Mikerjf-RCU

Been looking at the plans and I've been checking through the posts. The elevator looks a little small and seems to restrict the rudder throw, any benefits/drawbacks to changing it? Some posts mentioned moving the rudder/elevator servo's to the tail, any pro's or cons to this? Appreciate any feedback.

Mike

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

Mike, the rudder has enough throw it will Knife edge loop no problem. On my second I did add counter balances at the tips to make it like a Top Cap in size. One thing that you need to do is shorten the ailerons 1/4 inch on the inboard end. The stock set up will hit the fuse with extreme throws. These changes may not make much difference, but my new one does fly better. It is also lightened quite a bit 3.25 lbs ready to fly. Tom

latch66

3dreaming,

What size did you make your elevator counterbalances?

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

No need to change the tail at all. PLENTY of authority.
I agree with Tom on the aileron mod though.

coony2787

My Feedback: (33)

yeah i would change the elevator myself. mine just seams to need a tad more elevator to me! iam going to add counter balances to mine while iam rebuilding. just my .02 cents worth
Chad

BTW, the rudder has plenty of authority

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

The counter balances can be seen in the picture I posted. On the plans if you go just outside the middle diagonal on the horizontal, and end the stab there is about right. the counter balances are the same size as the Top Cap. Wayne, the new airplane will tumble and spin like a Top Cap while retaining the other good character of the sledge. Tom

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Very cool.

JWilliams

My Feedback: (6)

Go ahead and shorten your ailerons, the plans will reflect that soon. However, when you do an elevator and turn on the spoilerons the current setup allows no air passage as they are right next to the fuse when fully up. However, 3Dreaming did shorten his 1/4 with no loss of performance. The current setup is fine, you do have to have extreme throws for it to touch and at that level of throw you probably got too much but lets change it. The elevator being bigger does not equal more performance. There comes a point you will get negative flight characteristics with too much elevator. Now with that said, if you want to counterbalance your elevator I doubt you will see much difference. I have two out there with the counterbalance and not much if any difference. It is OK to do this but flutter is more likely on a counterbalanced surfaced. Watch your speed!!! If anyone does what 3Dreaming did you better be careful as he took sheeting out and cut holes all over the place which is fine he is a very experienced flier.( His real trick is the lightweight wood and engine though.) All I am saying is be careful in what you do when modifying it. My email is [email protected] if you want to talk to me fee free. Jeff Williams

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

What engine / radio gear did you use?

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

I just wanted to say how impressive Jeff Williams is to me. First off, the Sledge must be one heck of a plane. (It's on a very short Christmas list, Jeff) Jeff is obviously very passionate about his plane. Somehow ,however, he manages to keep in mind just how many "tinkerers" there are and how much we want to "better" his product. Even when he believes the "mod" is a mistake, he stays cool, and gives good advice without sounding upset. I wish all the companies had a rep like him. Anyway, back to the plane. I just can't see moving the servos back if only 3/4 of an ounce of lead balances it. That probably would end up changing the CG enough to need nose weight. Aren't mini servos about 3/4 to 1 ounce each? Maybe just one servo back there?Also I'd be very careful when changing a stick and sheet fuselage at all. The tail of a plane like this puts lots of torque on the fuselage. Just a word of caution. Also there is a thing called the pendulum effect. When we move weight from close to the pivot point out towards the end of a pendulum, the weight adds to the inertia. I really think the tail mount servos will require, at minimum, the engine be set forward a bit. As the weight of the plane moves away from the center towards the outer areas, the effect is a reality. If at all possible, keep the weight as close to center as possible. IMO

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

Paul, Mine is set up with HS225's, and a HS81 on throttle. It also has 720nimh battery, and standard receiver. For motor I'm using a HP.40, Macs header, and a mousse can. It turns a modified Zinger 11x4 prop. I think I'm going to install a lighter receiver, and some park flyer wheels to save an other ounce.
Tailtwister, the HS225's are about an ounce each. On both my airplanes I have the batteries behind the servos, and the engine as rearward as I can. Tom

