Spacey

So here's the deal folks! I need your help! And I need everybody's help! Not a single post in this thread will be frowned upon! So let me explain the situation quickly. In 2004 I competed in the South African national fun fly masters and promised myself I would never do it again unless things change dramtically. Well since I started flying Helicopter precision aerobatics (F3C) I thought I need something fun to keep me going on the planes too and well decided to change things on the fun fly side myself.

Now the biggest problem I had was with the model that is used in the fun fly locally which is a locally designed model called the Shotgun. Now this plane is absolutely amazing in all respects and just about the only thing that competes! It's as stable as anything anyone's ever flown yet amazingly manuverable and it never stalls! Now this is largely due to the fact that the model has 50 inches of wing span and a rather large cord too giving it huge amounts of wing area and still we build them to only weigh 3.2lbs with an Irvine .39 on a tuned pipe. But here's my problem with the plane! It's about as boring to fly as anything you've ever seen too. It can't 3D at all and wingrocks out of control in the high alpha stuff. You simply can't have any fun with it unless you're flying a competition. Now this didn't help keep me motivated. Please see the attached pictures for my old plane I competed with last time. The one picture shows the model standing on it's nose on my little scale showing the weight of the plane without only the reciever battery (And that's only a couple of oz).

Now I started thinking. Surely I would really be able to use a 3D capable model to my advantage in things like spot landings..bomb drops..and limbos? I needed something stable! Something strong! And as light as possible! Why don't we give the OMP 47" Edge 540 a go?

Right so I got the kit at home. Still wrestling through all my ideas on what I want to on the airframe and guidance system. I got a couple of things on the bench at the moment but hope to get started on the build within the next couple of weeks. Only things that are for sure now is that I'll be using my trusty old OS .46 FX with tower muffler on this one. The tetherite gear will definitely stay. And there's going to be a wee bit of carbon going into this model. I have a bunch of 12K carbon rovings on the shelf which is going to be used to add some strength here and there for fun. Some wood will be swopped out and i'm definitely buying a hole saw to attack the fuselage with.

Now if anyone has any suggestions regarding servos...construction techniques..or well if you just want to chat along in the thread please chime in!

_James_

Spacey, first time on RCU, glad i signed up?

great to see your still loving the planes, dont get sucked into those helis...

looking forward to the build, hope that FX isn't coming out of the katana? interested to see where you strengthen the kit, will sure make for a nice bird... also looking forward to the covering, you always do a nice job.

good luck!

James

Spacey

James old boy WELCOME! Finally decided to come play with the good folks on the cool forums have you?

Darn helis sure are addictive and boy oh boy all the TLC they need is amazing. I spend about 40 times as much time just working on the darn eggbeater as I do flying it. But in the end it's all worth it I suppose. They sure are impressive to fly.

The FX this one is getting is a motor I got lying around. Haven't used it in a bit but I know it's the most reliable one I have and she screams like a 40 year old women that just caught her husband coming in late...drunk. The Katana will never lose its motor and well neither will the yak. Those two are part of my flagship fleet and they gotta stay alive all the time..just like the eggbeater.

Now regarding the covering? Well that's an interesting one and I'd take any suggestions on the matter too as I haven't considered any color schemes. It will definitely be a transparent scheme though and be done with Ultracote. The covering needs to be as light as possible and also very important is to use a scheme which will use the least covering and be the easiest to patch up. Like for example the scheme on the plane in the first post was intentionally done as boring for those purposes. These planes tend to take quite a beating in competition so we dont want theme losing all their flair from patch jobs. But we will do something nice with also some promotional decals etc. [8D]

joeyc

Have you thought about trying a minus or menace? Competion funflys that are more 3D capable than what you described? They build around 3 lbs. or less.

Regards.

Spacey

joeyc: Thanks for the input. I haven't considered one of those but mostly because I'm a huge OMP fan. Mike's planes are just so incredibly predictable through the whole flight envelope and that scores big points with me. I did a quick search on the two planes you just mentioned but can't seem to find anything but really old threads on them? Some really old designs I pressume? Some of the threads also stated it's quite hard to get a hold of kits for them, is this true? I couldn't find a website with them on google but maybe I missed it. You don't perhaps have a picture handy? It can tell you now though that I would not buy a kit this year but it might be something to consider for future use. I'd be interested in the look of the model though. Maybe I can steal some ideas from it.

wagas

Here you go Spacey..
I've built the minus before...just a tad different than the menace. Power was webra 32 hot little fun fly but nothing compared to what can be done with the modern profiles.

