shiver

I need to slow one of my planes down to land. I have been told that you increase the risk of tip stalling by using flaperons. What effect do spoilerons have? Will it slow the plane down? or just decrease the lift.

shiver

Seems if you dont have dedicated flaps neither is a good idea - so fast landings it is.

gene6029

Shiver, I own a model that lands fast and i have run it off the end of the field before. One of the guys at the field told me to raise both my ailerons to max throw in the up position just after touch down. I did it and the plane rolls about 40 feet and stops like someone it pushing it to the ground. I have gone to full throttle as an experiment & the plane wont accellerate fast enough to take off. Word of caution tho, make sure you are on the ground before deploying the switch. If you arent you will be fast. Hope this may help you ouy some....good luck Gene

cap10b

Shiver,
That's a good question -

1. I have a Composite 50cc Extra 330 that floats........bad......real bad. If you leave any power on the plane with even the slightest head wind you can’t land, the plane won’t stop flying. Answer - put a little spoileron into the mix along with some E>F mix and now the plane comes down and will slow down enough to land. But !! Beware that now your stall speed has jumped up somewhat. If you’re not careful you can stall at 1 foot off the runway and this has a tendency to tear the gear out of the plane.

2. I have a thin wing 50cc Cap 21 that just screams Snap on landing so much so that everyone at my field is scared to death of the plane. While this plane can be a hand full and if you don’t watch your speed it will stall on any maneuver at any time, the landing can be hairy if you don’t dial in some flaperon along with F>E mix. I have my Cap 21 set up with flight modes where I "turn down" the throws to low rate IMAC throws for landing (IE... 10 degree of throw or less) with expo (20 - 25)

This gives me a linear feel to the elevator and allows me to have more throw at stall speed so I don’t run out of elevator on landing and rip the gear out. Again you have to watch your airspeed and the ground affects as sometimes this set up causes the plane to float a little as the flaperon keep the plane from settling in and stalling. And the Cap is very nasty about not warning you about an impending stall. So you have to be somewhat of a flying Savant, know what the plane is doing and how fast or slow you really are in comparison to the altitude you are flying at any one time.

Best thing to do is experiment. You didnt mention what radio you use. Mine are all Airtronics RDS8000 2.4 and the Stylus.

Best of luck to you

Johnny

LuftwaffeOberst

Hold on my friend... America is still in the dark, most people like to sleep in a little later on a Saturday. It's 6:58 AM in NY. The only reason I'm up is I have a Wee one in the other room that woke me up at 4:00 wanting his Bottle.

Flaperons work just like flaps and has the same effect. The only difference is that with Flaperons... you have a little less aileron control. ( Meaning if your flaperon throw rate is high, you will have less role control.) Flaperons should be set at a very low rate at first... start out with 3/8 throw and test it out. If you need it to slow down more than gradually increace the throw.

All spoilerons do is give you greater lift and helps you stay in control in tight turns and in slow speeds. The Bf-109's had them... they made a terrible noise when they slamed in or out. The only difference is the spoilerons do not slow you down... just give you better slow speed control and helps you maintain altitude at slower speeds.

Flaps slows the plane down and gives you increased lift. Flaperons does the same thing using your ailerons as the flap.

Hope I helped.

P. Dowling

Mode One

My understanding is Spoilerons are the exact opposite of Flapperons. They are not meant as a method of controlling bank; but, are a method of killing lift. I use and love my Flapperons on my Ultra Stick! However, they do decrease roll control and if to much is used, I literally run out of ailreron. I use the three position switch to control and have the rate set at 30% and 50% of total throw. This works well on this particular airplane and at 50%, still allows adequate aileron control. (The throw amount was the amount of aileron suggested in the Hanger 9 assembly book). I have not used the spoileron method; but, have used spoilers on my sailplanes. I'm going to set-up my Senior Telemaster with both Spoilerons and flapperons and experiment with both.

David Bathe

OK just to make sure everyone's clear.
Flaperons go down, like flaps. This increases lift at low airspeed but, because they're using the whole length of the wing span, increase the chance of tip stalling. Think as in terms of negative wingtip washout.
It isn't with out reason flaps are found on the inner section of the wing.

Spoilerons go up, thus spoilling the airflow across the top of the wing. This decreases lift, whilst at the same time, also decreasing the chance of tip stalling. Very useful of you have a snap happy aircraft.

So: If you want to get a plane down quickly, because it's a floater, or you're visiting a field that has a short runway, Spoilerons. I use them on my pattern planes.
And they're REAL effective. Turn them on once you've lined up with the runway. Otherwise you stand the chance of coming up short... like in the field adjacent to the runway.
Don't ask how I know that.

Mode One

I'm sure it depends on the airplane; but, my Ultra Stick has no bad tendancies with the flapperons fully deployed. How much "Fully deployed" can be tolerated, needs to be determined up in the air and not during a landing approach.

Other airplanes may be intolerant of flaperon use. So, you need to experiment. I am not talking about the use of flaperons or spoilerons on 3D aircraft, either.

