Heavy duty servo extensions
08-28-2013, 01:59 PM
#26
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Well don't I feel like a real dope. Guess I'm too tired to be on here. Oh well. I make my own extensions with heavier wire as needed for the length of run.
08-28-2013, 05:09 PM
#27
Bob
Last edited by sensei; 08-28-2013 at 05:42 PM.
08-29-2013, 02:05 AM
#29
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For me it was any thing using a larger then 60oz servo. Bigger wire supports a higher current load. Plus the cost of the HD extensions and bulk wire isn't that much more.
08-29-2013, 02:14 AM
#30
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For me it was any thing using a larger then 60oz servo. Bigger wire supports a higher current load. Plus the cost of the HD extensions and bulk wire isn't that much more.
08-29-2013, 03:01 AM
#31
I also makeup my servo wires with the heavier 20 gauge and in some cases 18 gauge shielded wires and a gold connector at the ends, I solder my wires direct to the servos to remove any added critical points of failure in the control system, all my servos are positioned in the airframe and the wires are run continuously direct from the servo to the receiver with no added extensions in line. The rudder servo wires in something like my 55 % 260 are 11' long feeding very power hungry servos with no heating or line drop issues. So I guess it is all in what works for you.
Bob
Bob
08-29-2013, 06:12 AM
#32
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The voltage drop per 100 feet of wire @1 amp for 20 gauge wire is 2.02. The drop per 100 feet for 22 gauge is 3.20. A 1 foot extension for 20 gauge will lose .020 volts @ 1amp, while the 22 gauge will lose .032. Inconsequential.
08-29-2013, 06:52 AM
#33
Banned
"you can bend 6061-T6 fairly easy, "
I will have to admit that I have bent T-6; very carefully, and I would not consider it "easy", and the potential for degradation in the bend area is enormous.
Les
I will have to admit that I have bent T-6; very carefully, and I would not consider it "easy", and the potential for degradation in the bend area is enormous.
Les
08-29-2013, 08:29 AM
#34
6061-T6 is soft compared to 2024-T3 or 7075-T6, and so you know, one of the divisions I am in charge of includes break press bending and joggling upwards of 7000 6061 condition T-6 parts a month in support of the aerospace industry. Did you know that most all the landing gears that are bent metal on our toy airplanes are 6061-T6, Even the landing gear I designed manufactured and placed on my 70% Staudacher back in 1999 was bent from .500" thick 6061-T6. The simple fact is 6061-T6 is the engineered choice for most break press bending operations in aerospace. I think maybe you should do some research and get your facts in order before posting.
Bob
Last edited by sensei; 08-29-2013 at 12:12 PM.
08-29-2013, 09:39 AM
#35
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I also makeup my servo wires with the heavier 20 gauge and in some cases 18 gauge shielded wires and a gold connector at the ends, I solder my wires direct to the servos to remove any added critical points of failure in the control system, all my servos are positioned in the airframe and the wires are run continuously direct from the servo to the receiver with no added extensions in line. The rudder servo wires in something like my 55 % 260 are 11' long feeding very power hungry servos with no heating or line drop issues. So I guess it is all in what works for you.
Bob
Bob
I thought about splicing a couple inches from the servo to get some extra length...but not re-doing the solder joint inside the servo.
Anybody else doing what Bob is doing? What about potential servo warranty issues, anything to worry about there?
Tom
08-29-2013, 10:13 AM
#37
Tom all of my airplanes that when an extension is required, I will simply take the servo, even brand new ones and cut the plug lead in half. Then I will solder in the perfect length of new servo wire that is of a heavier gauge tthan the stock servos wire. I never buy standard extension wires.
This eliminates unnecessary extra plugs and excessive extra wire length. This is been my sop for many years. Do not think I have ever returned a Hitec servo for warrenty but having the best customer service in the business I do not believe this would be any kind of warrenty problem.
John
This eliminates unnecessary extra plugs and excessive extra wire length. This is been my sop for many years. Do not think I have ever returned a Hitec servo for warrenty but having the best customer service in the business I do not believe this would be any kind of warrenty problem.
John
08-29-2013, 10:24 AM
#38
soldering 2" or so away from the servo would be a great way to go as well, just make sure you have no cold solder joints and they are isolated from each other well, servos are not something you want an intermittent with while your flying, if you know what I mean...
Bob
Bob
Last edited by sensei; 08-29-2013 at 12:10 PM.
