Mode One

I just don't get it! Leaving "Park Fliers" out of this discussion, why are electric airplanes, helicopters and power systems getting so much attention in the R/C press? I understand the technology is new and growing by leaps and bounds as we speak. I also understand that electric power exceeds glow or gas in power to weight ratio and it is clean and cheap to use, once the initial investment is paid for. However, it's also my understanding the systems are considerably more expensive. After having read what I have about it, and talked to the few other fliers I've met who are involved, it's costs seem so much higher that there does not appear to be a break even point in the life of a typical electric set-up, as compared to glow or gas set-ups. Also, charging takes so long that a person will not get near the amount of flights in a day that a glow or gas guy can.

So, what's the deal here? Are my facts so wrong that I am not understanding the attraction? Or, are my facts correct and it is just electrics are so fascinating as a new technology that we are willing to overlook it's considerably higher price.

If you are an electric guy, don't get your "knickers in a bunch", explain to me why I'm missing the point here. If you have similar opinions, please voice them!

I think my club is probably typical: of the ten to 15 guys who are hard core fliers, maybe 3-5 are only just dabbling with electric "Park Fliers" and for the most part fly glow or gas far more regularly. Which then begs the question; Are electric guys loners, flying without AMA and club affiliation? (Maybe this is a whole other topic).

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Your right about the initial expense.

I talked to a guy about a little 30" built up Katana. Electric power. Enough power that it would hover at 1/2 throttle and pull out really good.

So, we're talking about a little bitty plane here that weighs less than 2 pounds RTF.

When I asked the guy how much it cost for the power system--he turned into a mush mouth. I had to literally PRY the info out of him. He seamed willing to talk about it and was excited that I was interested. Told me all about watts and amps and this battery and that battery. But when it got down to the actual cost--he wasn't as forthcoming with the info.

1/2 hour later, I finally got it out of him that it was a $500 power system. Thats NOT the plane and servos. Thats just his battery, speed controller, motor, charger, and watt meter.

Take off the price of the watt meter and the charger--still cost him $325 for the power system on that plane.

Ain't no way I'm gonna spend $325 for electric power on a little 30" plane that weighs 2 pounds. Thats insane.

For the $500 this guy spent on this 30" plane--I could have bought a Giant Scale ARF and maybe had some money left over for hardware.

Or, I could have bought a cheaper Giant Scale ARF and had $200 left to put towards the engine.

Or, I could have bought a big gasser engine. You can pick up gassers all day long for under $500.

Thats what I think too. There's always going to be those kinds of people who want to try the newest technology. Doesn't matter that it's STUPID expensive. They want to try it.

Thats fine with me. More guys fly electrics--and the technology will get better. When the technology gets better, it'll get cheaper.

I may get an electric eventually, but not untill it costs about $75 or less to power that 30" Katana that weighs 2 pounds.

redfox435cat

I've yet to see an electric system that truly out performs glow in the 40-60 size/weight class. I've seen them as good but outperforming would be in my opinion a point of view. I regularly get out my pylon racers and continually run circles around all the high powered electric guys. Now if you want to compare it by getting out a high powered electric and fly against a guy with a OSfx or some mild performance glow engine the electric will fly circles around it every time



The true comparison is your preference and the price.
cost
take my Sea fury
Saito 100 engine 299
servo 12
25 other hardware nuts and bolts rod connections, tank and whatnot
4 gallons of 15% 60
408 + tax
this isn't a fully vertical set up right in the middle of the range

to power the same plane in electric

480 brushless system motor controller and gear reduction drive 420 bucks
3 lipos 3 cell high draw 450
decent lipo charger 120
990 = tax
the saito is still going to outperform it in the air
a 600 system would probably do a little better in this case but add more dough

you can get it cheaper i know but not that much cheaper. just doesn't add up

the reason it is getting so much press its new. This is the first time were electrics can almost compete with gas in the power to weight ratio, electric is still a tad heavier, you can state opinions on this all day, scales don't lie. Nicds and NiMh are very heavy batterys. brushed motor just doesn't quite have the power and efficiency required by the heavier models. Now
with lipos and brushless motors the power is their, the weight is almost there, the reliability is still lacking though and they just cost too much

