Skyflyer

My Feedback: (122)

This might not be the forum to ask such questions, so if it's not, I apologize. From time to time, both club and non-club members ask me if I would build a plane for them. I have always declined. The are a few reasons but mostly, it is because I have no notion of how to charge or, how much to charge. When building for myself, whether the plane starts out as a kit, an ARF or from scratch, I build carefully, well...and slowly.

I would think that if I were building a plane for someone else, I should put the same care and quality into it as if I were making it for myself. I guess this would take longer than a "slam-bam-thank-you ma'am" production, but not many people would want to pay for longer hours. Another thing is, I haven't been able to approximate how long a particular plane should take to complete. Do any "professional" builders build on a "time plus materials" basis?

If there's anybody out there who would care to share their thoughts with the rest of us on any of the above aspects, we would all appreciate it. I certainly would! Thanks. Jerry

CAPtain232

My Feedback: (40)

Let me for warn you......I have been doing this for a while myself. YOU NEVER GET TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOURSELF once people know you are doing it. You will stay busy and won't make any money at it.....I am like you, I work for perfection so it is time consuming......If you build a kit, the typical going rate is the cost of the kit. At that price, you will be working for about $2.63 an hour.......It works out to be good money if you are retired or unemployed, but if you work 40 hrs a week and your time means something to you it just isn't worth the hastle. I don't know how many times I have had people consume lots of my time wanting this or that and then when it comes down to it, they do not want to pay for the extra stuff. If you do it, let me suggest that you demand that the customers have EVERYTHING, not just everything, but EVERYTHING needed to do the job BEFORE you will even start on it......I have had people tell me "Go ahead and start on it and I will get you the parts ASAP.....A week or 2 later and you are waiting on parts with your bench occupied and unable to start another project.........IT's A PAIN IN THE BUTT.....There are good people to do this work for, but they are the needle in the haystack.

spokman

My Feedback: (2)

I would high ball your prices. Only cater to those that have the money to pay you properly for your work. Charge a lot and do a great job. You make money and a person gets a great plane. Don't try and compete with ARF's. Charge a lot more! This will weed out people looking for a bargain and bring in those that are looking for good work. Just my ideas.. I'm not business savvy so use caution when paying attention to this!

TomCrump

Take a look at what people are charging. $1500.00 is not uncommon for a large bird. This does not include the kit, engine and radio gear.

Not long ago, a friend was asked to build a scale model. It was to be all decked out with all the scale goodies. The customer thought the price of the kit would cover building costs. He quickly backed away when he was given the $3000.00 labor cost.

People don't understand what goes into building a model of high quality.

Besides, if you did it for money, then it would be WORK!!!

