smoked my $100 TP-210 balancer due to their BAD English in the manual. I made them warranty it. They have since improved the instructions somewhat.


Gryphon

johnpcunningham

No worries,

I'm an electrical engineer and I have been digging in on these planes and such so here is my scoop. Some of it may be obvious, some not so I apooligies for the basics.

PARALLEL BATTERY CHARGING
A single 11.1v LIPO is nothing more than three 3.7v cells in series. Charging them is done by running a high current through them so that the positive ions get dumped into the chemistry. By taking two 11.1v batteries and charging them in parallel, the voltage remains 11.1v but the current capacity doubles (less losses in the charging cables). By increasing (doubling) the current for charging, you can effectively charge two batteries at the same time. The two batteries compensate each other during the charge (commonly done in big rig trucks using multiple batteries in parallel for starting). This should be done without a balancer attached! My reason for the suggestion is this can be done in the field if you want to charge your batteries over and over while flying. Once back home, go ahead and charge each one individually using a balancer. Charging a few times without a balancer will not hurt the battery at all. I've done this many times and have runn batteries in parallel in my planes to increase the flying time.

On the other hand, you could also charge them in series. Simply double the voltage rating but keep the current charge rate the same. So two 11.1v batteries in series would yield a 21.2v setting but the rate of charge chould still match the battery's Mha rating. But some chargers might have a problem charging at that higher voltage or unable to.

From an engineering point of view, current does not flow to the path of least resistance but the path of least impedence. This includes both capactivie and inductive effects. In high frequency, skin effects and dielectrics of the FR4 boards start to take over, but that would never happen in the RC world - the MHz is too low.

LiPo batteries have a very specific charge profile as compared to NiMh or NiCd. The first stage of the charge cycle is a constant current charge until the battery voltage reaches 4.1 to 4.2
volts per cell. Once this peak voltage is met, the charger switches to a "constant voltage charge" is started - and held until the charge current reduces to 3% of the rated current.

Parallel charging assumes the following:
1) Batteries are not damaged
2) Batteries have the same boltage rating (i.e. 11.1, 7.4)
3) Batteries do not use a balancer during the parallel charge process (although I have)

I do this all of the time in the field, but always balance "each" battery individually when I return to home base. Anyway, that is my take. Try it it you wish - avoid it if you don't want to.

PARKZONE ADAPTERS
Not sure if anyone makes them but I'm sure you could make your own. The key is knowing the connector and the pinout. On Thunder power batteries, the 7.4 uses 3 of the 4 wires and leaves the orange one disconnected. On the 11.1, all of them are used. Use a voltage meter to measure between the wires. for an 11.1, you will find a ground, a 3.7v, a 7.4v, and an 11.1v. This means that each wire is connected in between each cell and that is how the balancer knows what each cell is charged to. Differential measurements. Check on Digikey for Tyco or Molex to see if there are connectectors you can buy. You will also need the wires and the male pins.


JC

JDV500

john ,

i have a question for you. but first here's the adapter lead that is being asked for; it's made by;
common sense rc
p/n; tp2cs3
labeled; adapter cord 2 or 3 cell pack, thunder to parkzone charger.
cost; $2.95 online or at your lhs.

my question is; i have this adapter installed, locks in place on the male-female connection real solid. however, i'm popping/burning the fuse that sits atop the parkzone charger/ balancer.
it has the stock purple #3 fuse in it. what would you suggest to get this to work.? they sell the adapter cord for this set up, my lhs snapped it together for me and said an additional charger would'nt be needed.
what are your thoughts.?

thanks in adv.

johnpcunningham

I would suggest a 3 to 5 amp slo-blo fuse. Get them at Radio-shack.

Slo-blo means the filiment is a wound wire instead of a thin wire. It can take surges better but will still blow if the current is too high.
My guess for current rating is charge rate the charging rate of the battery ~ 2.2amps divided by the efficiency which I will
estimate to be around 70% (0.7). 2.2/.7 is about 3.15 amps.

JC