It's not so much the airframe that makes it great but the design..very very durable, this is what Paul Swany adapted to the burrito, mojo and his other planes as well. I've smacked my Mojo 40 so hard so manytimes and the worst I've ever done is bust the horz stab loose or knocked the rudder out...very easy fixes compared to rebuilding whole fuses that are broke behind the wings.

With the boom you are basically building surface area's above and below the boom..no real strength required and can be built out of nothing but 5/16 - 3/8 square sticks...about the only areas you might want to add just a little more thickness to is below the bottom of the motor, bottom of the fuse should be a hard balsa or even a small CF rod plus an area to grab for hand launches or catches.

It's really a no brainer with the boom. I took 2 of OMP small edges and tossed the fuse, redesigned the wing center section to accept the boom and ply motor mount and boom support plate. The only mistake I made was using lite ply for a motor/landing/boom support...if you want I've got some pics I can show (if I can find them...heh heh) one of them was in the omp gallery..I was holding an ORANGE one in my hand with skeleton hands across the top...unfortunatly it met it's demise when I forgot my TX was on the wrong airplane, took off and EVERYTHING was backwards........but the boom and wing didn't break on my motor mount....might still rebuilt it one day...heh heh..!

Anyway just some ideas...

joeyc

I think the stick (fiberglass or carbon fiber) designs have been around for awhile, but these two models are relatively new. Here's a link to the competition funfly sub-group within AMA. I ordered the Minus by e-mailing Skip Turner and sending a PayPal payment. $70 which included shipping (at least in US) and some hardware. These two models or very similar designs have won all the US competitions lately. Can also hover and do the high alpha stuff. Designed for slow flight with an interesting air foil.

There is some discussion on the models in this forum if you do a search. Also Paul Swany has a build of a Menace on his website. I think its swanyshouse.com.

Does the Edge have a foam core? I would think cutting holes would really weaken it. I've built the OMP Yak and Kantana.

[link]http://www.ncffafunfly.com[/link]

Regards.

_James_

crazy looking thing ^^

go the Edge!

get to it spacey... now! not 2 weeks~!

Spacey

Wagas: Thanks for the info buddy! Hows things going on your side? Haven't seen you around the forums too much lately? Anyways I can see from the picture of that minus how it's going to lack a little here and there in the flight envelope when compared to the profiles we're flying today. However I also noticed that the construction used on the wing of that model is nearly identical to the construction on the wing of the shotgun I posted in my first post. If one looks at the wing leading edge sheeting and the wingtips etc they resemble each other quite a bit. I'm planning on doing some changing on the Edge's sheeting arrangements as well as soon as I can figure out what kind of aerodynamic effects those changes are going to have. Like if one were to only do half the leading edge section in sheeting and just follow with cap strips the rest of the way.

The fuselage construction is definitely a good way to go and I remember the one Edge you're talking about with the skeleton hands. That plane looked great! Do you think though that going with a tube is the only way to still get strength into the fuselage? I was planning on adopting what was done with the OMP Fusion rather to make the re-engineering bit on the fuselage easier. I am looking at basically creating a carbon "I-beam" the full bottom of the fuselage and also the whole cockpit area to the back. Then I also intend on adding some strips of carbon rovings under the sheeting covering the sides of the fuselage around the servo wire channel and of course just behind the wing. I did the whole FG tube thing on the Boxxer and it worked great but I hated the whole covering and well assembly of the fuselage afterwards. The fus sure seem strong (Sorry haven't gotten around to dorking my Boxxer yet ) but it's also a little wobbly? Not near as rigid as a foam fuselage?

Anyways..the fuselage is definitely one of the things I'm still working over in my mind a bit. Only one chance to get it right with my financial standings so I'm not going to rush things.

Spacey

joeyc: Thanks for the info mate. I'll check out that link you posted. Our fun fly comittee this year is really looking at changing the rules and the competition a little to try and get things on a more intl. level to open the doors for international competition in future. We might see things like the Minus becoming a little more competitive this side too but I also think the design of that model could be improved quite a bit.

Regarding the fuselage though if you refference my previous post you'll see what I intend on changing in order to get the holes in there. Sure the foam core fuselage design in itself might not favour a bunch of lightening holes but if the carbon comes into play I'm sure i'll be able to swing it without ending up with a weak fuselage.

Spacey

Hehehe..it does look kinda odd doesn't it? I want to start but yea I need to clear up the building board while I wait for those servos coming for my mildliner from Paul. I want to see if those GWS 2BB/MG's might be up to the task of guiding one of these profiles around. The specs sure make them over qualified but if their going to be up to it in real life is a good question.

wagas

Yep...don't get on here that much anymore since where I work pretty much blocks most larger forums from access...and with most the LAN work I do during the day the last thing I touch at home is the computer...heh heh...
If ya ever wanna yell at me PM me your email addy... miss chat'n with ya during your boxxer build....

