RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

&lt;meta charset="utf-8"/><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; ">I think that if you're not crashing, you're not pushing yourself.  If you're comfortable with doing no more than the bare minimum, that's fine...but it's not enough for me.  I push the envelope flight after flight, trying to put nothing at risk other than my airplane.<div>
</div><div>Once you learned to fly in the air, why would you ever get off the buddy box if you're terrified of crashing?  It's part of the hobby that needs to be minimised, and I'd much rather crash because of my thumbs than equipment anyway.  I've heard of airplanes and helicopters defined as a loosely related group of materials and parts that fly together in approximately the same trajectory at about the same speed.  You can't keep it all perfect forever.</div></div>

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

Very, very good info! I am amazed that some of the things you have stated I have been doing in small parts just by flying a lot and experimenting. I have not had anyone to tell me how or about many of the things you typed about.

On the subject of giving full throttle when flying level accross the runway about 20 feet up, are there other variables such as, the style of the plane (ex: a Twist vs a Pulse XT - two different designs), the size of the engine (plane overpowered), balance points on the plane (CG), etc.? Would correcting the motor angle be the same for Nitro engines and are you implying this is not done with any trim work as in using any elevator correction?

I am very curious because I believe the key to a lot of our problems is a good flying plane verses one that is half setup and flys poorly.

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

Staying on top of the risk to either the mechanical or flight envelope takes effort that some give more of than others and none are perfect at.

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

I recently had a crash (not too serious thankfully) and discovered that my RX battery had dropped off to 4v even though when I took off it was at 5. Still not sure of why, but from what I understand from recent info from AMA, battery failure represents about 20% of reported crashes. That's a first for me. You can be sure that I will make damn sure my battery is topped off when I hit the field from now on!

Most of my crashes are due to the fact that I'm pushing my plane beyond its ability and sometimes that catches up with you, especially if you're close to the deck. When you're vertical 20' from the ground and your engine conks out, you can't do anything about it. That's what happened to my brand new 74" Edge a couple of years ago. My bad...being 20' off the deck with a new untested plane is REALLY stupid.

We have a guy in the club that flies a 100CC ugly stick sort of thingie. It's one of two planes I've ever seen him with and he never crashes. Why? He flies really high circuits and then lands. That's it. Nary a spin or loop.

I would have to say that your style of flying has everything to do with how often you crash or not-all things considered...

Steve

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

Funny I have a Twist .60 and Mini Pulse XT. It shouldn't matter - but CG certainly is an issue which must be correct. I should have said that since that could be the cause of the climb.

I've been learning about fuel setups the past couple years but I do think the issues are the same, although I'd be hesitant changing a Great Planes recommended thrust angle. I have yet to change a fuel plane thrust angle or factor setup thrust angle. I do frequently change PUSHER jet (Stryker, FunJet, Projeti) mounts and angles. I find the manufacturer likes a high mount and nose down thrust. I push the mount low onto the thrustline and point just below the nose - almost 90 degrees to the thrust angle right on the thrust line. So I think the thrust angle test is an indicator first that your CG could be off. If you change the motor mount - then you may have to correct the angle of the motor.

CG:

It's very easy to know when you're tail heavy - but how do you know when you pushed too much weight to the nose. We all know a tail heavy plane is a beast to fly, but not really (more in a minute), a nose heavy plane flys better but will introduce bad things to your setup.

Tail Heavy:
You take off - immediately you porpoise nose up, then you push it down and it's a handful. Simple solution - Come off the throttle and fly slow. A Tail heavy plane fly soooo sweet slowly, and lands easier and slower than a perfect CG setup. You are flying more nose up attitude and you get more lift so slow flying is cake. So slow it down - bring it around and land it calmly.

I'll stand next to a newbie and never take control until he's in real trouble. Sometimes they say - "Take It". I calmly say "You're doing fine - just turn right and come off the throttle". Speaking calmly and showing you have confidence in them is important. They also get the thrill of recovering while they have a parachute on the buddy box. One guy screamed just before I pulled it out of the nose dive. Hey I get to have fun too :)

Nose Heavy:
Many don't know they're nose heavy. Your first indicator is a sloppy aileron roll. A nose heavy plane will have up elevator trimmed to compensate for the extra weight. So trim at half throttle - push to full and if she climbs - you could be nose heavy. Play with the CG - all listed CG points are not perfect. You usually have an inch to play with. Some guys like a loose setup so they move CG back. 3D setups favor tail heavy over nose heavy. Fast planes like a little nose weight or perfect CG so she rolls nice and is responsive but doesn't pitch up and down under full throttle.

