JohnP2

Would love to hear what you guys are running and thoughts on your setup. My single favorite aspect to 1/8 nitro is the clutch setupboth wrenching on it and how thevehicleresponds. I'm stilllearning (andwill always continue to learn) but it's one area I lovemost. Clutches make a huge difference in how a car handles. From the collet to the final shim! That much I KNOW. ;-)

1. M2C 4-shoe aluminum (medium)my Mugen. Haven't run it yet, but this is my dream clutch. You can add/remove weight from your flywheelI to dictate how long it takes to spool. I went with .95 springs.
2, Losi 810.I'm running another M2C 3-shoe (aluminumlight)on my beloved Losi 810. Went from the stock 2-composite shoe to this and WOWit made a difference.
3. I can't speak to Werks, Buku, etc, but I really like M2C clutches! They are very tunable monsters. ;-)
4.My son's Losi 8ight is running stock 2-composite shoe. Orderedtwo additionalLosi aluminumshoes, pins, and springs. I've not dug in to it yet, and will be curious to seethe quality of this clutch setup.
5. Everything else stock, and I just maintain them. Hyper 7 stock is the best stock clutch I have. The Mugen stock clutch looks really nice (3-shoe aluminum 1.0 springs). I have no idea what I'll do with it.

What are you guysrunning?

rccheech

M2C is a great clutch system, On my 8 2.0 I use the stock clutch setup, I've used every aspect of spring and shoe combo you could think of, depending on the track and condition, or what engine I'm running, but I run on various different tracks so it would be hard to say what setup I like best, on a high bit track I will go withh a higher stall speed, if its a dry loose track Ill start with a lower stall speed and go fron there, I use up alot of springs on practice day sometimes.

nitroexpress

The M2C is a good clutch with lots of adjustability. But when you want to change a setup, it's money out of the pocket. Shoes andsprings cost money and there is no guarantee that the change is going to be better. This is where the Buku clutch shines. Easy to change setups at the track and no additional cash outlay. The Buku offers a shoe to clutch bellengagement that noother design offers.

JohnP2

One day I'll try a Werks or Buku. I've talked to ol' Mitch at M2C a lot about clutches (he likes to talk RC more than I do). Ha! I figured more folks would be interested in talking clutch setup.

If you have never tried it, look at all the ways you can tune it - try a few and report back. There's a lot that goes in to it. I might not know suspension yet, but I know clutches. It's a lot of fun to see the differences you can make with it. 

I've noticed Losi has some "degree" springs. I sometimes cut my springs at the tail and assume I am accomlishing the same effect? Also learning that HPI clutch bearings 5x10x4 suck. Stay away from those. Switching to some ProTek's to see how they do.

JohnP2

I do have a few questions about the Losi setup for anyone that's used them. In just look at the exploded diagram, it seems quite unique. Appreciate anyone's help.

1. Do the springs seat on the flywheel or the clutch nut?
2. If the latter, do I need to remove the clutch nut....or can I install shoes with flywheel on the shaft?
3. If the former, assuming the clutch nut is brutal to get off (I had to dremel the last stock Losi nut off) are the pins that screw into the flywheel tough enough to use my flywheel wrench on them - not a big fan of the channel lock with a rag on the wheel method.
4. Do I need to shim the aluminum shoes on the flywheel? I ask because some setups you don't need to.

Thanks!

rccheech

The Springs seat to the flywheel body itself. The nut for the flywheel is on the inside, has nothing to do with the spring seating.

The clutch shoes can be changed with out taking the fly wheel off the engine unless the pins/screws get malled and they usually do. I heat the ears up with a micro torch to free the threadlocker with a slot cut into the button head of the screw and take them out with a standard screwdriver, i use new ones everytime when changing shoes. I have alot of built clutches with alot of combos to take to the tracks with me, just what i perfer to do...kinda hassle free.

The pins are bolts that hold the shoes on the flywheel, the only way to grt the flywheel of is the method you described or a similar....i think losi makes a flywheel tool....i think... I do not use it.

No shims used for the shoes on the stock losi clutch.

Hope this answers your questions for ya!!

JohnP2

This helps a lot, sir. I appreciate it. I took the clutchbell off (had to use channel locks with cloth on the flywheel). Good thing the hardware came with a new screw as it's on its last legs.

I was a little surprised as I thought the stock came with composite, but they are aluminum...and jacked to no end. In all fairness this is closing in on a gallon, but damn! Clutch bell is okay (other than full of gunk), and of course the bearings are shot. This is my fault as I should have known better and maintained it earlier.

I'm just gonna clean it all up, pop on new bearings along with two additional alum shoes and let him go another race or two then put on an after-market (maybe eventry out aWerks or Buku).

In looking at the setup, it appears to be either incredibly easy....or a beating of epic proportions.

NOTE: I'll post pics once the issue with uploading is fixed. Thanks again

rccheech

I will admit there are ALOT of easier-to-maintain clutches out there, the Losi four shoe clutch isn't that bad once you get the hang of it.

JohnP2

I wish I could post a pic of how bad it is. I'm gonna start seating my new setups. In the past I did not seat until gettingmy secondsetup (including clutch-bell) as I did not want to rev engine on break in. The first rev I giveto engage clutch bellgoing forward will be to seat the clutch. I usually just hold it on the ground tight and give half-throttle for 3 seconds. If there is a better way to seat, let me know. Thanks!

rccheech

That method about sums it up for seating the clutch, I usually have someone hold it down while I throttle up, they will lift it off and as soon as they do Ill let off, we do that about three or four times and its done. I seen Dakota Phend (TLR driver) and his dad doing this at our MSCS races....so I kinda figured if the pros do it, its probably the best way they found. Nothing beats a fresh clutch feel.

