Kevin,

I'm about 1/2 way done with the Ecstasy and have a few questions. Yes, I've been taking my sweet time with it, but that's due to my unfortunate work schedule. Anyhow, to the questions.

1. How did your prototype balance out? IE, where do you have the engine on the rails, where do you have your battery, etc, etc. I realize that due to the design of your wing that the CG is physically further back than it appears(using the spar as a refernce). Reason I ask this is because my engine is going to be a bit heavier than your ST90 setup.

2. I'm putting a large 4stroke in the plane (saito150) so do you recommend beefing anything up, and do you recommend I bolt the mount to the firewall with something other than 5-32? (I realize the 150 is rather large for this bird, but I fly at around 6000ft, and it's not much different in weight/power than the ys120)

Guess that's it for now. When I get a little further in the project I'll open up a new thread and post some pics. As it stands I have both wings done (minus some sanding) and I'm framing up the fuse.

Kevin

Please let me know how your's works out. I've been thinking about getting one of these of for my Saito 1.80. My choices are between the OMP GS edge 540, the aeroworks extra and the Ecstasy. Right now I'm leaning towards the OMP edge. Thanks

Jason

Holly Cow - A Saito 150!
PWRDrill - I balanced mine at 1/4" behind the spar. I put my batt. pack next to the throttle servo. You may need to put your batt. pack in the tail section. Mount your Saito 150 as close to the firewall as possible. I would install oversized tri-stock behind the firewall. I would also drill the firewall about every inch along the sides in a 45-degree angle to the firewall, through the firewall, through the tri-stock and out the fuse side. Install 1/8" dowels using 30-minute epoxy. Once dry, sand the dowels flush with the firewall and the fuse sides. You may want to consider installing 1/16" balsa sheet between the first and second wing ribs from the root of the wing top and bottom. I would think that this is optional.

Here is a quote from another Ecstasy customer of mine. I hope that he doesn't mind.

"Today the xtc took to the sky. It performed beautifully for initial flights.Did waterfalls , flat spins both upright and inverted, and all the standard stuff. It is a little nose heavy at 1/4 in behind the spar. I have changed that by moving the battery to under the wing tube. I may need more rudder throw also, only about 30 degrees at the present. It hovers very very easily. Will have you pictures tomorrow , in fact will have some E-mailed to you. I forgot my camera and no one else had one. The nose still looks funny to me,however, everyone else likes it. Will let you know more tomorrow. Incidentally, the weather was gorgeous, low 70's. wind 5-8 mph straight down the runway. Florida does have its advantages--sometimes! Pratt "

As least Pratt offers you another opinion.
Hope that this helps.
Let me know if you have any other questions, or I can be of any further assistance. I am curious to hear how your Ecstasy comes out with the Saito 150 (I still can't believe it!)
Kevin

Flyboone,

I'll let you and everyone know how it turns out. Unfortunately, at my current rate and workload, it will still be a few weeks till maiden.

If I lived at sea level I would have certainly put a Saito100 in it, but the 100 just won't put out the power up here at this elevation. The 120? Well, that weighs about the same as a 150 and far less power. The 180 weighs around the same as well but I believe that it shakes too much for the airframe. So the 150 it is. I'm fairly excited, can't wait to wring this thing out. I'm saving up my pics as I build to post as I near completion.

Kevin

Forget it Jason! Go with one of your other choices. My Ecstasy is ballistic with a ST90! The Saito 180 is way - way too heavy. I design my aircraft to be awesome with the engine recommendations that I suggest. Mine hovers at less than 1/4 throttle now, and is still not completely broken in yet! I am not like the Big Boys. I fly what I design. Do yourself a favor Jason, unless you want to purchase a different motor, then go with one of your other choices. You won't be happy with the Saito 180 on an Ecstasy.
PWRDrill is flying at 6000 ft, Boone, NC can't be anywhere close to that elevation to consider putting 180 4C on a 90 2C / 120 4C aircraft.
I haven't flown either one of your other choices, but I guarantee that you'll be happier with one of them over the Ecstasy with your Saito 180. Don't take me wrong - I want my customers to be happy with my designs and products. I hold a high standard. Remember that I do this for the love of the hobby - because there is sure as heck no money in it!!
Kevin