Electric at this point cost more because of the emerging technology. Any new computer system is very expensive and the price drop as it ages and newer technology's come out, Hench brushed systems are a dime a dozen right now. Also high current drawing devises have never been cheap. Taking a devise that weight a few ounces with the ability to draw 60+ amps through it is just not a cheap endeavor on top of that generating an AC waveform for the three phase brushless motor. Li-poly though have been around for 2 decades, was developed by the missile industry which dropped the technology due to its volatile nature have come back. The most recent article in MA shows the complexity of these battery's. I'm still waiting for a truly reliable power source to go any further into electric, im my experience 4-8 lipos have ruptured the 4 that remain my smaller 2100mAh packs I use only as receiver packs since they do well for low current draw situations. My zagi I'm just sticking with 8-cell src nicds since you can draw all the power through them you want with very little effect on the life of the cell. The lipos can take high current but the battery's just don't last long when used in high draw applications with the exception of the 180+ dollar packs even then if it fails it a good chance your not getting it replaced on warranty. Also this is as much as a good glow engine and you still need the motor and controller. Thats a lot of freak-in money to just go up in smoke on top of that for a plane that will never be as impressive as my larger warbirds or as powerful as my pylon racers. until then The only electric I keep around is a zagi simply because I can take it anywere and has become fairly reliable.
To the guys that are deeply into the electric. I mean no offense. this my experience. I've dropped allot of money into it and didn't like the results. I'll try it again a few years when the technology's progresses a little more and the reliability increases. until this fly what ya got as long as they fly

LesUyeda

To set the scene "now back in my day": I have been flying fueled airplanes since the late 50's/early 60's. I took a 10 year hiatus while me and my sons went off into motorcycles, then back into airplanes and 4 stroke engines, with particular interest in the twins.

Several years ago, maybe as many as 5, I went to the local electric field, just to pass the time. There was a fellow flying a small Spitfire. The flight characteristics were admirable, and the duration was 10 minutes and better. My flying timer was always set to 10 minutes, so that duration suited me just fine. I decided to try it.

I went from the park flyer, to a kit bashed Goldberg Chipmunk, to a scratch built Jungmeister to an Great Planes RV-4, to a scratch built Pietenpol. Each increase in size, required larger motors and batteries, but I am using some of the same motors I bought years ago. A motor to power the RV-4 cost me $150. No where near what my OS 160 twin cost. I also find that I can do a lot more toward scale detail, at less weight, not having to worry about the pounding of an engine.

My point being, the initial cost is high, but I cannot argue the simplicity of electric flight, and it is possible to get the same kind of performance, and flight duration as fuel. I take two airplanes, and 3 bettery pack each; at 10 minutes each, that gives me a solid hour of flying time. That is more that I usually did with fuel.

I will admit that I still miss the smell and sound of a 4 stroke, but the fuel field is 20 miles away, and the electric only 5.

Les

Mode One

Les, Do you feel a comparson between a $150 dollar electric motor to a O.S. 160 twin, a fair comparison. You said you need three battery packs, and I know you also need an ESC and charger capible of charging multiple packs. What are the costs of these items?

Mark DeSchane, AMS 59157

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Plastic Christmas Tree ornaments are cheaper and more durable than glass ornaments, but I prefer Glass.

Cubic zirconium is cheaper than a diamond, and looks just as good, but I prefer diamonds.

A Gas Grill is faster, easier and cleaner than using charcoal, but I prefer charcoal.

And while I am amazed and awed at the electric motor and battery technology that has come about in recent years, I'm sorry, but I just gotta have the sights, sounds and smell of a real engine.

LesUyeda

Mode One: Yes, and No. The 160 will wear out; probably still run, but, my 120 twin did, and I had to put a collection system on the crankcase breather it was leaking so much oil. The only thing that will go wrong with the motor, is that you will have to replace the bearings; there is nothing else to go. I have 3 battery packs, at $60 ea, that have to be replaced every few years. The esc was about $125, the charger was $99 on sale. The rest of everything is the same as I was flying with fuel, and I get about the same performance that I got out of my OS 70's. I am not one to put a .120 in a 60 size airplane, so that may be considered when I say performance.

Minn flyer: I hear you loud and clear. It just depends what compromises you are willing to make to satisfy your requirements. I could still make the trip to the fuel strip, but I would have to drive my crew cab dually, and I go to the field almost every day. For the price of fuel for a month, I could buy another airplane. I did comment that I miss just what you insist on having.

Les

Mode One

I think both systems will eventually wear out. With care, most flyers get excellent service from their glow engines. I could see windings burning out in an electric motor, but can go along with possibly longer service life from an electric.

I don't have a problem with people being interested in the quietness, cleanliness and ease of electric and understand due to lack of dirtyness and vibration there is less wear and tear on the airframe.

However, at this time, I understand electric to cost considerably more! I am attracted to electric and if it wasn't so much more expensive I would likely be doing some of it. I also love glow and certainly will be staying with it.

My original point was I don't see that many people doing electric and don't understand why the R/C press is giving it so much space.

Then again, I don't think the retailers would be stocking the stuff if it wasn't selling!