View Poll Results: A poll
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graphite or aluminum
01-30-2006 | 02:31 AM
#2
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From: none, TX
RE: graphite or aluminum
Aluminum obviously, considering that it is a metal, and that it bends instead of snapping like graphite. But titanium is stronger than both.
01-30-2006 | 09:57 PM
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From: Barrie,
ON, CANADA
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: mayhem maniac
Aluminum obviously, considering that it is a metal, and that it bends instead of snapping like graphite. But titanium is stronger than both.
Aluminum obviously, considering that it is a metal, and that it bends instead of snapping like graphite. But titanium is stronger than both.
01-30-2006 | 10:05 PM
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From: Hot Springs, AR
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: motopro
well i got this mugen chassis so i cant decide
ORIGINAL: monster man14
which one is stronger.ni know graphite is lighter
which one is stronger.ni know graphite is lighter
well i got this mugen chassis so i cant decide
any down falls from that chassis?
01-30-2006 | 11:04 PM
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From: brighton,
MI
RE: graphite or aluminum
you know it dont seem any lighter ...the chassis is 1mm thicker so i think they tried to keep it the same weight as original by milling it out and adding the cf
01-31-2006 | 02:23 AM
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From: lake city,
FL
RE: graphite or aluminum
maybe that chassis will work well, but i know there are potentially many problems. bonding aluminum and CF is always hard. getting the parts to stay bonded and not corrode has been a problem in the past. huge problem: different expansion rates as the chassis heats up from the engine. the chassis is a heatsink for the engine and does expand (alum expands quite a bit) and those two expand differently. maybe none of these problems will be evident, but they are potential problems in that chassis.
01-31-2006 | 05:33 AM
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From: st-bruno,
QC, CANADA
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: motopro
well i got this mugen chassis so i cant decide
ORIGINAL: monster man14
which one is stronger.ni know graphite is lighter
which one is stronger.ni know graphite is lighter
well i got this mugen chassis so i cant decide
Nice buggy man,
Did you get the sidegards from Rhino Fiber ?
01-31-2006 | 08:16 AM
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From: brighton,
MI
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: UF DUB
maybe that chassis will work well, but i know there are potentially many problems. bonding aluminum and CF is always hard. getting the parts to stay bonded and not corrode has been a problem in the past. huge problem: different expansion rates as the chassis heats up from the engine. the chassis is a heatsink for the engine and does expand (alum expands quite a bit) and those two expand differently. maybe none of these problems will be evident, but they are potential problems in that chassis.
maybe that chassis will work well, but i know there are potentially many problems. bonding aluminum and CF is always hard. getting the parts to stay bonded and not corrode has been a problem in the past. huge problem: different expansion rates as the chassis heats up from the engine. the chassis is a heatsink for the engine and does expand (alum expands quite a bit) and those two expand differently. maybe none of these problems will be evident, but they are potential problems in that chassis.
your wrong ...the carbon fibre is not bonded to the alumionum the 2 pieces in the chassis are there for rigidity and are held into place by screws holding the componets to the chassis
the side guards are from mugen
02-17-2006 | 08:02 AM
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From: Leeds,
AL
RE: graphite or aluminum
In regards to the carbon vs aluminum issue... A complex part made of carbon can be made many times stronger and more stiff than one produced from a single stamped plate of aluminum or even 6al-4v titanium. Take a look at any modern Formula One car...
A proper 1/8 scale carbon chassis is much more difficult to produce than a stamped aluminum or milled billet aluminum chassis. However the part could be made lighter and more stiff... Again, look at the Formula cars...
Dr. Van
A proper 1/8 scale carbon chassis is much more difficult to produce than a stamped aluminum or milled billet aluminum chassis. However the part could be made lighter and more stiff... Again, look at the Formula cars...
Dr. Van
02-17-2006 | 09:13 AM
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From: St. Erhard, SWITZERLAND
RE: graphite or aluminum
The K Factory chassis is, even though it's 1mm thicker, 35 grams lighter than the stock chassis.
The CF sideguards are made in Switzerland by the way.
You can't really compare and choose between these materials, because each of them has their advantages and disadvantages. Titanium is stronger than aluminium, but also heavier. Carbon fiber is lighter, but it can break.
An all carbon fiber chassis would not be optimal since it does not absorb heat from the engine. Also, the car would be much too stiff and we've seen what happens if a car is too stiff. *cough* Thunder Tiger *cough*. And a carbon chassis would suffer a lot more from all the scratches from bottoming out than an alum one.
The CF sideguards are made in Switzerland by the way.
You can't really compare and choose between these materials, because each of them has their advantages and disadvantages. Titanium is stronger than aluminium, but also heavier. Carbon fiber is lighter, but it can break.