Kevin, Thanks for being honest. I guess I'll try the OMP Edge because I hear it builds easier than the AW extra. I have also been wanting to get a Saito 1.00 and a U-Can-Do 3d. but I really like your your design and look much better. Besides there are too many U-Cans out here anyway. I really appreciate your honesty and love for this hobby. As soon as I get a suitable engine, I'll be placing an order and as soon as my friend t-rolls his U-Can into the ground I'll recomend the Ecstacy as a replacement.

Jason

PWRDrill
I will be starting my ecstasy in a week or 2. Gathering wood now which may take a while because this time I am going to hand pick as much wood as possible for lightness. Let me know if you have any building tips or changes along the way. And kevin you know it's everything I can do to keep from making that elevator a bit bigger for tighter waterfalls, Please give me your opinion on lengthening the fuselage a bit to make it a little less short coupled, did you every try a prototype with a longer fuselage

Smallfly,

I was forced to make a very tough decision with what motor to build the plane with. Altitude kills. So with some trepidation I decided to put a saito 150 in it. Therefore I will be reinforceing the nose and maybe adding some sheeting to the wings (at Kevin's suggestion). This goes against my love of a light fun-fly, but this bird has a HUGE wing area, and shouldn't effect it TOO much.

The instuctions for building are pretty good. I think I may have found a typo (I'll let you know about that kevin) but it didnt' effect the building process at all. The build goes fairly smooth, and easy with good tips in the manual.

Kevin did a great job packing and shipping the kit. I would highly recommend this kit to anybody on "the edge" of deciding what to do next. Ya' gotta love a big funfly with removable wings that is super light.

Kevin

Thanks for the vote of confidence PWRDrill.
SmallFly - I wouldn't suggest that you lengthen the fuse, unless you relocate the servos up into the fuse, otherwise it won't respond nearly as well. No I didn't prototype one with a longer fuse.
Hope that this helps!
Kevin
P.S. for the delayed response. I've been in Puerto Rico on business.

I've got my wood and will be starting it in a few days. I will leave it alone as I really want the ability to do a pure upright flat spin, I just thought it might hover a little better being a bit longer. Some flying buddies are scaling a 80" ohio edge profile to 65" so it will be interesting to see how the 2 fly together. I do think I might do something a little different with the nose though. I guess we will worry about it when the time comes.
Kevin. Would you have any extra Ecstasy decals or vinyl lettering

Tom, I had a local vinyl cutter place cut mine. I only had one set cut for my aircraft, though I had them save the file. Mine were $20 to have them cut out, that included the HSRCM.COM lettering on both sides of the wings as well.
Kevin

Kevin,
How do you think your Ecstasy would fly with a Saito 100 at or around sea level?

Wade

Wade, I just looked at the specs for the Saito 100. Horizon states that it puts out 1.8 HP on 30% heli fuel. I am flying mine with a ST90 that supposely puts out 2.5 HP. Personally I beleive that the Saito 100 would fly the Ecstasy. It would certainly hover it, though I am skeptical of it authority of pulling out of a hover. I don't know about you, but I sure as heck don't want to have to buy 30% heli fuel all the time - too expensive. I would much rather buy a bigger motor. I personally would not want a Saito 100 on my Ecstasy. I would go with the Saito 120 though. I am sure that you are asking because you probably have a Saito 100 already. IMHO, I would look for a different aircraft for that Saito 100. You can purchase a ST90 from Tower for under $150. I love mine.
Sorry I couldn't give you a better home for your Saito 100, but I hate to see anyone puchase and build one of my designs and not be happy with it.
Take Care & Happy Holidays!
Kevin

Kevin,

What about the Moki 1.35 on the Ectasy ? Weighs a mere 3.2 oz more than your ST90. Sure , it would have much more power than is really needed but it can swing a much larger prop and I'll wager the throttle transition and powerband would be much, much nicer !

