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Please recommend a plane

Old 04-07-2010, 02:55 PM
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ilektron
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Default Please recommend a plane

I am new to planes, and I am looking for a plane that meets the following conditions

1. Around 80" wingspan . Something in the size range of a Telemaster Senior or Sig Kadet.
2. Can comfortably cruise at 80-100mph without crazy modifications
3. ARFor RTF
4. Can carry around 2 lb payload

Anybody have any suggestions? I am looking into the GP 70" Revolver, 84" Reactor, or Giant Super Sportster available from TowerHobbies.com.

And don't worry, I won't be flying it. An experienced RCpilot would fly it.
Old 04-08-2010, 06:14 AM
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guille2006
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

So; you want to make a UAV; isn't?
If so, drop me a PM
Old 04-10-2010, 01:03 AM
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F1
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=43

Try the Super Sports Senior 90 from Airborne-Models. My Dad and I both have one and they are very very stable planes and it will fly at that speed when applied. Very good plane. Lands like a dream. I have an O.S. .61 on it now. Thinking of going gas and putting a 20cc of somekind on it.
Old 04-10-2010, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Threads like this always worry me some......why a 2 LB payload?
Old 04-10-2010, 04:39 PM
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F1
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

LOL, That does sound kinda odd!!!
Old 04-10-2010, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Check out the BTE (Bruce Tharpe Engineering) Flyin' King. It's temporarily out of stock, but it's worth the wait.
DaveB

http://www.btemodels.com/flyin_king.html
Old 04-12-2010, 07:07 AM
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guille2006
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

BEWARE HERE!!!!

I received the PM from Ilektron pointing that needs a fast plane to carry 2 lbs. and "maybe" an Autopilot, explains also a ned to fly a certain distance but without specifying how far is it.
As an UAV expert I answer him several questions that I need to know in order to help him properly. I have to confess that I was looking for a job opportunity too but...:

1- Did not receive any answer (technical... I don't care here for the job opp.)
2- Digged for other posts from him in other threads and I didn't liked what I found: please, make your research, is easy.
3- NO ONE designs a "small" fast plane (revolver type, look point 2) for 2 lbs payload... all the planes with that payload type weights more than 20 Kg and for sure are autopiloted.
4- NO ONE designs a UAV for flying "some distance"; we desing in action radius but mostly on endurance.

DO I HAVE TO BE WORRIED TOO??

Ilektron; Sorry If I bother you but this is modelers forum and you're not being clear; the way you're behaving in this forum is strange.
Old 04-12-2010, 11:44 PM
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ilektron
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

@guille2006 - As my Italian teacher would say, "Ma dai! Ragazzi!" I apologize for not not replying, I kind of gave up on the forum after being run out of the revolver forum. I did not want to distract people in the revolver forum by explaining myself there, but because I started this thread, I feel like defending myself.

You hit it on the nose that nobody makes anything this small, and usually for a range and loiter abilities far beyond anything I need. I just need line of sight for the most part. Additionally, most UAV airframes are made of a carbon composite that interferes with RF signals. Carbon fiber raises another point. You know how much those carbon fiber planes cost? And the cost of operating them? I'm just trying to build a research platform on the cheap. For what? I can't say due to the interests of the company I work for. I know that NDAs and RC models don't often cross paths, so please forgive me if I seem odd. Can I also say that I am not a modeler? Some day I hope to buy a plane (if I can ever convince my wife to let me).

One last thing... what nefarious acts do you people think I'm doing? Spying on your mother at 100mph?

But, regardless. I do have to thank those for the suggestions. I will check them out.

Ilektron
Old 04-13-2010, 06:37 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Great!!!!
I want to underline you that as an UAV professional I really can/want to help you. But, no program anywhere is so secret that you can't answer by PM two simple/basic/necessary questions such: "What's your scope?; what's your mission?"
Besides; are you designing a kind of space shuttle? NO: Jane's All worls UAS is full of planes like the one you want to do with no even 1 gram of carbon fiber.
Again; I'm still offering my help... and we can keep it as classified as you want. Just PM.
Cheers
Old 04-16-2010, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

ilektron,
to answer your question as to what you could be up to, every modeler at least thinks about the fact that any number of dangerous or illegal items could be carried by an RC plane. Explosives, chemical agents, guns, drugs, etc. With the current homeland security issues, the FAA is becoming more and more interested in the activities of aeromodeling. The hobby has done an outstanding job (imo) of policing itself to not even give the appearance of doing anything dangerous or illegal. So when a post pops up about carrying a payload we get nervous, and when the poster is secretive about his activites we get much more so. Add to that you say you don't know much about flying models and that really looks suspicious because the interest is obviously about carrying the payload, not building the model itself.

The truth is there are plenty of models that could carry an extra 2 pounds and could fly at that speed with it. But if you aren't going to be open about what you are up to, I'm not inclined to answer any of your questions and I hope others don't either.
Old 04-16-2010, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

I feel the way jester does...not being a modeler is obvious.......not being a modeler on a model forum asking about an aircraft with payload capabilities...worrisome
Old 04-16-2010, 11:13 AM
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ilektron
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Does anybody actually have any stories of people misusing rc airplanes in said manners?  Documented stories are even better.  

