RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

If I had to venture a guess I would say that it's going to be sooner than later before we lose them. Just recently the old UHF television channel frequencies were put up for auction by the FCC, and the resulting sale was the largest amount EVER paid for frequencies to the FCC. Who bought them?? The major telecommunications companies. These frequencies are perfect for the long range transmission of wireless internet. They want these frequencies to feed wireless internet. So what does this have to do with us?? Our frequencies are nestled right in with the current VHF frequencies. Once those go offline as the industry goes digital those TV frequencies will become available for auction as well. Currently this is scheduled for this summer. As soon as this happens you will start seeing a push to shut down the 72 Mhz band by the FCC. I understand that the AMA will be our voice in Washington at the FCC, but considering that they will be speaking with the likes of AT&T, Verizon, and the other large telecoms I imagine the AMA's voice is going to be very weak indeed. 2.4 Ghz radios are more than likely going to be the last straw in this discussion. Since we have something else we can use there will be no argument about keeping the 72 Mhz range open.

Trust me that I'm not trying to be Mr. Doom and Gloom. I have 2.4 Ghz radios, but I also have 8 72 Mhz radios that get used. So I'm not in a hurry to see the 72 Mhz band die. But I'm also a realist in that it's more than likely going to happen. I would rather work at it a little bit at a time and move my stuff over to 2.4 instead of find out one day that I only have 30 days in order to have it switched out because I won't be able to use 72 Mhz any longer.

That's my 2¢ on the subject. Your mileage may vary.

Ken

TFF

I just emailed Dave Mathewson on this.

Luftwaffe Oberst

Good, I'd like to read his answer on this subject. When he sends you one let us know TFF OK?

TFF

My email:

Hello

I was wondering if you can address the 72 mhz question, is it going to stay? With the excitement of the chance of not being shot down, a great amount of publicity is given to the new 2.4 ghz radios. The excitement looks as if now only people are using 2.4 which is not the case. If I were a new modeler or needed a 14 channel radio, I would buy 2.4, but for me, I will not need a new main radio for years as I bought a new radio just before the 2.4s came out, and I have some compliant Kraft radios for some of the older planes for fun from my first time in the hobby. At the club field, there is a good number or new 2,4s out there, but I would say 80% of our 100 member club are 72mhz and will stay that way for a long time.
I know it is difficult work to handle subjects like this and without a lot of clout, but I hope this fight is being made, and I hope if 2.4 becomes a way of life, it wont be a shock but be incremental like the way the "new" 72 mhz channels were introduced.

Thank you
Tom Faires
AMA739522


Reply:

Hi Tom,
For decades AMA has retained a Washington law firm to address any issues we
have as a result of legislation or regulation that would impact the use of
all frequencies set aside for aeromodeling. We continue to retain that firm
and have no plans to sever that relationship. In one of my earlier columns
in Model Aviation I mentioned that in mid 2008 we added a new AMA position
titled Government and Regulatory Affairs Representative and part of the job
description for that position is to advocate for and protect our members
concerns relative to all government agencies including the FCC.

However, the facts remain that the part of the band where frequencies now
identified for use for model aviation (and surface RC up on 75 MHz) reside
is drawing the attention of large corporate entities, especially those in
the commercial and public use arena. Entities that may be willing to, in
some cases, pay significant dollars to operate there. This along with the
fact that as technology advances more and more of us will be moving away
from these frequencies is going to present a challenge for us.

We recognize that we still have a significant number of members who continue
to fly on 72 MHz and have no interest in changing. We intend to continue to
fight to retain these frequencies for the foreseeable future. If and when
the times comes, and I have no idea of when that might be - or at this point
if it will even happen, we will work to negotiate a phase out plan just as
we did last time around. I fell pretty good about us being able to do that
if we have to.
Dave

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Well . . . . That's as very definite Maybe

ira d

At my field im quite sure there are more people on 2.4 than the 72 band of course
many folks including myself still use both but 72 is definitely on the way out.

I think within five years we are going to see the people that want the 72 band
knocking at the door and im sure there will be some type of phase out for the
modelers.

