pileosticks

This is my new Diamond 3D fun-fly design. stick built fuse partially sheeted. diamond shaped wing profile ala the Mark Shope HOOT. (hence the name diamond 3D). Haven't flown it yet , just finished it tonight. If the weather holds out (supposed to be REAL windy here tommorrow) i'll test fly her tommorrow. heres a few specs for those who are interested.

Wingspan: 42" dual taper, diamond shaped ribs
Chord: 14" root, 8" at the tip
length: 36" (plus another 6" of rudder)
weight: Approx. 3.5lbs dry (my scale is a little wacky)
motor: O.S. 32sx w/ 11x5 prop (for initial flights, will try a
few different props at the field)
wish me luck!

pileosticks

heres another view

pileosticks

and the bottom

kamlooper

My Feedback: (1)

Looks pretty kewl! Quite the chord taper, very radical angle. The ribs must have been easy to make! Take it easy tommorow, let us know how it flys.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I want one! send me yours

Chris 540

My Feedback: (3)

Looks cool!! Is there a reason for the diamond shaped airfoil??

Chris

pileosticks

CHris 540,

The diamond shaped airfoil is borrowed from another plane that I have been flying on and off for awhile now, the Mark Shope HOOT. The HOOT is a stick and boom type competition fun-fly plane that flies and lands super slow and smooth, but give it left stick and it will do anything within the limits of the stick and boom airframe. (no knife edge flight at all and the hoot has NO RUDDER so you can forget about spins and such) But, overall, I was always impressed with the way the plane flew. My aim with the Diamond 3D is to get the same slow speed flight characteristics of the HOOT with the addition of a slightly longer, much taller fuse and 3D size tail surfaces (including, of course, a rudder-finally!). So in answer to your question, I used the diamond shaped airfoil because I liked the way it performed in the air, but I enjoyed flying my profiles more beacause they would simply do more. So I combined what I feel are the best attributes of both designs and the diamond 3D was born.
I haven't flown the plane yet so I hope my T.L.A.R. (That Looks About Right) engineering skills are up to the task. I'll let you know how it goes after I get it in the air.
This is not my first attempt at scratch building a slightly "unusual" design. If you check out the FF forum here on RCU you will find another of my profile planes called "the Wedge" that has been very succesful (there are two planes on the forum called the wedge, mine is the 36" profile job, not the larger box fuse design.) With the wedge my buddy Rick and I wanted to design a small, pure hovering plane that would also 3D. All I can say is WOW! Look for a scaled up version soon on this forum. The Wedge does everything we hoped it would do and more! Hovering is truly effortless and almost automatic, and it will also do all the other required spins and tumbles you might want to throw at it with ease. There are a few pics posted around RCO of the wedge in flight and we intend on putting a video on Rick's website soon. Once again i'll keep you posted.

Scorpionjack

Very Nice aircraft, The Diamond style airfoil came from a U-Control back in the Early 60's.

Foamguy

PileOSticks,

Great idea ! I'm interested in knowing how that diamond shaped foil flies. If Shope designed it, I'm already guessing it works great. Been meaning to try that shape myself. How is the stall ? I would guess pretty violent, considering the sharp leading edge.

On a sidenote, I was inspired by your wedge. Working on my own version now to be powered by Norvel .25. Predicted weight is 2.5 lbs. It is based on my Super Diesel ( See below pic), but with profile built around carbon fiber tube ( ala MS Menace) and CAP style tail. Should have it flying in a couple weeks.

pileosticks

Foamguy,

Glad to hear you liked the wedge enough to give one a shot! Norvel .25 should be plenty of power if you can hit your target weight. Sorry I don't have plans drawn up for you yet, but we just finished the "final-final-revised" version of the plane. If you need any info on the dimensions and moments of the .32 size wedge, let me know. You can probably just use those dimensions and scale it down accordingly to hit your target weight/size for the norvel. Please keep me posted on your progress and let me know if I can be any help.

As far as the diamond shaped wing profile, the stall (at least on my HOOT) is surprisingly gentle and controllable at unbelievably slow speeds, but EXTREMELY snappy and responsive at higher speeds. I don't pretend to understand the aerodynamics of the sharp angular wing vs a more conventional design I just know it seems to work well on the HOOT so I figured I would "massage" it a little on a slightly larger airframe and see what happens. Still haven't flown the Diamond 3D yet as the winds were really blowing here today (25 mph+) but I hope to get it in the air tommorrow morning.

BTW, the Super Diesel looks awesome and by the looks of that hover pic it must be a whole lotta fun!