2 lbs isn't exactly enough to carry guns, or a worthwhile amount of drugs short ranges.  You can't do much with 2 lbs of reactive chemicals, and it seems like there are easier ways to deliver dangerous or illegal items line of sight.  Additionally, consider 2 lbs line of sight.  Once you start going beyond line of sight you need to either add a camera or an autopilot, larger batteries, transmitters, datalinks, sensors, etc... 2lbs starts shrinking very rapidly.  Also, 100mph isn't exactly fast when compared with just about any actual sized air vehicle.

To me it just seems like a culture of fear.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure an rc airplane would hurt like the dickens if it hit you WOT, but has anybody had the FAA show up at their airfield?  Seems like this could be an interesting topic of discussion.
Old 04-16-2010, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane


ORIGINAL: ilektron

Does anybody actually have any stories of people misusing rc airplanes in said manners?.
There are many many stories well documented and no so well documented. I've several of those (It's part of my job); you can google about this issue too.
But I'll not tell them in this forum nor other one.
BTW: It's not yet clear the scope of your plane...

Regards
Old 04-16-2010, 01:45 PM
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MikeL
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane


ORIGINAL: ilektron

To me it just seems like a culture of fear. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure an rc airplane would hurt like the dickens if it hit you WOT, but has anybody had the FAA show up at their airfield? Seems like this could be an interesting topic of discussion.
It is a culture of fear, and for good reason. Flying fields are lost to urban sprawl regularly. The FAA has started the process of bringing regulation to the type of flying you're interested in. You want to use the equipment we use in order to achieve your objective, whatever that is. You lack the skills, experience, and knowledge to have a clue as to what you're doing. You're not interested in our hobby.

How would it benefit any of us to help you? It wouldn't.

Old 04-16-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

The very fact that he minimizes the amount of damage a 2 pound payload could potentially cause raises a red flag. And to say that he can't tell us what his mission is "due to the interests of the company I work for" is both insulting and ridiculous. I am gratified that nobody has jumped at the chance to assist this guy to do something that smells so fishy. At this point, it would take a whole lot more explanation justifying his intended mission than it would have if he had simply given a plausible goal in his very first post. Being evasive has REALLY compounded his credibility, at least in my mind. Until he comes up with a really good explanation of what he is trying to do, I hope nobody gives him the information he wants.
Old 04-16-2010, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

I'm currently a Sophomore Aerospace Engineer at Virginia Tech, working on 3 small-scale UAV design teams. I know exactly what 2lbs and 100mph can do. None of them have any major CF in them, and I've never seen CF shield 2.4GHz signal. I've been involved with 6 small-scale UAV design teams. You can't imagine the kind of trouble people can get into with the tiniest of leeways if you're not a trouble-maker.

Please, under no circumstances should anyone help this guy. If for no other reason than this: As stated before, he's not interested in RC. The FAA isn't always completely fond of us anyway (especially with these huge planes constantly encroaching on the 55lb limit). Doing something like this will do nothing but piss the FAA off more. People like him can end r/c for the people that actually love this hobby. If his company is that classified, then they should also have the resources to attain the information he's asking us.
Old 04-16-2010, 11:40 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

I know just what he needs.

Old 04-17-2010, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

ilektron - the truth is you are probably a decent human being just working on a legitimate project. That's what I think anyway. But if you're being secretive about it, I, and aparrently the others here too, are not inclined to help you. Are there document incidents of people carrying out terrorist attacks using RC airplanes? I don't know of any. And we in the hobby plan to keep it that way. It will take exactly one nutjob stuffing a bird with dynamite or cyanide or nuclear material and killing someone for the government to make some knee jerk regulations in order to look like they are doing something about it. So we hobbyists are very wary of people asking questions like you are asking, because we don't want to even give the appearance of this sort of experimenting being ok. The truth is, a 2 pound payload could easily be a small scale experiment to ramp up later into a much bigger project. As one other poster wisely indicated, if you are working on a project that is so classified that you can't talk about your payload, then you are working for a company that can hire an experienced modeler to consult with you. Your story doesn't add up, and I for one hope to not see posts from you on this forum again.

Paul
Old 04-17-2010, 10:15 AM
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ilektron
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

First off, you can rest easy. I have long since given up getting help from the online community. Now I'm just interested in the topic.

ORIGINAL: JollyPopper

The very fact that he minimizes the amount of damage a 2 pound payload could potentially cause raises a red flag.
Why? I disagree that 2lbs payload can be much scarier than the plane itself. Glows carry gas, and electrics...

xkcd.com/651/

Not to mention the kinetic energy these sport planes have at high speeds. The only articles I've found are of people being harmed involve someone getting hit by a plane.