Mikerjf-RCU

Appreciate the input from all of you! Have to agree with TailTwister regarding Jeff Williams, I’ve seen his responses in several threads and he always has a professional attitude regarding his design. As an engineer myself, I’m all too familiar with those who don’t understand two basic tenet’s 1- Nothing is perfect, everything is compromise. 2- There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. End of soapbox, back to the Sledge.
Based on your inputs I’m going to leave the tail alone and add 1/4 inch clearance to the ailerons. Seems the key to any performance gain is keeping it light. Still debating about the servo’s though, TailTwister mentioned what concerns me the most, moving the servo’s back should make it spin better, but will make it harder to get out. Actually I’ve got an ulterior motive for making changes, this is a great plane and I had to have one, but it won’t fit into my airplane carrier (1972 Volvo P1800ES) as designed, so mine’s got to be two piece. Getting the servo’s out of the wing will help. (No! I'm not buying a bigger car.)

Thanks again

Mike

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

You should try to load it in the back seat diagonally with the wing going from front to back.... You'll have to move your seat up to get it in.. then you can move it back after you load it....

I'm getting my Pizzaz in the back seat of my Ford Contour... I even loaded my SuDoKhoi on top of it one day... boy that was a squeeze.....

latch66

Then get a trailer for your planes!

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

I just bought a Suburban. Now that's a plane hauler!

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

I heard that!!! My other car is a Suburban.... Gator and I had 6 profiles in the back of that thing with flight gear and two coolers... Man what a haul!!!

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

For all who are interested my first Sledge was from one of Jeff's pre-production kits, and the second was scratch built with jeff's help. The first airplane was to give him feedback on design and building. The second airplane is an experiment on my part. Jeff has flown both airplanes, and if there is an improvement that he likes he can make changes if he wants. I would like to think that I'm working with him to make a good airplane even better. The airplane as designed is a good airplane that most people can fly and have no trouble with. My lightweight airplane on the other hand will not take a lot of abuse, and is not for every flier. For me however I will risk having damage from a hard landing ect. for the sake of having a light airplane. If it gets banged there will not be much left, as there was not much there to start with. Tom

Badge

My Feedback: (21)

Keep that info coming I just ordered one tonight from Morris Hobbies looking forward to this little machine!

Thanks
Mike Badger
www.Aero3D.net

JWilliams

My Feedback: (6)

3Dreaming is correct, we are friends and we work together exchanging ideas. The lightweight was initially his idea but together (him mainly) we have an airplane that beats the advertised weight. So it can be done. If you guys want a lightweight like 3Dreamings, buy the short kit from Morris, then buy contest balsa and way more 1/4 sticks that you need so you can sort them for the lightest. Is this plane the perfect plane, no the perfect plane is the one you enjoy flying the most. But 3Dreaming or myself will help you however we can. I do appreciate the comments about me in the above replies, I hope I can meet all of you at a fly in or something. If any of you can make the profile fly in at Memphis, TN I should be there and we can meet, 3Dreaming may come also and bring lightweight. For now I am packing and getting ready to board a plane and go to Vegas, there is supposedly a little 20 person flying tournament out there. Just thought I would check it out. Jeff Williams

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Yeah. I heard something about that....probably nobody good there though.

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

As Jeff said in post 19 buy the short kit, and some contest balsa. He also said buy more 1/4 in sticks than you need. I cut my 1/4 in sticks myself from the contest balsa. This was my first time doing this, and I think I will keep it up. I think I can beat the 3lb mark with a little more work. Tom

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

I want to see it weigh nothing.....Zero.......Nada......Zip!

Badge

My Feedback: (21)

How do you guys think an OS 50SX would fly this plane?

Thanks
Mike Badger
www.Aero3D.net

WreckRman2

My Feedback: (5)

Sure it'll fly it but so would an OS40LA however I feel the best engines for these profiles is a Saito 72. Loads of low end torque, ability to swing a 13x6 prop, quite running, better on fuel, light at 16.6oz with muffler and 3D's the hell out of them. On the other side they are $225 engines...

Badge

My Feedback: (21)

After reading some reviews and info on other posts I have decided to go with an Irvine 53 for my sledge.