DonH21

My Feedback: (3)

Pileostick

I hope I'm not out of line, but I'm interested in the diamand shaped wing.
What are the dimentions of the airfoil on the Hoot and also the width of the ailerons?

Does the airfoil creat a lot of drag?

I'm interested in a parkflier type of funfly.
I Have a small pasture next to our house and that would be great to fly in. Ive tried one of my FF, but the landings were a little nerve rattling!! I've got trees around the border.

Don

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Don - sometimes those tree's around the border are a blessing... on windy day's you get a "shielding" from the wind that you would miss at a conventional field... if your flying FunFly, then you can land it on a dime anyway ?!

RickC2009

My Feedback: (12)

wedge!

RickC2009

My Feedback: (12)

A newer pic for Pileosticks

RickC2009

My Feedback: (12)

It flys Great!!!!!
I was unsure of the diamond wing but after flying it I can't believe how smooth it flys!
Good job Pileosticks!
And another pic

DonH21

My Feedback: (3)

Thats one sharp looking plane!!
I like your covering job!!

What does the Diamond 3D weigh?
Are you going to sell plans?

I am interested in flyng in a very small area.
Please tell us more!

Don

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

About the history of diamond airfoils.

The first one I remember was on a Riley Wooten designed control line combat plane. I forget the name, but it came after the VooDoo and the Sneaker.

In RC we had pattern planes with a diamond airfoil on the stabs in the 60's. I believe the first one was used by Jim Kirkland.

For fun fly, the Diamond T and Diamond Unlimiter planes were the first I recall. They won a lot of fun fly competitions so I guess the airfoils are pretty good. These were designed by the same person who also did the Diamond Dust delta.

pileosticks

Thanks! Frankly, I put alot more effort into covering this plane than I usually do! This is my second scratch built-own design plane i've made this month. The first is the Wedge (see photo above) both are great fliers. But I like the Diamond 3D a little better. The Wedge is a pure hovering design, almost hovers by itself, tracks like a pattern ship but very very slowly. The wedge tumbles really well, but the flat spins aren't as fast or as tight as I would like. I am going to scale the Wedge up to a .40 size and make a few small changes to the original design that should make it even better.
The Diamond 3D however, does it all and it does it all very very well. The wingspan is a bit under 42", and the weight is a bit above 3 1/2 lbs. (sorry, my scale is not very accurate, give or take an ounce). No I don't have a completed plan yet, but if there is enough interest I will finish the final plan for those who want it. The Diamond shaped airfoil is a breeze to make and there's only eight ribs to cut, so a first time scratchbuilder should have no problem with this plane.
I meant to post a flight report last week after the maiden flights but I got sidetracked. In a word, it's awesome. Much better than I could have hoped for. I plan on flying it again tommorrow morning, i'll post a full flight report tommorrow night. (I moved the CG back a bit since the first flights and changed the position of the engine slightly so I won't go into too much detail until I fly it again with these minor changes)
BTW- I have already drawn up plans for a third plane, I should begin building it tonight or tommorrow night. This time i've gone away from the profile fuse and am gonna try a more conventional stick built fuse. Very tall, very slender fuse with some room inside for the gear and tank. Kind of short moments, HUGE control surfaces. Nuff said, wait for the pics.
Thanks again, i'll keep you posted on the plans and the progress on the new plane.

rcman-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

It would seem that a diamond airfoil would tend to stall at a shallower angle of attach. The abrupt angular change of the upper wing surface at the high point of the diamond would cause "boundary air layer separation" and cause the wing to stall sooner. This may not be bad, depending on what the pilot wants out of the aiplane.

The second thing I noticed is that the high point of the wing rib is further back as a percentage of wing chord at the tip than at the rib. The location of the high point has a very definite effect on how a wing performs in ways such as stall angle, pitch sensitivity, pitching moment, etc. Maybe someone with knowledge in this area could comment.

If you add these two characteristics to the wings chord thickness at the root and the tip, the wing taper, the sweep angle and reynolds numbers, it would seem to me that there is a lot going on with this wing design. I will be very interested to hear more flight report information from the designer.

DonH21

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Ed for the info.
I enjoy your column!!
RC Report is the best !!

Pileosticks, you've got my attention!

RCman, my thoughts exactly.
Ya right, you guys beleive that right!

