KenR

My Feedback: (17)

I have a Walt Moucha PJ 260 almost framed and need to decide on paint system to use.Is an automotive paint like PPG Concept a good one or should I consider Stits or Glass Kote? I have never done any painting on cloth before but have painted a lot of cars and fiberglass.

Thanks for any advice!

Ken

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Ken, I responded to your other post...but this one is a little more specific so I'll add a few more words for whatever they may be worth. I've never used Stits but have a friend does. It is his favorite material and he gets super results with it. I think it says something that it's the favorite system of a guy who has been painting planes for over thirty years.

But, like I said elsewhere. I've gotten comfortable with the latex/enamel system and use it on large scale jobs. It produces a very durable and economical finish that is easy to work. Been using the materials for abpuit 15 years and have no complaints. The one thing I'd add is that as opposed to some popular methods, I apply the latex a high quality artist brush rather than a throwaway foam. I thin the latex to the consistancy of a light cream any do the priming/filling in at least three coats (sometimes more). Here's why: When dry the latex becomes a multi-layer finish. That is, the fines/fillers in the paint migrate to the surface while the sub-surface is a "rubber" material ....that's almost impossible to sand should you get a sag. So, sags ought to be avoided at all cost by applying very thin coats, therefore avoiding runs or sags. If you do get a sag, immediately wipe it out with a damp cloth and simply allow the coat to dry. Chances are, the wiped spot will disappear .

BTW, automotive finishing materials will work fine with fabrics like Sig Skyloft or Coverite. I've also used lacquer base materials over "Tex" products with good results. The Base Coat/Clear Coat systems are the most friendly all-be-it expensive. I have a (paint)restoration business and have been spoiled by using Base Coat/clear as it is almost devoid of quirks (blushing, ect.).In closing let me add that the most attractive thing about Rustoleum , top quality aside, is that it is a mimimal system requireing only paint and thinner, while more sophisticted systems may require paint, maybe anti-fisheye, reducer, thinner, and maybe catalyists. And, if you are working in a confined space, enamel fumes are relatively harmless compared to some more exotic materials.

If you have any more specific questions I'll be glad to help where I can. Again good luck with the PJ.

KenR

My Feedback: (17)

Hello Susquach. I just noticed you are in Kerrville, Tx! Is that down around San Antonio?I have lots of experience using the base/clear systems. I have used RM Diamont products extensively only never on cloth before. For some reason my first post did not show up so I did another. Hope it does not confuse folks. I actually have two biplanes almost ready to paint. Both being Walt Moucha kits. The one is the PJ 260 and the other is the Marquart Charger, just a little smaller at 72 ". Your post discribed to a tee why I do want to use latex on these planes. I do not want that "soft " paint. I want a shiny, harder surface, easy to keep clean and easy to do my star burst and scallop designs allowing easy placement of vinyl grafics. Sounds like I just talked myself into base/clearcoat???~! I did speak with the guy at Klasskote today. Only issue with that is he says it will yellow over the years. I did a Yellow Aircraft AT-6 with Stits paint a year or so ago and it reminds me of the latex paint. It is 'soft" in texture.

What is the first step on the fabric? Nitrate dope? Then automotive primer, then paint??

Ken

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

If you can go the Base/clear route it will certainly avoid some of the inherent problems of the more traditional systems. I think something like a Nasson Classic clear using a medium hardner would give you the glassy finish that you want.

BTW, I've used that clear over a number of bases. Currently I'm pretty happy with a pragmatic system I'm using over sheeted surfaces that consists of water base polyurethane/glass cloth filled with lacquer surfacer/primer ... spot filled with Ever Coat...base color coated with Rusoleum flat white out of a simple rattle can. Trim colors are Krylon (it sux I know, but the red and blue are a close (enough) match for MonoKote and once clear coated it becoms durable. All the colors are fuel proffed and striping sealed down with a coat of Nasson classic clear. What results is a fuselage finish that will closely match Monokoted wings and tail group in color and gloss. Actually, the clear coat gloss is a little higher than the MonoKote, but over time the clear will wear slightly to a very close match. The Nasson Classic is water clear so yellowing shouldn't be a problem.

A change I would make in the system is to swap the Ful Fill surfacer with an epoxy type surfacer and limiting the number of initial polyurethane coats to one or two medium coats. The Epoxy is sprayed on , levels quickly and sands well without shrinkage. A note about toe Nasson epoxy material: Works far better to shoot, cure then sand (scuff) surface before before using spot filler or glaze. If the glaze is appled to the epoxy surfacer before sanding it does a poor job of feathering. Just thougth I'd mention that although you are no doubt fully aware.

Just rambling .....there are a few things that are perhaps worth mentioning: Latex is maybe the worlds best filler/primer. Can't think of a paint that doesn't like the stuff. Likewise, Latex really likes Coverite, Ciconite and Skyloft. Can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to acomplish exactly the finish you want using Latex as filler/primer with an intermediate layer of Lacquer primer (or epoxy primer) to achieve a glass smooth base for whatever color coat(s) / clear you elect to use. BTW, switching to an automotive primer/surfacer allows you to wet sand and fill in preparation for the color coats. Just have to be carefull not to cut into the Latex while wet sanding. Potential flaws show better when wet sanding than when dry sanding latex. About the Nasson clear coat.....the clear requires only two components...the clear and a hardner. The Base colors consists of just the color that can actually be cut slightly with a common wash lacquer thinner. Then, again I'm probably telling you something you already know.

One last thing that I've encountered that I've not seen mentioned anywhere before regarding the use of common polyester dress linning as covering material: I've used it a number of times with success and so have a lot of other folks. However, I found out the hard way that apparently not all polyester dress linnings are created equal, and don't hold shrinkage as well as others. As a result I decided to stick with reliable old Skyloft for the most reliable/economical base material. Although, it is more work to fill than the other fabrics I mentioned.

One last mention....Krylon color easily lifts when masking tape is placed over it ..... so that might give you a problem if you use that product. The stuff is really crummy (IMHO), but is harmless once clear coated. Just thought I'd elaborate on that.

In short...if you can go with the Base/clear system, you ought to have a knockout finish!



Oh yeah, Kerrville.... the capital of Old Folks Nation and white tail deer... is indeed just northwest of Alamo town.

KenR

My Feedback: (17)

I may try the Nasson clear over some SolarTex I have on a Robinhood 99. I used the colored Solartex and have not found a clear that it liked. Even tried Lowes variety polyurathane to no avail. Just gave me a really "gritty" finish and nothing would flow out before it dried. I think I tried an Omni clear and a Diamont.

Do you have a club you fly at in your area?

Ken

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

Yep....we fly from a land fill site and have a sanctioned club of about 35 members....with a few exceptions we are all retired geezers who fly a variety of barely airworthy craft. []