Luftwaffe Oberst

It will be for some time though if they do start to faze it out. Like Dave said, AMA will continue to fight it. It's not good to count chickens before they hatch, right fellows? It's nothing to sweat over right now... that's my take on it.

Luftwaffe Oberst

Oh yea, thanks TFF for your letter to our AMA President, and Posting his response.

sensei

I moved to 2.4 nearly 2 1/2 years ago, and would never consider going back to 72. There are just too many great things going for it over the 72...

Bob

TFF

What I dont like about 2.4 is that the whole band is shared. Right now it is underutilized and the FCC is trying to push all the consumer stuff into the band. When it becomes saturated with users, you might not crash your plane because the radio senses a signal but what if it is so saturated down the road that you dont get to fly. At least the 72s are set aside as protected frequencies. The frequency hopping could or like could be done with 72 if the laws were changed. The old radios could still fly and the new ones would be smart enough to stay away for the used channels. I love technology but I think we may have sold the farm. What would have been better is that we should have asked for a block somewhere and been allowed to use it as we pleased as hobbyists.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

If I flew at a club on Sundays, I would use 2.4 Ghz. But I fly in a isolated area with one or two other guys and we all use only 72 Mhz.

So if you fly with a bunch of guys around, you owe it to yourself to use 2.4 Ghz. If you've ever been shot down by someone clicking on a transmitter on the same frequency for a second, you will convert to 2.4 Ghz

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

I would like to ask what reasons people have for being completely resistant to 2.4ghz over 72mhz? I am curious im not trying to get speachy or anything. I have both right now but am moving to 2.4ghz permanently. I did see the post about it being overused. Where is it being used outside of rc now? I understand about the cordless phones but newer phones are moving to 5.8ghz but what other devices are being moved to 2.4? my reasons for moving to 2.4 are simple we have so many people( i live in an urban setting) around us that may use 72 mhz and i wouldnt know it. its becoming cheaper for people to fly airplanes because of cheaper hobby store foam parkflyers etc that I dont know who all have them. Also for isntance I have a Helimax helicopter that is on 72 and I bet that some that buy these heli's arent informed on radios enough to know not to just turn on the radios and fly anywhere. so the local flying club has several instances of interference from people flying parkflyer etc near the field. Im not even worried about the cost if you think about it the cost is a waste anyhow but what i worry about is safety. how long before a guy flying a giant scale yak on 72 careens into someone because someone thought their little parkflyer's radio is only line of sight. aside from the crashing into someone that is what happened at the local field. someone flying a giant scale airplane with 72 crashed because some guy was flying a little park flyer near the field and shot him down. the guy whos giant scale crashed also works the hobby store so when the guy came in complaining his plane was acting goofy somehow in the conversation it came out about where he was flying and frequencies etc. the danger of a flying vehicle was the reason the 72 was specified to air in the first place.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

When 2.4 first came out for R/C I decided that was the direction I was headed but I have to use up the 72 stuff that I currently have.

You cannot give 72 Mhz radios away at a swap meet. No one wants it. I don't either but I have it.

TFF

Bluetooth and WLAN 2.4 computer networks are two. There are some small towns that have wireless internet through out the town trying to bring in industry; one giant hot spot, and as internet becomes a required accessory to life and access has to be seamless at all times, more and more of these blocks of high frequencies will be needed.

sensei

I for one have been shot down twice in the last 40 years from a simple flip of someones switch, and that is no fun when you lose; in the latest case an $11000.00 airplane; I also fly at many events, and with 2.4; I just don't have to worry about the impound allowing someone to put the trans back in with the switch on, and trust me it happens all the time guys. Another added bonus is 2.4 is a long way from 72 and RF noise is a thing of the past for me now. I placed some 350 flight all over the country with a system as follows: Fromeco wolverine switch with the added 3rd output, so I ran two batts in and powered two rec. and the ignition module from one switch, and never had even a hint of trouble; this was a DX-7 system on a 40% Carden 260.