I fly a very fast jet a foot off the ground. I can bring it in with motor off - get it level at 1 foot, slam the throttle and she will not budge up/down. She might shutter a little left due to the torque - but I usually increase at a steady rate and not slam the throttle. I'll have to get a video to show you this. I freak the guys out at the club with the high speed flying so low. I always hear "You don't like that plane very much". Two days ago I pulled out going into the wind a couple feet above the ground and didn't take into account the corn is now six feet tall. Normally the wind is right down the runway. I was flying with a very fast gasser wing and was watching him land and slammed into the corn at 120 mph. Damn that was fun. A little front end damage. One of the elevon horns broke - that shows the servos are super strong, the horn broke rather than the servo gear.

Here's my slower 3S TwinJet, which I won't fly as low since it's not as stable as my 4S Projeti. My Projeti is just so solid in the air. But majorly modified from stock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd2aF7YifYo

Vinnie

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

I am reading this book, which has a very interesting approach to the mind set and reactions of pilots.
Some of the phenomena that it references to, which cannot be easily explained, can be applied to RC pilots very well.
I recommend it to any pilot:

"The naked pilot : the human factor in aircraft accidents" / Beaty, David.

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

You will crash if you fly R/C. You don't have a pit crew checking every nut and bolt like real airplanes. But you can minimize the chances of a crash. Practice manuevers high before bringing them low.

MillerHill - I don't use the NiCd or NiMh batteries in my gassers. I run all LiPos with a regulator. I can put a larger LiPo and keep the same weight. I understand LiPos better and have a huge stock of them.

I push my planes - but I always use the proper equipment. I learned through trial and error and self taught. I NEVER recommend anyone to learn self taught unless you have alot of money and time to repair from crashes, but I think I learned more than most from each crash. I'd never do it again if I went back though. Just too much heart ache. I've had planes rip themselves apart in the air. The worst resulted in a crash at about 90 mph and the LiPos burst into flames - end result is on YouTube. Wings were weak since I bought from someone who must have soaked them in something that make the wood brittle. Then I pushed it way too fast. Great flying plane too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAD-gHIjG0

I have had jets rip themselves in half at over 100 mph, LiPos are shot like Torpedoes. I push my planes really hard and recently on SECOND Flight I crashed a Giant Scale Pitts Challenger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFNaN-1UyAQ

I didn't follow my own advice and when I tested for CG - flew inverted and she climbed. But since it flew great as you see above, I ignored it. Dumb - I put it into an inverted flat spin. A tail heavy plane flat spins perfectly - but is very hard to pull out. She pounded in the corn. I will rebuild it though.

Once you fly great - you'll still crash. Just don't be the guy who throws the plane or you'll be to blame. Also NEVER talk to someone when they are flying or YOUR TO BLAME. Once I crashed and to illustrate the fact that it's NEVER the pilots fault, I turned around and a buddy's dog was sitting there. I yell - "WHY DID YOU MAKE ME CRASH !". Heh heh - gotta have a sense of humor or you'd better just take up video games. :) When you crash your buddies will avoid you - taboo to say ANYTHING to someone who just crashed since you rarely say anything that is smart.

Crashing too much will get you out of the hobby. Just know we all go through the same learning curve - just some faster than others and some with more ability to go further. Learn in a slow progression and don't jump to fast between planes. Fly ONE plane and do with it what no one else can then move to the next plane.

Vinnie

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

To be determined not to crash may not protect you from crashing. However, I would wager that if one were to add a strong confidence and the application of practice and good pre-flight checks the risks would be greatly narrowed down. Maybe even to the point that crashing would be minimal to naught. I have found that once I fly a plane 50-100 times or more I can almost fly it without even thinking about it. I simply have knowledge and understanding of what it will do.

It just sort of becomes part of my natural moves. I sort of feel the movements of the plane and when landing I understand the characteristics so well that I can even "play" with it when winds cross the runway. I have certain "fly-points" in my mind that I try to obtain on take off and landing to improve my skills. Was I able to fly the plane that way in the first 5-10 flights just after her maiden? Heck, no way, but I learned the characteristics of the aircraft.

When I read about your archery, I sensed that very thing in your words. You knew exactly what you had to do and you blocked out the rest knowing what would happen had you not been true to target.

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

From JustGoFly....

THANKS! Appreciate the detail you put into responding.

RE: Crashing - a part of the hobby?
 

There are 2 types of RC pilots... those that have crashed and those that will. Flying for 40 years or 40 minutes.. everyone gets their turn in the barrel..

That said.. the single most important piece of advice is 'keep flying the plane'... many piles of balsa never came to be thru that wisdom..