08-29-2013, 11:55 AM
#39
HD?
why?
do this test :
using a battery an a taillight bulb which will pull 3-4 amps- add your extension into this setup
Which gets warm first?
the connectors or the wires
None of the present wire ends are rated for constant duty at over 3-4 amps
Sorry Les ,your setup pictured ,pulled relatively meager amounts of power - but then - it was enough at the time. Those servos were 40 in ounce as I recall.
why?
do this test :
using a battery an a taillight bulb which will pull 3-4 amps- add your extension into this setup
Which gets warm first?
the connectors or the wires
None of the present wire ends are rated for constant duty at over 3-4 amps
Sorry Les ,your setup pictured ,pulled relatively meager amounts of power - but then - it was enough at the time. Those servos were 40 in ounce as I recall.
08-29-2013, 01:06 PM
#40
Banned
",pulled relatively meager amounts of power"
More than enough to do the job.
"but then - it was enough at the time."
And today, for me, and the kind of flying that I do. And the Futaba 148's claim all of 42 ounces:-))))))))))))))
Les
More than enough to do the job.
"but then - it was enough at the time."
And today, for me, and the kind of flying that I do. And the Futaba 148's claim all of 42 ounces:-))))))))))))))
Les
08-29-2013, 06:58 PM
#42
My Feedback: (84)
Personally, I use #22 on everything from 35%/100cc and under. Never had an issue. On the larger stuff, I use #20 with gold connectors. A 40% airplane flying 3D moves can easily see 40amp loads (according to guys doing this much longer than I) and I just "feel" better with #20 extensions making those 60" & 70" runs to the tail or wings.
Also, I use Fromeco Wolverine & Badger switches on the big stuff. I have 3 Miracle switches in use on gassers ranging from 30cc to 100cc. Some guys hate 'em, some love em. I have had zero failures to date. Hope I didn't jinx myself! LOL!
Also, I use Fromeco Wolverine & Badger switches on the big stuff. I have 3 Miracle switches in use on gassers ranging from 30cc to 100cc. Some guys hate 'em, some love em. I have had zero failures to date. Hope I didn't jinx myself! LOL!
08-29-2013, 07:41 PM
#43
Banned
" The simple fact is 6061-T6 is the engineered choice for most break press bending operations in aerospace. I think maybe you should do some research and get your facts in order before posting."
Since we are NOT in aerospace, but in our garages, without the niceties of a break bending press; my statement still stands. You might want to consider the venue, before posting.
Les
Les
Since we are NOT in aerospace, but in our garages, without the niceties of a break bending press; my statement still stands. You might want to consider the venue, before posting.
Les
Les
08-30-2013, 03:28 AM
#45
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So it is a compromise between two current bottlenecks then...
On one hand is the limitation of the connector. On the other is the resistance created in a soldered splice which basically converts stranded wire to solid core wire for the length of the splice.
Has anyone measured the voltage and resistance changes when comparing our servo connectors to a soldered splice (all else remaining equal)?
Minus the electrics, the voltage and amp levels in say the 50cc stuff aren't that large to begin with so small changes could become relevent...no?
Tom
On one hand is the limitation of the connector. On the other is the resistance created in a soldered splice which basically converts stranded wire to solid core wire for the length of the splice.
Has anyone measured the voltage and resistance changes when comparing our servo connectors to a soldered splice (all else remaining equal)?
Minus the electrics, the voltage and amp levels in say the 50cc stuff aren't that large to begin with so small changes could become relevent...no?
Tom
08-30-2013, 04:16 AM
#46
Good morning Les,
You don't need a break press to properly bend 6061-T6 in your garage, but you do need a few basic tools and a basic understanding of minimum bend radii per material thickness, material grain direction and very important, all edges must be polished prior to the bending operation of your material, nicks and scratches on the material edge during a bend operation will create stress risers and will in fact crack your material as you bend it, especially if your bending 2024-T3 old boy. Now your statement: (the potential for degradation in the bend area is enormous) only applies if you do not know what your doing in the first place and I believe we have established a baseline for that truth already...