An all carbon fiber chassis would not be optimal since it does not absorb heat from the engine. Also, the car would be much too stiff and we've seen what happens if a car is too stiff. *cough* Thunder Tiger *cough*. And a carbon chassis would suffer a lot more from all the scratches from bottoming out than an alum one.
02-17-2006 | 12:48 PM
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From: Barboursville,
VA
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: Dr.VanNostrin
In regards to the carbon vs aluminum issue... A complex part made of carbon can be made many times stronger and more stiff than one produced from a single stamped plate of aluminum or even 6al-4v titanium. Take a look at any modern Formula One car...
A proper 1/8 scale carbon chassis is much more difficult to produce than a stamped aluminum or milled billet aluminum chassis. However the part could be made lighter and more stiff... Again, look at the Formula cars...
Dr. Van
In regards to the carbon vs aluminum issue... A complex part made of carbon can be made many times stronger and more stiff than one produced from a single stamped plate of aluminum or even 6al-4v titanium. Take a look at any modern Formula One car...
A proper 1/8 scale carbon chassis is much more difficult to produce than a stamped aluminum or milled billet aluminum chassis. However the part could be made lighter and more stiff... Again, look at the Formula cars...
Dr. Van
To get back to topic Aluminum is deffinatly stronger then graphite. If graphite was fit for 1/8 buggies you would see top racers using it pretty often.
02-17-2006 | 05:10 PM
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From: middletown,
NY
RE: graphite or aluminum
i custom make carbon fiber chassis', and ill tell you this: it is the strongest , lightest, and most abusive resistant part you can own. YOU CANT BREAK IT!! ive tested, for over 2 years now, and tried every which way to break it. it wont happen. carbon fiber/ graphite doesnt snap or shatter, it splinters, somewhat similar to breaking a broomstick. it can absorb shock very well, nearly 3 times as much as aluminum, and flexes enough in a crash so that it will snap back instantly instead of bending or breaking. you truly have to beat the SH!@ out of it to break it. i tell you all this from experience, i dont play guessing games. the only downfall to cf is like previously stated, the heat issue. heat transfers more or less through carbon fiber, it does not absorb and disperse it like metal, this is the reason it can withstand extremely high temps. take a piece of cf and place it on top of a piece of aluminum, take a torch and touch the flame to the cf for about 15 secs, and see which is hotter. the cf will be warm, and the metal will burn you. aluminum chassis' dont disperse a noticeable amount of heat from the engine, ive tested alum and cf both in the same conditions with a temp gun. 2 tanks of fuel through the same engine, car and withing the same hour, there was only a 3-4 degree head temp difference between the 2. take a look at my ad in on road cars, the kyosho inferno gt with a 100% carbonfiber chassis, youll see the beauty of cf. i have some close up pics of just the chassis, email me@, [email protected] if u want to see them. i also make and sell chassis, so if anyone is interested, let me know and we can work something out. i can make almost any part for any car. all hand laid solid carbon fiber. thanks , mike
02-17-2006 | 06:56 PM
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From: Barboursville,
VA
RE: graphite or aluminum
ORIGINAL: rado5690
i custom make carbon fiber chassis', and ill tell you this: it is the strongest , lightest, and most abusive resistant part you can own. YOU CANT BREAK IT!! ive tested, for over 2 years now, and tried every which way to break it. it wont happen. carbon fiber/ graphite doesnt snap or shatter, it splinters, somewhat similar to breaking a broomstick. it can absorb shock very well, nearly 3 times as much as aluminum, and flexes enough in a crash so that it will snap back instantly instead of bending or breaking. you truly have to beat the SH!@ out of it to break it. i tell you all this from experience, i dont play guessing games. the only downfall to cf is like previously stated, the heat issue. heat transfers more or less through carbon fiber, it does not absorb and disperse it like metal, this is the reason it can withstand extremely high temps. take a piece of cf and place it on top of a piece of aluminum, take a torch and touch the flame to the cf for about 15 secs, and see which is hotter. the cf will be warm, and the metal will burn you. aluminum chassis' dont disperse a noticeable amount of heat from the engine, ive tested alum and cf both in the same conditions with a temp gun. 2 tanks of fuel through the same engine, car and withing the same hour, there was only a 3-4 degree head temp difference between the 2. take a look at my ad in on road cars, the kyosho inferno gt with a 100% carbonfiber chassis, youll see the beauty of cf. i have some close up pics of just the chassis, email me@, [email protected] if u want to see them. i also make and sell chassis, so if anyone is interested, let me know and we can work something out. i can make almost any part for any car. all hand laid solid carbon fiber. thanks , mike
i custom make carbon fiber chassis', and ill tell you this: it is the strongest , lightest, and most abusive resistant part you can own. YOU CANT BREAK IT!! ive tested, for over 2 years now, and tried every which way to break it. it wont happen. carbon fiber/ graphite doesnt snap or shatter, it splinters, somewhat similar to breaking a broomstick. it can absorb shock very well, nearly 3 times as much as aluminum, and flexes enough in a crash so that it will snap back instantly instead of bending or breaking. you truly have to beat the SH!@ out of it to break it. i tell you all this from experience, i dont play guessing games. the only downfall to cf is like previously stated, the heat issue. heat transfers more or less through carbon fiber, it does not absorb and disperse it like metal, this is the reason it can withstand extremely high temps. take a piece of cf and place it on top of a piece of aluminum, take a torch and touch the flame to the cf for about 15 secs, and see which is hotter. the cf will be warm, and the metal will burn you. aluminum chassis' dont disperse a noticeable amount of heat from the engine, ive tested alum and cf both in the same conditions with a temp gun. 2 tanks of fuel through the same engine, car and withing the same hour, there was only a 3-4 degree head temp difference between the 2. take a look at my ad in on road cars, the kyosho inferno gt with a 100% carbonfiber chassis, youll see the beauty of cf. i have some close up pics of just the chassis, email me@, [email protected] if u want to see them. i also make and sell chassis, so if anyone is interested, let me know and we can work something out. i can make almost any part for any car. all hand laid solid carbon fiber. thanks , mike
Edit: Have you driven a carbon fiber buggy chassis off-road?
