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Inverted Quadra 35

Old 10-27-2007, 08:16 AM
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redball8
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Default Inverted Quadra 35

I picked up a plane at a swap meet a little while ago (8' Antoinette) that has an inverted Quadra 35 for power, no spring starter, and a Bennett muffler. I checked the point, magneto & plug gaps, set the carb screws to 1 turn hi and 1-1/2 turns lo, and mounted an 18x8 TopFlite prop.

I choked it til fuel is in the carb, flipped it a couple times, switched the coil on, set the throttle at ~1/4, then flipped it over so the magnets had plenty of zip past the coil. Try as I may though, I don't even get a pop. Pulled the plug to check for a spark, and it's pretty strong. Guys in our club suggested I check the timing, but near as I can figure the timing isn't adjustable - the coil just doesn't have much of anywhere to go.

Tried getting it really wet with fuel until I could see vapors coming out the muffler, but I think this fouls the plug. Have had so much fuel in there that upon inspection, raw fuel did bridge the plug electrodes. After about three such sessions, I've pulled the engine from the plane and put it on a test stand, cylinder up. Did see that the internals are really clean, not a speck of carbon on the piston.

What am I doing wrong? My thought is with spark I should at least get a pop off the prime. So far I've resisted tearing the engine down. Do people run Quadras inverted without issue?
Old 10-27-2007, 07:24 PM
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w8ye
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

To connect the skinny coil wire to ground will short the coil out and there will be no spark

They have to go through the compression stroke mighty fast to start.

Its best to use a big starter made for a model airplane. Electric drill do not generally spin fast enough and if you have one that does, when the engine tries to run the drill holds the engine back from running
Old 10-27-2007, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

Thanks, w8ye. I replaced the wire from the points to the coil, and she ran for a few minutes! And pretty well at that, so at least the default carb settings are workable. It was difficult to restart, so now I've replaced the connector on the coil ground as well. It had a bit of corrosion that seemed to clean up ok, but might have caused intermittent contact. Will try again tomorrow, two steps forward ...

RB8
Old 10-27-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

I'm running two Quadra 35's inverted. Have to be careful not to flood them on prime. Both of mine have spring starters. Usual process is to flip until I see fuel flow through the line into the carb then turn on the kill switch and use the spring starter.
Old 11-06-2007, 01:20 AM
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KI8FR
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

I have a bote load of then and all of them are inverted. I only have one that is still on mag. I run Ch ignition on some and I run gas/glow on some. Most of mine will start on the 3ed or 4th flip. The one with the mag I have to run a spring starter on it. I have not set that one to CH or gas/glow just cuz I need the exter oz in the nose of the plane. I love my us and quadra engines. You can get them cheep and you can get alot of power out of them. Just need to put a little work in them.

I have a quadra 40 2 ring that will spin a 20x10 prop the same as my 3w-42 that the book said has 4 hp. but you know how books are

You have a good engine. just have to lern what to do with it.
Paul
Old 11-06-2007, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

Thanks for the tip, GB. I managed to get it started twice so far, once upright & once inverted, and when it runs it runs well. That tells me the carb is set up ok. Spark is pretty strong now, what with all the work cleaning up the wiring, gapping the plug to 0.025" or a little less, etc. I'm thinking now it's too cold to get it started, even with a can of ether (60F for a high temp if we're lucky, more like 50F). It'll pop when I flip it, but just won't start. Also thinking of investing in a spring starter - do they make much of a difference? Could be the summer gas (low Reid vapor pressure) and 20:1 oil mix, too. Something tells me it's a project for the Spring season ...
Old 11-06-2007, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

Spring starter is definitely worth the investment if you're going to leave the mag ignition in place. If you convert to electronic ignition it's not needed. I've also seen 'em started with a rope (like an old fashioned lawn mower).
Old 11-07-2007, 12:45 AM
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KI8FR
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

20:1 is to much oil. you can run that engine at 32:1 or 40:1 even 50:1 I run mine at 40:1 but if you are running 20:1 you will never get it to start.
Paul
Old 11-07-2007, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

Personally, I would forego the weight of the spring starter, and any safety related concerns regarding some other methods...and go with one of CH-Ignitions 'Jump Start' setups....which I'm sure CH can 'fit' to any mag engine.

JUMP START SYSTEMS
Complete, includes battery box and switch. Requires 4 AA alkaline batteries
(not included). Your engine must have a working
magneto and will run on the magneto after it is started. Easy hand starts with no kick back!
102. Jump start for Zenoah G-45, 62 and GT-74 .................................................. ...... $59.95

...save the weight of the spring starter, enjoy the starting characteristics of EI, without having to convert the engine, and you get to retain the durable and dependable mag ignition without having to worry about charging an ignition battery. If you aren't interested in fully converting to EI....this is the way to go.

Chad
Old 11-07-2007, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

Thanks, fellas, now we're getting somewhere!

I wondered about the high oil content - I ran across an old Q-35 manual that recommended the 20:1. I'll thin it out to 40:1, that way the fuel I use for my Quadra, chain saw & weed whacker will all be at the same oil content.

I'll also look into the CH ignition - how exactly does it help with hand starting? Hotter spark?

Should the engine start in colder weather? Say down to 50F?

-RB8
Old 11-08-2007, 01:57 AM
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KI8FR
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

The CH changes the timming so it will hand flip just fine. No prob. I have got my engine to start in the teens before. but just do not like flying in that cold. but I do fly in the 30 and up.
Old 11-08-2007, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

....yeah, the planes, engine and equipment do a lot better in the cold than my fingers do! I have yet to master feeling comfortable pinching the sticks with any type of fingered glove on. However, no matter the weather, we all get together on January first to bring in the new year flying, eating chili...etc. Frostbite is just a reminder of the fun we had right?

Redball8, let us know what direction you end up going...and keep us posted on your progress!

Chad
Old 11-08-2007, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

I'm going to thin out the fuel this weekend and if time permits give starting it up another go. But I like the looks of the jump-start - I'll give them a call this afternoon.
Old 02-15-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Inverted Quadra 35

when i crank my q35 in the cold i put my thumb over the power ram stack to act as a choke to start it.then let it warm before raising the throttle or it will die

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