Ok so i am redoing an old plane, i have never flown it or seen it flown. but i have taxied it in the street(no wings on). but my question is the engine is a GP 15 is this underpowered for a plane of this size? or will it make it a nice slow plane to learn on?

Just looking. Looks like you may be a little under sized. I have seen a model that was similer to yours fly with a saito-36. It flew ok I guess. Looked like a powered glider to me. Not sure what a .15 would do. If it does pull it off the ground keep a slow rate of climb

not enough imformation prvided.need span area and finished weight to give an imformed opinion.looks like a powered glider type design which would not require a large engine.most 2 meter will be powered with an .049

Hi RegFlyer
Learning to fly by yourself usually means failure. Find an AMA club in your area by going to http://www.modelaircraft.org/ Most clubs will teach you to fly free.

The airplane shown does not have ailerons. It is not suitable as a trainer.

Ed S

just because there are no airlerons has nothing to do with being a trainer.three of the best trainer designs were 3 channel designs,s-ray,h-ray,kadet.there were others.

Looks like the wing form the Dynaflite Butterfly or glider equal with a custom fuse; probably designed for a payload. .15 is the recommended engine size for the Butterfly but you have a little extra drag with the different fuse. It is not going to have a 45 deg climb angle but I am sure it flies fine. Get some help to learn how to fly; it will save the airplane and your sanity.

I plan on going though all the right hoops, I have seen to many people get a plane and try to fly it. lucky for them the only thing damaged was the plane and the ground. i am going to get my AMA membership long before I ever take a plane in the air.

Next question later down the road what size engine should i go with, I'm not looking to make it a speed demon. the plane is build for a payload. it use to house a camera for air surveillance at the National labs back home. I figured that im not going to be haling around a camera so i added a bigger fuel tank.

So why do airplanes have ailerons? Maybe you are not too particular about learning to fly properly in the U.S. The training programme stipulated by the Canadian national association (M.A.A.C.) stipulates all four functions are mandatory.

Ed S

That airplane is a collage of components and I think TFF hit it right on that wing. I too beleve the wing is a Dynaflight Butterfly and the fuselage is cut down from some genaric forty sized trainer and why it is so fat. The original butterfly fuse was quite slender and built light.


They were intended to fly on .15's and did OK just sort of up fly around and land but were underpowed, but 25's were on the outer limits simply because of that weakly built wing which would fold easily when you started doing loops an such.

All bets are off on that airplane as I think it may come out heavier so performance is anyones guess.

There is nothing wrong with using a Rudder-throttle-airplane for a trainer and a slow introduction into the learning curve and the thought that an airplane can,t be a trainer simply because it is three control is just absurd.

John

Is that how full size flying is taught?

Ed S

The subject is not nor has it been teaching full scale.

My opinion remains: The idea a three control airplane cannot be used for intial training because it does not have ailerons is indeed absurd!


I can assure you I and I doubt the original poster could care less what the 'Model Aeronautics Asssociation of Canada' or you may attempt to "Stipulate" means nothing to me an American.

Have I good evening Ed.

John

I agree, It's much easier to get in trouble with ailerons. While I DO recommend a 4-channel plane to start with, I have NO reservations teaching someone on 3 channels

ESPECIALLY if it is a powered glider like the one above!

Now to answer the original question...

There's really no way for us to tell, but with a wing that long, I would have no problem at least TRYING the 15 before spending money on something bigger.

Many dawn of aviation planes were rudder/ elevator Fokker Spin for one. I like flying RE planes and built my son's Sig Kadet old school RE/E. He is not so interested in flying so it makes it easer for him to enjoy; he has no interest just like being out there with me. Flying them are easer but flying them well and making the perform can be a fun challenge. It is also relaxing as you can just poke at the sticks when you want. Not all planes have to be "real" planes and I mainly build scale stuff and am an A&P by trade and fly planes and helis for fun.

Better question.
Why didn't the Wright brothers use ailerons? Oh I guess its because they didn't fly in Canada.

You are aware, I assume that in the event of a three channel plane the rudder would be on the aileron channel any way so its still being used on the correct and normal stick and therefore the student really doesn't know the difference any way except perhaps in ground handling. Maybe Canada has too many big brothers watching things they don't really need to be watching.

As for the original question I probably would have bought a 25 to start with but if a 15 is what ya got then by all means give it try. I wonder how well it will fly at all, gliders fly very well but they are light. The Dynaflite Butterfly weighs in at 50 OZ. just over 3 lbs. how much is this thing gonna weigh and what is its new and improved wing loading going to be. keep us posted it will be interesting to see.

LOL what have i started.

that's funny, I learned on a 2 channel glider, then a 3 channel powered glider before I moved into 4 channel glow stuff. I've taught at least three people how to fly a three channel zagi, ya its evelvons but hay. It is ridiculous to think you can't learn on a three channel ship, it is not the best way to learn mainly because the instructor usually would have to relearn how to fly 3 channels., as long as an experienced flier tests the plane and teaches him here isn't anything wrong with it

I also have a 4 channel trainer to learn on. but i figured that soloing on a slow 3 channel would be easier.

Ok, let's stick to the topic.

Its a fat butterfly [&o].

Jez, what with the aileron junkies?[]
I learnt to fly in 73 using a 6 channel radio... but only using rudder with the classic three channel set up![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Everyone learnt to fly using rudder only those days and certainly before. I think it still preferable even today.
The trainer planes we had those day, BB Super Sixty, Comco Cadet... big, underpowered, plenty of dihedral where basically RC versions of super stable free flight models.
EXCELLENT to learn on.
I think your model will be brilliant... and certainly speed up the learning process compared to todays trainer options.
Power wise... hard to tell. Stand by with a .25.
The reason is, back then we had great open spaces to land on... whereever the wind decided to blow us routine.
Today , we have runways,,and rules. You need to make sure you're able to get back to where you want to be if the wind picks up.
Can be still on the ground and real breezy up there.
Very cool plane.
Enjoy the learning process.

This is my other trainer, its a .40 sized superstar upgraded with flaperons. [>:]

In my opinion the wing is bigger than 2 mts. and the fuse is sooo fat, then I would bolt the engine that you already have in your trainer and see what happens, I bet that you are planning to bolt some kind of landing gear. The plane will float fine but it could be very hard to get some altitude with that fuse.

I'm willing to bet that the 15 will be enough power.

I'm with Mini-flyer, bet it flys fine. I can still remember my first flights, had only rudder on a rubber band powered esc., not even throttle control and it was still fun.