Yes, flaps (flapperons) increase lift and what happens when you increase lift? You also increase drag.

jetmech05

some airplanes don't have ailerons but use either flaperons or spoilerons...flaperons are flaps that either increase or decrease travel to control roll...both down equal, are standard flaps..used to increase lift at lower airspeeds...spoilerons are spoilers that can come up to control roll...both up in flight can act as a speed break...both up equal on the ground and they are spoilers...
whether the airplane is into the wind or with a tail wind has no effect on stall speed as airspeed stays the same..only ground speed changes...ever fly an airplane into a stiff wind? you can make the airplane hover, airspeed is enough to keep the plane flying..but ground speed can be zero or even negative.
to slow an airplane down you can increase prop length, or add speed breaks...flaps only slows an airplane because of increased drag but then you also get increased lift, and more float.

shiver

How would increasing the prop length slow it down? More drag.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I think David made the point clearly so everyone could understand. I have Flaperons set up on one plane and have them slaved to my elevator, I pull up elevator and they start to come down, how far just depends on how much up I give the plane. At slow speed it does rock and roll a bit and does want to do a little snap but nothing too bad. I have a little 68 inch CG Extra with the spoilerons set to my throttle, from mid throttle down they start to raise slowly as I slow down. They are fun, I can drop the plane when I'm too high to make some good landings. I look at these mixes as just plane fun and something to play with. Give them a try and see how you like them yourself!! Do it high up and see what works for you, if you like it then keep the set up. That's one of the reasons we buy these way cool radios!!![8D]

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Keep in mind that flaps are not designed to slow an airplane down... They are used to create more lift so that the airplane CAN fly slower because they lower the stall speed.

In other words, suppose plane "A" will stall at 30mph, but if you drop some flaps it won't stall until it goes below 25mph. So you can safely land at say, 27mph instead of 33mph (Gotta stay above the stall speed)

Spoilers are designed to decrease lift. Think about this scenario which you all have probably experienced: You are flying a trainer with a high-lift wing. You want to land, but you're a little high, so you point the nose down to decrease altitude. But now, the plane picks up speed, so when you flair, the excess speed translates to lift and the plane balloons, right?

Now, the same scenario, but this time instead of nosing the plane down to decrease altitude, you deploy spoilers. What happens now is the plane's pitch does not change, but the plane "sinks". That is, the plane just drops to a lower altitude without changing pitch or increasing speed. The problem with using them on a model is that once you have reached your desired altitude, they should be stowed (Turned off) so you're plane is flying again and not sinking, and this happens at one of the most critical times (Just before touchdown).

I have often considered using a computer radio to program spoilers into the throttle stick so that at, let's say 1/8 throttle, the throttle servo won't go any lower, but now the spoiler servo kicks in. So the last 1/8 of the throttle stick controls the spoilers so that you have easy access to spoiler control.

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

I use both flaperons and spoilers on nearly all my planes, certainly the Sticks, fun fly and 3D planes.

I have flaperons coupled to elevator to give tighter maneuvers. This gives me some reserve in some areas.

I use spoilers for most all landings. They are a lot of fun to play with. They make spot landings easy and on a windy day, you can get a near vertical descent. My spoilers are mixed to throttle. At half throttle, they start to deploy and are fully up at idle. Fully up is around 20 degrees. If I add a little power on final, the spoilers drop slightly. On a touch and go, the spoilers are back down in the normal aileron position at half throttle.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I don't know what plane you have? But have you tried moving the CG back to slow the landing a little? I use spoilerone for some 3D stuff but never to land. Mine are mixed to the elev so landings would be difficult.

David

Stick 40

I use spoilerons on my hanger 9 .40 - .50 size j3 cub. I found it would not stay on the ground for landings. I don't put them all the way up. But it works great, the cub touchs down and stays there. Different planes may react differnently than a cub to spoilerons, but I have done it on a goldburg j3 cub also and it worked.

sticks

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

And for those that didn't know, I'm a student of the Ed Moorman school of fun fly planes. I teach my students to stunt a plane using Ed's cut out tutorials from RC Report magazine. How about doing that book I keep bugging you about ED?? Gene

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I think I'm going to have to try this! Sounds really fun.

jetmech05

Shiver Yes increased prop length will slow the airplane down to due increased drag...try 1 inch longer

LuftwaffeOberst

Yes... but if you want good advice, don't use a larger prop than that is recommended for your engine... You will burn out your motor. Some people in here failed to tell you that.

I've decreasing the pitch on my props before. It does slow down the plane some and it won't slow down your RPM. Less grab from the prop, slower plane and the engine works a little easier.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Joe, keep your plane up about three mistakes high if you want to start playing with these mixes the first few times. Not all planes like them. That little Hots I fly with the flaperons mixed into the elevator in one of my fool around planes. I can hit the switch and do a loop so tight it tries to kiss it's own hinder poo. On real windy days I can hit the switch and get it to hover in one spot and fly backwards. I have the spoilerons set up in my Harley Extra and it's just fun to hit the switch and slow it down when it's real high and drop the plane down onto the runway. If you can find someone at your field that saved there old RC Report magazines you can borrow them and print out Ed's how to articles and staple them together and take them out with you to the field and learn some great fun flying stunts. I think your planes will do everything he has shown us over the years. It's a kick and I use his how tos to teach students stunt flying. Just Plane Fun!!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Why doesn't someone do this and publish it? [X(]

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Ask ED!!! I have asked him several times and I'm not the only one. I followed Ed for a number of years and think he should not just publish his stunts but write a book with some of his stories about not just him but his friends like Flaps and other buddy's. Ed hangs with some guys that need there stories told. Once these guys are gone there is no one to replace them. True pearls of wisdom!! Come on Ed!!!

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Go ahead

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet.

Full span ailerons are ok for flapperons. They work pretty well in some cases, they are useless in others, it just depends on the plane.

Wing tip ailerons though, you don't want to fool with with flapperons. Lowering outboard ailerons is adding wash in and inviting tip stall.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Full span ailerons are better as flapperons than outboard ailerons, but neither is a good idea.