Boxxers tube is smaller and flexible compared to the FB one that is in the mojo kit.

Your right about the menace and minus..they more designed for FUN FLY comps like the Stick Its and Jump-n-Geo's

I just think that a fully sheeted foam fuse and having to build carbon I beam is a lot more work...I like the easy way Out...HEH HEH

If ya go the boom route and need some drawings to make it work me know... I'll show ya what to modify...there's really nothing to it.
The other boom advantage is the self alignment of the wing to fuse.
The edge is a real good platform for what you want.. for more stability widen the elevator at least an inch on either side.
I'm at the point on most the airplanes I build I go to 50% to 60% of the wingspan.

Here's my latest design (not to interupt the thread only to show ya) ..I call it the raptor after the mono-wing version of the Pitts S12..
I tried the low wing thing on this profile to see how it did....nah..I'm gonna make the next one 0/0 with the motor and elevator.. other than that it was a fun project...

Good luck with your project dude! I'll be following when I can.

Spacey

Hi Wagas,

Cool looking plane that! Reminds me a bit though of my GP Gee Bee with the wing and stab positions. Thanks for the info on the stab size. You think it's going to be ideal though to try and race the stability of the Edge more? I don't know I've never flown the OMP Edge so it's new territory but the little Yak I got is extremely stable for me already. Now the Edge is supposedly more stable so it should be ok right? I'm a little worried about it getting too stable as you struggle then to get decent fast spins and snaps out of. Having a nice and stable model helps though during stuff like touch and goes etc as you can push the envelope that little further and rely on the plane to help fight the battle.

Below is a little sketch (Please ignore my lack of artistic skills to accurately sketch the Edge fus outline) showing the positions of the carbon (In red) as I got things planned now. The top and bottom of the fuselage will basically first get a cap all around to get things straight etc. Then a strip of 12K carbon rovings worked onto that following another cap. The carbon covering the fuselage side will just be sandwiched between the foam and the fuselage sheeting. Now firstly to save some weight here I'm going to swop the supplied sheeting in the kit with competition grade balsa and that should save a wee bit. Of course some carefull sanding after the fuselage is complete helps on these things too. I played a little with lightning hole layouts just now too and that is going to be a tricky one. The nose of the model will definitely get some through the ply doublers etc but i'm not too sure about anything behind that. I'll still figure it out. I might just cut out the Edge cockpit area and then the odd hole in the tail of the fuselage.

Spacey

Right just some useless information regarding the servos I plan to use in this one. I am waiting for a bunch of them to first try out in a glider/hotliner model I am finished with (Just waiting for the guidance system). Only thing that worried me a little about the servos is how good they centre and well if they actually do live up to their advertised specifications but the servos I ordered should be here within the next couple of weeks so I can see for myself. Now alot will frown heavily on the word GWS but I can say for sure that all their servos (Heaps of pico micro servos) I have used they have been nothing short of perfect. Their tough, cheap and do the jobs they are intended for. Half of my foamy fleet and my DLG flies on them. Now if this 2BB/MG servo of theirs lives up to their promise it'll be more than capable of flying a .40 sized profile safely.

Here's the specs:
Size ( L x W x H ) : 28x14x29.8(mm).......1.1x0.55x1.17(in)
Weight : 28gram.......0.98oz
Speed : 0.17 sec/60'
Torque : 5.40kg-cm..........75oz-in

On 6V all the above improves quite a bit but I'm only planning on running 4.8V on this model.

_James_

any news on those servos yet spacey? they going to fit the job?

James

Spacey

Right right I have tried and put the servos through a little bootcamp and I am very impressed. They do definitely live up their promise and the specs are true. Their super strong, very fast and yet light enough to qualify as a mini servo. The glider I used them in had a really bad crash on the maiden due to BEC failure and the servos were locked over hard for quite some time binding while I was looking for the downed remains in the tall grass. It took me a while as the grass are nearly as tall as me (Kinda like finding something in a corn field). Needless to say that event has happened twice now and the servos are still ticking. Guess that qualifies them for the job of flying one of these profiles! Now all I need to do is find a way to make some extra cash so I can get some more of them. The glider is repairable so I don't want to strip the ones I have out just yet.

Right now as for the Edge progress. I have not started on it yet as I still have a heli on the building board I'm having a hard time finishing. Between work and all kinds of other fun things time nor money is on my side. More to follow soon.