The degradation you speak of in aluminum alloys is generally caused by a continuous bending moment, (back and forth) while work hardening the material with each wave until the material itself finally goes completely catastrophic. So you see the servo arms I purchased and posted pictures of were advertized by Horizon Hobby's/Hanger 9 to have been manufactured from 6061-T6 not condition 0 as you jumped in and stated, had they been condition 0 in my airplane, it would have made a smoking hole pretty fast. The fact is they were not up to the job, Fact is, plastic arms would have stripped or broke under full 3D deflection load of surfaces as large as they are in my application associated with airspeed of 118+ mph on the gun flat and level heading into some of those 3D maneuvers. I see you have gone back and edited your post with this, With respect to your hardware, if it was me, I would find another supplier. Those things should be T6 condition, and not soft enough to bend. They appear to by 0 condition. As I stated already, you do not get your facts in order before posting, I had already stated before your post that I switched my arms to SWBs and the problem went away... So back to the program, I also have not used any wires in my airplanes smaller that 20 Gauge in the last nearly 10 years, but then again I don't think I have purchased any flight control servos with less than 320 ozs. of torque in that length of time either.
Here is a flight video of the 150" wingspan airplane I designed, built and test flew for Aerotech R/C , it is also the airplane I bent the servo arms on. it is equipped with 600+ ozs. servos, and 11' 20 gauge wires on the rudder/elevators and the wings, well as I said it is a 150" span. If you watch the entire video you will see at times there are some very high current load maneuvers with no issues.
http://vimeo.com/22211697
Bob
You don't need a break press to properly bend 6061-T6 in your garage, but you do need a few basic tools and a basic understanding of minimum bend radii per material thickness, material grain direction and very important, all edges must be polished prior to the bending operation of your material, nicks and scratches on the material edge during a bend operation will create stress risers and will in fact crack your material as you bend it, especially if your bending 2024-T3 old boy. Now your statement: (the potential for degradation in the bend area is enormous) only applies if you do not know what your doing in the first place and I believe we have established a baseline for that truth already...
The degradation you speak of in aluminum alloys is generally caused by a continuous bending moment, (back and forth) while work hardening the material with each wave until the material itself finally goes completely catastrophic. So you see the servo arms I purchased and posted pictures of were advertized by Horizon Hobby's/Hanger 9 to have been manufactured from 6061-T6 not condition 0 as you jumped in and stated, had they been condition 0 in my airplane, it would have made a smoking hole pretty fast. The fact is they were not up to the job, Fact is, plastic arms would have stripped or broke under full 3D deflection load of surfaces as large as they are in my application associated with airspeed of 118+ mph on the gun flat and level heading into some of those 3D maneuvers. I see you have gone back and edited your post with this, With respect to your hardware, if it was me, I would find another supplier. Those things should be T6 condition, and not soft enough to bend. They appear to by 0 condition. As I stated already, you do not get your facts in order before posting, I had already stated before your post that I switched my arms to SWBs and the problem went away... So back to the program, I also have not used any wires in my airplanes smaller that 20 Gauge in the last nearly 10 years, but then again I don't think I have purchased any flight control servos with less than 320 ozs. of torque in that length of time either.
Here is a flight video of the 150" wingspan airplane I designed, built and test flew for Aerotech R/C , it is also the airplane I bent the servo arms on. it is equipped with 600+ ozs. servos, and 11' 20 gauge wires on the rudder/elevators and the wings, well as I said it is a 150" span. If you watch the entire video you will see at times there are some very high current load maneuvers with no issues.
http://vimeo.com/22211697
Bob
Last edited by sensei; 08-30-2013 at 05:07 AM.
08-30-2013, 05:26 AM
#47
Press Brakes are nice but for our uses - a little background in min bending radius for various aluminum is all that's needed
Thisinfo is readily available
6061T6 is garden variety material-
strong, easy to bend and commonly available
Most model landing gear is made from it
and is in my book - not very good
For my BIG competition models (40+%) , I used 2024 T3 light and excellent recovery -unlike the 6061T6.
for super light FAI- 7075
The bending radius is critical on both but not impossible to do -even free hand,.using clamps
Thisinfo is readily available
6061T6 is garden variety material-
strong, easy to bend and commonly available
Most model landing gear is made from it
and is in my book - not very good
For my BIG competition models (40+%) , I used 2024 T3 light and excellent recovery -unlike the 6061T6.
for super light FAI- 7075
The bending radius is critical on both but not impossible to do -even free hand,.using clamps
08-30-2013, 06:33 AM
#49
Banned
"The degradation you speak of in aluminum alloys is generally caused by a continuous bending moment, (back and forth)"
No. The degradation that I speak of is the fact, that with too small an inside radius of bend, the outer "skin" is stretched beyond the elastic limit of the material, and it fractures.
Les
No. The degradation that I speak of is the fact, that with too small an inside radius of bend, the outer "skin" is stretched beyond the elastic limit of the material, and it fractures.
Les