ORIGINAL: MikeL

You lack the skills, experience, and knowledge to have a clue as to what you're doing. You're not interested in our hobby.
Well, that was kind of rude. Do you have a bridge to hide under? I assure you that the only thing I lack is experience. I did own a $50 RTF cheapo plane that Icrashed more times than it could handle. My experience lies in quadrotors, which I designed, simulated, built, and flew. Ironically, I have been fascinated with the hobby since Iwas a young. Hopefully in next couple of years I'll have the personal finances to build myself a plane, assuming I don't bring the hobby to its knees.

ORIGINAL: victorzamora
None of them have any major CF in them, and I've never seen CF shield 2.4GHz signal. I've been involved with 6 small-scale UAV design teams.
Did you know that carbon is a conductor? Most commercial UAVs made from composites have radomes that are either an ABS plastic, fiber glass or something similar. If you search around a little, you can find plenty examples of troubles with CFand radios.

ORIGINAL: Charlie P.

I know just what he needs.

Hmm... Can you suggest one that works with a 2lb payload and launches it nice and smooth at 100mph?

Old 04-17-2010, 10:56 AM
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ilektron
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

ilektron - the truth is you are probably a decent human being just working on a legitimate project. That's what I think anyway.
I appreciate that, and for that I will respect your wishes and won't post again.

Farewell! I'm off to do my meterological study of fast moving and rapidly expanding swamp gasses.

Ilektron
Old 04-17-2010, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane


ORIGINAL: ilektron
Well, that was kind of rude. Do you have a bridge to hide under? I assure you that the only thing I lack is experience. I did own a $50 RTF cheapo plane that Icrashed more times than it could handle. My experience lies in quadrotors, which I designed, simulated, built, and flew. Ironically, I have been fascinated with the hobby since Iwas a young. Hopefully in next couple of years I'll have the personal finances to build myself a plane, assuming I don't bring the hobby to its knees.
Hey, I've read what you've written, and my assessment is an accurate one. Ignorance isn't a bad thing; it's the level of knowledge most of us have about things we aren't involved in. I'm glad you've played with toys and exhibited fascination. It doesn't add up to a hill of beans, however.

Again, why should anyone help you when you won't be forthright and can accomplish nothing but harm to something that the rest of us all care about and enjoy?

If you want to be insulting, take it elsewhere.

Old 04-17-2010, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Yes, I knew that CF is a conductor. In fact, I've been dealing with purely composite aircraft all year with a 2.4GHz radio. We have played with it with a couple centuries' worth of experience, and have found out that CF is a better conductor through individual fibers than anything (like fiber optics). CF does limit 2.4GHz noticeably....but it's not like you're going to get 0 radio contact because of a strip of CF in the plane.

Either way, my point's the same: most small-scale UAV's won't need ANY carbon fiber in them.

And, as pointed out above, a suitable system can be EASILY scaled up from any platform that works on a small scale.
Old 04-17-2010, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

It would appear that the conversation is now moot since the OP has chosen not to post here anymore. I think we'd all agree that we hate to be unhelpful to a guy who asks questions on here, but we do have to be vigilant against helping someone who seems suspicious. I have really appreciated the people on this forum who take their time to help others (and there are many) and will continue to offer my help when I see a legitimate modeler asking questions. I suspect the rest of us will do the same.
Old 04-18-2010, 03:11 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

It would appear that the conversation is now moot since the OP has chosen not to post here anymore. I think we'd all agree that we hate to be unhelpful to a guy who asks questions on here, but we do have to be vigilant against helping someone who seems suspicious. I have really appreciated the people on this forum who take their time to help others (and there are many) and will continue to offer my help when I see a legitimate modeler asking questions. I suspect the rest of us will do the same.

As you say Jester; one day you help, the other you're helped...
But to help means also that the assisted person has to extend his hand too... In this case I have to say that I love RC modelling and UAVs (also looking for another job opportunity, is that so bad?) and tried to help him too, but how to help if the hand seems suspiciusly hidden?
As someone said up there; the most probable thing is has a good/non dangerous scope... But I've a lot of documents that I'll not share even in PM that demostrates and explains the LARGE DAMAGE YOU CAN MAKE WITH LESS THAN 1KG OF PAYLOAD IN A RC PLANE. Again; I'll not share that info, not in a open forum nor in PM; I'm just saying that can be done and if someone seem suspicious on that way I'm not keen to help him.
I'd love to continue this thread anyway as a kind of "Security in RC modelling" or so...
Regards to all
G.
Old 04-18-2010, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: Please recommend a plane

Our field had a vist from a......Govt. Employee, who was visiting all RC fields in the area......with some information on what to look for concerning possibly suspicious individuals with regards to terrorism. The general criteria was that such an individual would be a pretty obvious newbie to RC airplanes, interested in larger scale, fasterairplanes.

This thread possibly raisesa flag for me as well. I'm certainly not drawing any conclusions or making any concrete accusations, but the OP and subsequent responses doesn't ring true to me.

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