JohnP2

To follow up, I found the TLR clutch setup to be easiest to install out of any other shoes I've installed. Wow. I I was expecting the worse but got both shoes on in less than 30 seconds. I thought I lucked out on the first one but did the second one in half the time. Then I thought, "I must have put those on wrong" so took them off and did it again. Everything looks fine.

I think now I will just go ahead an order two composite shoes as he can't run like this. I've never seen shoes this worn....They are big fat, Texas-sized mushrooms. ;-)

rccheech

The composite shoes are aggressive, in turn wear out quickly, along with the blue aluminium ones too, you can try the long wear shoes, a little harder, they will last longer, not as agressive either though, they work pretty good for me on a really dusty dry slick track.... I could babble about clutches all day though...lol

JohnP2

Oh I understand. ha ha! Let this be the Information Superhighway's official thread on 1/8 nitro clutch setups. ;-)

It's my favorite part of the 1/8 nitro vehicle. I still have a LOT to learn, but I love learning it and seeing the difference!

I saw some improvement in my son's buggy, but there is a lag. It engages, and then engages again a fraction of a second later. I'll try and post a vid of it. I'm thinkingit's one of the following:

1.Because it's been upgraded to 4-shoe, it has exposed transition timing in the engine, and I just need totune the engine around it.
2. The two EXTREMELEY worn alum shoes are on silver springs (I believe Losi'sstrongest) and the two new alum are on black (I believe their softest)? Perhaps the new shoes are engaging then the worn out shoes on the stiffer springs are.

Of course the acid test will be at the track to gauge traction. From there I'll just start trying to find the forumula that works best (my neighbors are going to love me). ;-)

rccheech

Yeah, you want to replace all shoes at the same time, the effect you are getting is exactly what you described. It will only get worse.

JohnP2

I noticed definite improvement after putting the additional shoes on my son's Losi 8ight at the track this past weekend.Running the stock 350, this buggy really needshelp getting thatoomph to take on big jumps coming out of corners.

I'm replacing them with two composites prior to his race on Saturday.

JohnP2

This Losi clutch system is very easy to use. I took off the worn alum shoes today and put two composites on. Current setup is two alum with black springs, and two composite with gold springs. We'll see how that works.

The new alum ones were already showing wear - this after only two tanks. I want at least 1/2 gallon before serious wear starts to show. If their shoes were inexpensive, I'd understand....

rccheech

With four shoes, the clutch will last longer, and give the car a much better punch from a dead dig.

JohnP2

I'm looking to upgrade my D8T's clutch setup from stock. Considering Werks or Buku. I LOVE M2C, but owe it to myself to try various setups so Ican become more educated on the subject of clutches.

NitroExpress, you stated Buku has "the best shoe to clutchbell engagement that no other design offers". Can you elaborate on that?

As much as I have to learn, the basic tenanttome is harboring that available RPM and snapping the instant it hits. i.e. screaming with some smoke the instance you hit the throttle).Please detail your statementregarding whatBuku offer that others don't.

nitroexpress

The short explanation concerning the advantages of the Buku clutch would be the shoe material and the adjustability of the clutch springs.

The bonded Komposite shoe material lasts twice as long as a traditional aluminum clutch shoe. It produces no clutch bell slag or shoe mushrooming. It’s range of engagement is wider than an aluminum shoe, while still providing a positive engagement. With proper adjustment, it produces less wheel spin and therefore better fuel mileage. Some have reported gaining 3 – 5 car lengths out of a corner, over the competition, because of the lack of wheel spin.

All adjustments can be done without removing the engine or clutch from the vehicle. Adjustments do not require additional parts such as different clutch springs or different weighted shoes.

JohnP2

Does this require replacing the clutchbell everytime you pur on new Komposite shoes? "Twice as long" is abstract. Twice as long compared to what? How many gallons?

I am interested in their spring tension methodology. I can certainly see the advantages. Smaller maintainance foot print with more tuning ability. I'm leaning toward this for my D8T. I LOVE my M2C 4-shoe I have on the Mugen. I'm still breaking it in, but the clutch isstanding out already. I love trying new things, however.

What Buku clutch kit would you guys recommend for a D8T with an O.S. .25xz? I looked at Werks, and part of their method replacing shoes requires a screw-driver to pry up the clutch "lid". Perhaps it is really easy, but anytime prying and screw-driver is used with a clutch, Icringe asthere is plenty of room for wear and tear.

supertib

I prefer M2C in Truggy over the Buku unless your on a very slippery surface....... The Buku excels at taming down the bottom end of a engine and making it smooth and easy to drive on a slick surface...However in Truggy on a grippy surface I find it to be far too mellow for my taste..... I use a Buku in Buggy and a M2C Truggy....

JohnP2

That's good to know, Neal. M2C is very aggressive and I'm sold on that. I'll call Mitch at M2C tomorrow to discuss hisrecommended setupfor this specific engine/buggy/track.I imagine I'll end up with a Buku on my son's 8ight 2.0 at some point.

Two questions for you guys:
1. What has been your best stock clutch setup?I've been impressed with the D8T's and OFNA Hyper7 has a good stock clutch.
2. How much play to you give yourclutch bell?I'm going through and reshimming all my clutches (Ihave a problem) asI'vefound bringing it makes a difference. I am setting about .5mm. I used to go double that.It also helps decrease bearing wear.I've found youcan always get the bell to splin like it's ice regardless of play...you just have to tinker with it. Less play seems better. Am I off here?

supertib

The Hotbodies stock clutch is quite good.....I would say a step above the Hypers...

I usually run a fair bit of play.....usually at least 1 mm and sometimes more.....