If you remember me I was real interested in the Ecstasy when you were first designing it and I still am but Im now into the larger stuff.
If you ever design a 80"+ ws short kit designed around the Moki 2.10 I'll be ALL over that !
Have you ever thought about such a plane ?


Merry Christmas all,

John

The Moki would work I guess, but I'd prefer a Webra 1.20 since it should be lighter.

Yes the Webra seems to me to be another quality choice. Horizon says the weight of the 1.20 is 26ozs but I bet thats w/o muffler so they probably are close to the same weight.
However, with that said, both would be close in power with the Moki having a slight advantage I guess.
Both engines would be "quality" choices.
What do you think Kevin ? Too much power ?

-John

Yeah, the Moki is a little lighter than I thought. It and the Webra are probably close. I think the Webra is at least $50 cheaper. Either one would turn the Ecstasy into a rocket in the vertical.

Wade

Johnhardy,
Did you check out the videos of the Ecstasy on Kevin's website? Pretty good videos.

Wade

Guys - Guys, you are treating me, HSRCM, Inc. like we all treat the big boys, i.e. Horizon & GP. I design my aircraft to be rockets with the recomended motors. If it won't hover at about 1/4 throttle, and pull out with great authority, then I don't want it. You guys forget that I design aircraft for me first, and oh by the way, I offer a kit for those that are interested. Both the Webra 120 and the Moki 135 are a drastic overkill and will create balancing issues and structural problems over time. Like I told Wade, the Saito 100 will fly the Ecstasy just fine, but I wouldn't want it.
As far as a 80" wing span Ecstasy, that is the Ecstasy Extreme and is in design. It is approx. 84" wing span, the ailerons are an intregal part of the airfoil, it has a full flying tail. I've got the wing ribs almost ready to be laser cut for the proto-type. I am designing around a ZDZ 40 to 60. I don't plan jon kitting this one, Too expensive for me to keep in inventory. I carry too much inventory as it is. The Ecstasy Extreme will be cut to order, if anything.
Happy Holidays!
Kevin

Kevin,
I was thinking that in 5 years time HSRCM, Inc. was going to own Horizon and Hobbico! Trust me, I can see into the future. You may as well hire me on as HSRCM's President and COO right now so we can get to work! How do you like that Christmas humor?

Wade

You'll have to talk to my wife, she is listed as the president of the company. I did this for tax purposes.
Sorry, position taken. And I have no interest to taking over Horizon.
Wade - you're scaring me. I don't want to make this into a job! I enjoy it too much to ruin it! <LOL>
Kevin

Hehe! Your wife will have to resign as the President and become the Chief Financial Officer to handle all the money you'll be making once we topple the "giants"! I figured you'd just fly all day and let the company run itself under my great leadership!

If you build it light at around 7.5 lbs the saito 100 would be an awesome motor for this combo. If the weight creeps up past 8 it will start to suffer. I think an ecstacy at 7.5 LBs with a saito 100 would be a very good combo. I have an OS 91 fx on mine and I had a saito 100 on an aerowrks edge at almost 9 lbs. I t would not pull out of a hover very well at almost 9 lbs but the worst case is you could use 25% nitro in the 100 and built light It would be an awesome combo. If you allready have It I would use it.

Smallfly,
Yes, I have a Saito 100 that I'm going to fly on my UCDO3D. Do you think it would be fairly easy to keep the weight at no more than 7.5 pounds? The Saito is about the same weight as the 91FX.

Wade

Wade, first of all, I have yet to see any company that will "run by itself" <LOL>
As far as the Ecstasy at 7-1/2 lbs, mine is at that weight, and I took out some aircraft ply out of the design after mine. So it can be done to say the least.
As I said before, I only have 2 Ecstasys ready to shipm and I do not know when they will be available again due to sub-supplier issues.
I hope Santa was good to you, and if not just order the Ecstasy off of my website and you'll feel better <LOL>
Kevin