TIA

What's the common practice to set up your wing aileron controls?

I notice most kits come with a hole to mount one standard sized servo. Are you guys cutting out the hole and mounting two servos or just sticking one in, and go race with it?

Anyone care to show pictures of their setup and how they did it? (Looking for ideas here.)

My thinking with two servos is we can run differential between the two with better adjustment. Anyone else subscribe to this?

Just wondering what the racing scene is doing......

TIA.

diggs_74

I think you'll find the majority of guys run one servo on quickies.. However, in Pheonix there were a few that ran 2 on their Q40's.. Something about spoilerons and reducing the AofA in the turns thus having less drag.. Not sure if it works or not, that's just what I heard.

BUDMAN27

I have one in most of my racers , but to be honest I don,t think it mater,s.

jaka

Hi!
I use 1 servo ...most of the time Hs 225 (nylon gears) or Futaba 3002 (metal gears).
On my latest models JR and Futaba digital (S3151) standard servos.

Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

Airbike

My Feedback: (6)

I would like to see if there is any improvement in turning with "snap flaps" IE: at a certain up elev deflection, both ailerons would deflect down to allow really tight turns. In terms of bleeding off speed, there is probably an optimum amount of flaps to use to help the turn while retaining as much speed as possible.

I know that most of the F5F (or F5whatever) slope soaring racers use snap flaps for their pylon racing. Since they are very concerned about energy retention, I would think that there is a benefit in using snap flaps.

Reno, when you were in San Diego, did you notice if the F5B guys used snap flaps for their hotliners?

Perhaps the ailerons are just too small on the typical glow powered pylon racers to do much. The gliders and hotliners have pretty good sized flaps in addition to the outboard ailerons. I suppose in effect they are changing the wing camber during the turns.

Nothing says that a glow powered pylon racer cannot have full span ailerons that would enable snap flaps to be used. Maybe some of the experienced guys have already seen this come and go??

TIA

Hey Airbike!

It’s been in my experience that the only time I’ve seen the snapflap used is in gliders. Mainly F3F pylon course, which I used to race. As you guessed, it’s all about matching energy retention and speed. Gliders have no power but are powered by the energy they are retaining and the wind-created lift. Therefore pushing the nose around a corner can be sped up by increasing the AOA by use of snapflap. Snapflap is utilized by way of flaps and ailerons, so there is a lot of surface area to work for you. But the downside is the loss of energy created by a higher drag.

I’ve often wondered myself if the snapflap would be beneficial on a pylon racer since a powered plane can recover the loss of energy more quickly than a glider can. Although, from the races I’ve seen as of late, I really haven’t seen any problem with the Q500’s getting around a corner! ;-)

In the distant future I have plans to take one of my computer programs for the F3F ships and apply it to the Q500 plane just for kicks & giggles.

Here’s a pic back in the late 90’s with one of my faster planes. I had a total of approximately 6mm of snapflap. (down travel.) Some planes have 3mm, some use 15mm. Different planes required different amounts dependant upon airfoil, planform, weight, and control surface size. And some planes go around corners more quickly where the snapflap is traveling upward! (called reflex)

I didn’t see anyone in SD using SF. It would appear to be too much loss of speed, momentum, and energy for those guys.

An interesting note, I could feel my gliders “groove� around the turns so I was constantly controlling how much I would “pull� around the corners. In times when you came into the turns with a lot of speed you wouldn’t need to pull as hard as other times.

And lastly, snapflap is not a simple thing. It takes years of experience to utilize it correctly, lots of testing, and time experimenting and tweaking here and there with a particular model.

Definitely something to think about though, and definitely something you would need two servos to be able to utilize on a nitro pylon racer.

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Running 2 servos is a total waste of time, and money (for you guys who complain about cost). Differential, why? you only use about 1/16" of throw when flying, the plane is pretty much on it's side for most of the 10 lap run. There isn't a pylon racer in the world that is that good to feel any speed difference from this. So I don't see how confusing ones self with all this will help? Keep it simple is the best advice in the world. Copy what the best guys in the sport do, that's what I did. I went to the races and raced, asked Stu McAfee, Travis Flynn, Gary Schmidt, Jim Allen, Fred Burgdorf... They were all more than willing to show me all there stuff.


Randy Bridge
6X

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with you Randy, but there are a few people using two servos, and doing well. Tim Lime has been using them, as well as near full length ailerons (with about 1/32" throw), I believe Mr. Shadel runs two, and both have won big races in the past year.

As to weather they do any good, I have no idea. Too much hassle for me, 1 servo works fine.

garys

It all depends on the airfoil as to whether there's anything to be gained by mixing flaps. The wing Jim Allen designed for Katz FAI airplane in the late 90's was meant to use them, and they worked. You could see a definate increase in turn exit speed with flaps on versus off. Dave Shadel uses them on his H & M Racing Miss Candace as well and feels there is a difference (as did I when I had a couple Candaces). To make use of them they need to be as close to full span as you can get without flutter, and the airfoil must be one that works with them. Many of the airfoils people use in pylon would not benefit, or may even be hurt by mixing them in. Unless I'm flying an airplane that may benefit from using flaps (Candace, ect), I stick with one servo for simplicity.

Even when an airfoil can benefit from them, the difference is extremely small. Most racers will never notice a difference in their heat times between using them or not.

As far as differential, I do use a little bit, set up mechanically (unless it's an airplane with flaps, in which case I'll do the differential electronically). My planes may not roll 100% axially with full deflection (my Proud Birds usually do, but not always on my Q500's), but they aren't too far off. The way I look at it is in a perfect heat, you only use about 1/16" of aileron travel (like Randy said), but when you have to make a correction and use full travel, I'd like my airplane to roll as axially as possible. If there's any adverse yaw with full aileron deflection, you're effectively flying slightly sideways which is a lot more drag. The last thing I want to do is have something else slowing me down when I've already screwed up and have to make a correction.

GS

TIA

Well said!

TIA

Does anyone have any pictures of their linkages as mounted to a single aileron servo. I'd like to see where on the servo wheel you guys are mounting them. Are you offsetting them at 9 and 3? 10 and 2? 11:59 and 12:01?

Randy Etken

My Feedback: (10)

This is how I set ailerons up.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

The picture Randy shows, gives the proper differential for a High wing with the servo mounted on the bottom of the wing.

A low wing plane would have the linkages on the other side of the wheel.

Jim Wolfe

This is how I install my aileron servo on any wing I can, that doesn't come with a square cutout already in the wing?? Not large hole to weaken it, dowls replace the foam and balsa you removed for them.
Jim W

garys

Here's a picture from flyfastcomposites.com of Jim Allen's aileron setup on a NemeQ+. Mine are done the same way. It ends up giving just a slight amount of differential.

http://flyfastcomposites.com/PDRM1211.JPG

Clark L

That setup Gary just posted is how I do all mine too. Simple, works great...

TIA

Perfect!

Thanks Gary that's pretty much how mine is done now.

brennan l

its nice to have two just in case one of your servos decide to give out. just kind of inshurance

rcrq500

I do mine the same way Gary does it. I have done it for 20+ years and never had any problems