Don

pileosticks

Well, once again I got sidetracked and didn't post a flight report sorry, here goes.
Eureka! The Diamond 3D is a great success! As I mentioned in my last post I moved the engine back in the rails a bit and made one or two minor adjustments in an effort to move the CG back a bit, and it seems to be just about perfect now at approx 1" behind the spar. Responsive , but not overly sensitive.
Takeoff with this plane (unlike some of my other fun-fly's) is a total non-event. Apply some throttle, a little right rudder and it just flies itself off the ground....I mean smoooooth. A couple times around the field at altitude to get a feel for the plane, no surprises, just goes where your point it. Slowed it down to see if I could get it to stall, nothing. Another non-event. The stall was just a little forward "mush" didn't drop a wing, just kept flying. Now for the good stuff.
Loops as big as the sky or this wild little "flip-flip-flip-flip" thing like its chasing it's tail, almost like a waterfall but without the fall very cool. Outside loops were the same flip-flip-flip thing with full deflection or big and round with a little (o.k. alot!) less elevator.
Rolls are a complete and total blur, very axial. let go of the ailerons and it just stops rolling in whatever attitude you were in when you centered the stick. Slow rolls and rolling circles (well, at least the best rolling circle I can do) are a pleasure.
Hovering is super stable, just point the nose up and watch it hang there, very nice. Hmmmm I think i'm beggining to like this little plane! Flat spins upright or inverted are pretty tight and very flat (my profile edge definately flat spins tighter and faster, but the Diamond 3D looks better doing it!) Spent the whole day smiling and flying, flying and smiling. I only stopped to refuel. We (rickc2009) and I really put the plane through it's paces. It would do every manuever I am capable of and a few I didn't know I could do. The plane does a really nice blender, a really cool knife edge spin and many, many unnamed tumbles. Lots and lots of fun. The diamond shaped airfoil seems to have no bad habits or tendancies, it flies every bit as well (and in some ways better) than my other FF profiles (profile edge, Morris Knife, Wasp, Fazer).
Now for the bad news, I haven't ironed out the knife edge flight yet. 1/4 roll to knife edge the plane tracks well, as soon as you input rudder to keep the nose up, the top wing rolls to the canopy. Every time, in both directions. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the size/shape of the rudder. I have to re-think the rudder and get back to you on that one. I might try to make it a bit smaller and try a slightly different shape as well. If anyone has any suggestions, i'm all ears!
The bottom line is this, I don't really know a thing about aerodynamics (just the basic basics) and I got very lucky with my T.L.A.R. engineering. But somehow I ended up with two (diamond 3D and the WEDGE) really great flying planes. If anyone has any input, comments or questions just drop me an e-mail or respond here on RCU. Thanks!

irishcarbomb

My Feedback: (4)

Sometimes the "T.L.A.R." engineering is the way to go. "if it looks like it will fly, it probably will." see some pics of the plane i'm designing in the AutoCADLT 98 post in scratch building. every bit of the design has been "T.L.A.R"(except wing). have yet to build it or even cut the kit. soon though.

rob o'

roy_fisher

i am right that next to your name in the side you have a picture of an laser 3d?
if it is...how is this airplane for 3d?
how will he fly with an o.s 46 fx?
thank you
roy

pileosticks

Hey Roy,

Yes it is a Laser 3D you see in my avatar. It was (yes I said was) my all time favorite plane. Is it good for 3D? Oh yeah.
O.S. 46 should be plenty of power. I flew mine with a TSI .46 / APC 12 1/4 x 3 3/4 and it had plenty of power to climb out of hover with authority. Unfortunately, I was practicig REALLY slow, REALLY low knife edge passes (down the grassy area just beyond the runway at our local field) dragging the elevator along the top of the grass about an inch off the ground....errrrr, well, I thought I had an inch. Musta been a little less because I cracked the left elevator half right off. Believe it or else, after the elevator cracked off, I flew the circuit one more time and landed safely, go figure! Truth is, it's an awesome plane (as is the no-limit, the dioblotin, the madness etc...) I will certainly build another. So I say , go for it, you won't be sorry. BTW, the one weak spot on the plane is the HUGE counterbalance on the elevator. When you build one, just watch your glue joints in this area and add a few balsa gussets to strengthin the area where the counterbalance meets the rest of the elevator. Mine cracked in that spot several times (musta been the blenders) before it finally broke off alltogether.
I still have the plane, it's perfect except for the missing elevator half. I would fix it, but I think i'm gonna scratch a new fuse out of very light balsa instead of the light ply the kit comes with. I should be able to save about a pound. Let me know if you want any more info.

roy_fisher

are you sure that the o.s 46 fx will have plenty of power for that airplane?
will i be able to torq roll inches from the ground add full power and i will have unlimited verticle?
because i am thinking betwin the laser 3d and the seduction free style... do you have any sugestions?
another question is that they say you should put standart servos all around and hi torq for the rudder... is that a must?
and las one is how many extanders for the servos will i need?
thank you
roy

p.s - i am sorry for all the questions.