Bob

OldScaleGuy

My Feedback: (2)

Here is another perspective. I held off on 2.4 when it first came out just to be sure it was going to do what the manufacturers said it would. There were some technical issues early on that were fixed quickly. Now the problem for me personally and perhaps a number of others is I am unemployed. While i still fly, i am flying on 72mhz and due to the fact that i do not have employment have no immediate plans to start the change over to 2.4. Please don't misunderstand, i would love to but when it comes to buying a new radio versus making a mortgage payment, you know where the money goes. I have flown 72mhz for many years and right now the plan is to continue to do just that. As far as being shot down. I was shot down once 20+ years ago by a newbie that came out to the rc field. That is the risk that remains but if you go to an organized field your chances of being shot down are at least reduced. On another point, the more flyers that convert to 2.4 further reduces the risk of being shot down on 72. IMHO if and when 72 is phased out we will be given ample notice to change over similar to the time frame given to go to narrow band years ago. I cannot remember what that time frame was but it was, as i recall, a significant amount of time.

sensei

Although I agree that there may be lower risk flying at an AMA sanctioned sight or event, it can still happen; because it happend to me and both were AMA sights...

Bob

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

The only issues that I have with 2.4 is that I currently own 4 72Mhz radios. 1 is 9 years old, 1 is 6 years old, 1 is 4 years old, and one is one year old.

At some point, I will begin to replace my older radios with 2.4Ghz. But I don't want to be forced to replace all of them at once. I would prefer to make the transistion via attrition. And previous radios that I owned lasted over 20 years. I realize that technology changes more rapidly as we move forward. And that I shouldn't expect to operate my current radios for 20 years. But I would hope to have at least 8 or 10 years to make the complete transition.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I'm also hoping for some 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation 2.4 designs to come along in the meanwhile

OldScaleGuy

My Feedback: (2)

Appears as if one my earlier statements is incorrect. Check this out, there are still some technical issues out there.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/news.cfm?news_id=338

raceahallic

Hay w8ye I will take your 72 stuff. I thought there would be more 72 at the last swop meet then there was. Still not sold on the hole 2.4 yet seen too many problems with them.

andrew66

Well, i probably shouldnt buy a 2.4 cause im on a budget, but if i loose my plane cause of glitches and being shot down, I will be out alot more. It will all be a gradual shift towards bigger better things. Look at full scale aviation. They are phasing in GPS in a big way, and i bet the NDBs will slowly start being unplugged. Thats just part of life. Technology will always be changing. Anyone that is getting into the hobby that i know, im telling them all to get 2.4. no sense on buying into old inferior technology. not that there is anything wrong with the equip, but it will be rendered useless probably in the next 5 years or so.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

I suspect most folks are not as resistant to changing to 2.4 as they are to spending $200.00 to $1,000.00+ on an item that they do not really need. Most of them will probably go to 2.4 systems as their 72MHz systems get old, but most of us can't afford to spend the money while we have perfectly good systems now.

Sandmann_AU

I suspect many people felt that way when wax cylinders were replaced by vinyl records, and those by reel to reel/eight track/cassette tapes, and those by compact disks. Many people said the same thing when it was suggested they upgrade from black and white TV's to colour to plasma/LCD screens, or VHS cassettes to DVD and now to BluRay. How about analogue cellphones to digital ones? Windows 3 to Windows 95 to Windows XP to Windows Vista? In all these cases - as with the move to 2.4ghz - there were those who saw the benefits and jumped, and those who clung to the old ways until forced by circumstance to make the change. From my point of view it only takes one model to be shot down by someone else turning on a radio or by some other miscreant signal to make the purchase of 2.4ghz equipment a financial winner. Sure, there's likely to be new and exotic problems with 2.4ghz that we've not yet found but from what I can see they're much fewer and rarer than the problems that occur with the older technology. If I didn't already have a 2.4ghz system I'd be scrambling to update to one, starting with my most expensive/treasured models. If nothing else, the fact that you only need one transmitter and don't have to change crystals and settings for every plane is enough for me.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

If one wanted to jam your system on 72mhz all they would need is another transmitter that you could get at a swap meet for practically nothing. Then they would probably not be fined.