fritch1969

spokman is 100% correct

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

Oh yeah......what they said... I totally agree. It's hard to find time if you get busy on someone else's plane. I did it for quite a while myself, and it became a job, albeit somewhat fun sometimes, the nicest thing was I was home though.
I dont know what kind of person you are, or what your motivations would be to do that. If it's to be nice, and give someone a nice plane... then you won't make any money.. if it's to generate extra income to support your own hobby, then yes.. high-ball the price, and then you have something to show for yourself.
I was very successful in building up my fleet by doing this.. most of them that I built for others were ARF's though(with some repair work now and then), and even then when it would come to an extensive ARF kit, with bells and whistles it gets time consuming, and then motivation becomes a factor for me, after about 3yrs of constant building for others, I acquired quite a collection of stuff, and found I had NO time to enjoy it.
I would NEVER build a kit(builder's kit) for someone else either... even with the fact that I LOVE to build..and have been into RC and building for almost 30yrs.. I do know that would not be worth it to do that much labor for someone(maybe excluding family)and it really wouldn't seem fair to me nor them. The kits to me are the special planes, very unique to me, as nobody has one identical, and thats how I like it.
Dont know how you are though, and I can't say I won't do it again, I know I probably will in a while, just wouldn't do kits ever, and at this point I have no planes that belong to anyone else in my shop, and I LIKE IT like that, ALOT!! It took months to get the last one out literally(it was a custom plane, that I didnt really want to do to start with).. good luck though with whatever you choose.
I did price mine by the cost of the kit involved though... IE, if it was say a WorldModels P51 that goes for about $189, I'd charge that to build it, as it seems there is something to using the manufacturers like that as a guide. They price the kits accordingly to what the market bears I'm sure. If it's a $250 ARF, then I'd charge $250 to build..etc.. . Don't think that's high either.....dont think it for a second... that alway seemed fair to me, and people that want it pay it. I would include a test flight, guarantee to fly, and test it myself...always get paid first though....the reason for the fee is... if something goes wrong on test flight.... your covered, and only out your time, and can replace the kit without any out of pocket except your fee. If something did happen that was your fault, you are covered. I never had any problems though. You do have to be very good though, and a near perfectionist, as it sounds like youve got what it takes if your being asked to build.
This little system seemed to work well for me, after a few dozen kits I feel like I always came out with what I thought was decent money, and I knew my clients got a good Aircraft, with many return people. I still get calls all the time. Funny thing is...I'm a printer, and I did some Biz cards a little while back, with a pic of my plane, and my info, etc.... wow....you want biz... just make some cards up and hand a few out.. I had a ton of work for a loooong time. Dont get me wrong, I didnt mind, and it was good, it just got a bit old is all.
Just remember if someone has the money to buy that plane they CAN'T build.. they've got the money to take care of the builder, and most of the time, if youve got what they want(the talent and skill to build) they will pay for it. And they will try to jew you down too, when they hear your prices.. just let them deal with it, and if someone else does it cheaper.... then they got a good deal(or did they?). Regardles you go on and enjoy your hobby no matter what they do.
There are very nice guys that are very nice to have as clients, and as clients they dont have the time to do any building but love to go fly them..and they do have the money to back it, and take care of you well, then there's the ones that just dont get it, and want all the fancy shmancy crap.....Just dont let those guys tell you about the fancy doo-dads they bought for they're plane, and $89 dollar servos if they owe you money. I've experienced that too. They forget about the dude that has the know-how to get thier plane how they want it, but don't let them do that to you. Just remember that, and be nice about it all, and you should do fine with whatever you choose. Good luck.

Al Stein

Yep, been there and done that and can testify... all you read above is good advice.

I used to build a lot of planes for people. Not too long ago I got silly and agreed to do a frame-up for somebody. No problem... finished it off pretty quickly and was ready to have it out of the way of several personal projects that... well, that it was in the way of. Then the guy sees his baby, falls in love with the wood, and wants me to cover it. Now, I actually like to cover -- sort of -- but I take a lot of time to get around to it. The bench area has to be cleaned and all the dust removed from the workshop and nothing else can be built until the covering is finished and then I;m not building so I'm feeling out-of-sorts and I work slower... it's not something I just jump into. So I say no. So he asks how much. I say no. He makes an offer. I say no. He asks how much. (Here comes the big mistake...) I high ball. He gets out his wallet. I'm stuck.

Being a good builder involves getting payed to do what you really enjoy. It invloves having a not-entirely-inexpensive hobby more than pay for itself. It involves having people know your name and speak it with awe in their voice. But it also involves having other people's projects take priority way higher than your recreation, and sometimes it involves finishing the part you love to do quickly and laboring forever at the pain of doing the part you don't like.

My main advice is to do this: [ul][*] think hard about what you don't like to do[*] decide whether it's worth putting what you don't like ahead of what you do like[*] decide if what you do like to do can be sold separately from what you don't like[*] decide how much you'd want to get for doing that part you don't like[*] always ask at least twice that much for the don't-like part of the job[/ul] About how much... look at ARF prices (that's the mass-produced version of what you're thinking of producing, right?) and add a significant amount because you're producing a one-off, customized version of the lane. Can you get that much? If they know your good work, yes, they'll happily pay it. If they won't pay it, you'll be working for nearly nothing and probably shouldn't take the job.

Either way, best wishes!

CafeenMan

I charge what it's worth to me to do it. The customer can take it or leave it, but my work is second to none and I'm not giving it away. If you're a high school student or bored out of your mind and need something to do, then maybe the price of the kit is worth it, but not to me. I charge $250/week. What that means is that I'm going to charge $250 for a simple kit like a any GP POS sport kit. My price is based on how long I think it should take me regardless of how long it actually takes. For example, I may tell the customer it's going to take 6 weeks to complete just so I have some leeway, but I know I can get it done in 4. I don't charge 6 weeks, I charge 4.

For a scale kit, I charge anywhere from $1,500 up plus crating, shipping and incidental expenses (hardware for the plane, for example).

The most I've charged and been paid is $8,000. I used to build for chump change, but it only took a couple times of doing that to realize I'd rather be building my own planes, then resenting that I was giving my work away.

As you can imagine, I don't get a lot of work, but my customers get their money's worth and they always love the plane I send them.

The problem good custom builders have is losing customers because so many poor builders call themselves custom builders and their work, frankly, sucks. That hurts all of us who can build because the customer wonders why they paid so much for a POS airplane when they could have gotten a better quality ARF for the same price or less.

Jim Thomerson

I know a nationally competitive CL scale flier who keeps a meticulous logbook of his designing and building activities. He knows how long it took him to bend a piece of landing gear wire! I'd suggest you do the same for your next couple of personal airplanes. That way you will have some real information on how long things take you to do and can make a better informed estimate on a job. You would be doing a skilled job and should charge a reasonable per hour fee for your work. Again that depends on what suits you. You will undoubtedly underestimate the first couple you do. You have had some good advice from experienced people here.

Jim

Skyflyer

My Feedback: (122)

You are right...there has been a wealth of good advice given above. Thanks to each and every one of you for taking the time and effort to putting your very well thought out words forth for all to share. Jerry S.

pete913

I build models for my own pleasure, not for profit. If I were to do that, this would get to be a job, not a hobby. At least that's the way I look at it. If I had to make a guess what my free time is worth to build a plane for somebody else, the only thing I could come up with is around $15 an hour for however many hours it took, and thats just my wages. That'd be way too cheap to run a business on. After all, the building, land under it, tooling etc, lights and heat just didnt' magically appear, and has to be reflected in the cost of my services, just like any other business. My guess is in the neighborhood of $35 to $40 an hour minimum, and I'd say that's a bare minimum. Another thing, I would absolutely refuse to give estimates on time, either building or delivery time, on anything I hadn't built at least once. I think this would weed out the bargain hunters and folks I really didn't want to work for. I have a job, don't really need or want to turn my hobby into one, and if that should happen, I'm sure not about to work for myself for less money than I make working for someone else now.

Mike Ledbetter

An older guy at our field does this, as his eyes are too bad for him to fly anymore, but he can still do close work. He charges an arm and a leg, but a frame-up or complete build by him is arrow-straight, done solely with Tite-bond glue and is truly a thing of beauty and a lasting treasure. He has decades of modeling experience.

Good luck and regards.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If you are as good a builder as those who wish you to build for them believe you to be, you should recognize that quality builders are now almost a thing of the past and should be cherished. Paying them well for a job well done is one way to do that.

Don't give your work away. You will end up hating every second of the "for hire" building time if you do. Give a take it or leave it price and stand by it.

jessiej

I have never built models for others. However I was once an accomplished amateur photographer and truly loved photography. Then I did it professionally for a while and have never gotten the same pleasure since.

On the other hand I have raced motorcycles as an amateur and as a professional and enjoyed both. That probabaly had a lot to do with my relationship with my sponsor.

jess

SDR-Hammer

As a licensed builder myself specializing in remodeling it is far more profitable to work on a “unit cost” rather than a per hour fee. Sometimes you loose when the project takes longer than expected but frequently projects come along that can make you feel guilty because it was so easy. Some people have a hard time with $50 an hour. However those same people have no issues when I present a bid for $275 (labor) on a project that is estimated to take 4 hours.

Then you will want to have a prior agreement with the client on contingencies when extra work is necessary, such as replacing broken pieces in the kit, etc.

However you decide to charge remember only a portion of that money actually goes into your pocket. You need to cover incidental cost such as lighting your shop, sand paper, wear and tear on your tools and aspirin, for the headaches some clients will give you.