02-17-2006 | 07:32 PM
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From: lake city,
FL
RE: graphite or aluminum
there are several different grades of CF. F1 carbon fiber is hand layed wiht the strands going in several directions and it is very thick. this is a very strong arrangement. however, many shock towers and suck use a lower grade. some of them use a graphite filler in the middle and the weave just onthe outside layer. CF can be very strong and i believe it could be a good chassis, i just have my reservations about mixing aluminum and CF. i know bonded CF and aluminum have corrosion problems and expansion rate issues.
but, i would love to see high quality CF chassis and towers and steering playes.
but, i would love to see high quality CF chassis and towers and steering playes.
02-17-2006 | 07:38 PM
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RE: graphite or aluminum
i'll take graphite over aluminum anyday. Aluminum isnt necessary. It just spreads stress to other parts on the vehicle. The better you drive, the less parts you break anyways.
02-18-2006 | 12:02 AM
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From: middletown,
NY
RE: graphite or aluminum
off road is where ive done most of my driving/ testing. and yes i do agree with you...the rc companies use crap cf and its basically just for looks, structurally its garbage. there are many different kinds, the 2x2 twill is what i have pictured and is some of the strongest. breaking and shattering has to do with poor quality products. there is a very specific procedure you have to follow in order to get the right resutls from any composite material, especially carbon fiber. my test results are based on high quality , and highly expensive prototypes. 1 chassis of this caliber costs roughly 350$ based on materials and labor. its this expensive, because there is a global shortage of carbon fiber, and decent composite fabrics are hard to come by and very expensive costing 50-100 dollars a yard, compared to fiberglass which is 3-4$ a yard. carbon fiber is far superior to aluminum in many many ways, but unless youve got the dough for GOOD cf, stick to aluminum.
02-18-2006 | 11:51 AM
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From: birmingham, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: graphite or aluminum
People are talking about the many diffenent grades of carbon fibre but nobody has mentioned the different grades of alluminium you can make aluminium a great heatsink but I am sure the best heatsink grade ALU wont make the best chassis. How good would aerospace grade alu compare to what RC companies use now? A comparison to the best CF against the best grade of ALU would be very interesting!
02-18-2006 | 12:36 PM
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From: Leeds,
AL
RE: graphite or aluminum
Ok!
Now were talking! I'm also developing a all carbon 1/8 buggy chassis. Rado, have you ever tried to vacuum bag your chassis in a mold? This is one way you can create custom shapes and control the stiffness of your chassis. Also, you may want to look into honeycomb sandwich layup to save some $ on the carbon. I can see were your cost of materials is high if you are building up 4 or 5mm of solid carbon. Ouch.
Another interesting idea is to lower the cars center of gravity. Using a mold technique will allow you to lower the engine as well as the fuel tank....Hmmmm. This would be a difficult engineering task with aluminum stamping. Cool stuff!
Just because the Pros aren't using a carbon chassis dosen't mean they won't. Hint Hint....
Dr. Van
Dr.Van
Now were talking! I'm also developing a all carbon 1/8 buggy chassis. Rado, have you ever tried to vacuum bag your chassis in a mold? This is one way you can create custom shapes and control the stiffness of your chassis. Also, you may want to look into honeycomb sandwich layup to save some $ on the carbon. I can see were your cost of materials is high if you are building up 4 or 5mm of solid carbon. Ouch.
Another interesting idea is to lower the cars center of gravity. Using a mold technique will allow you to lower the engine as well as the fuel tank....Hmmmm. This would be a difficult engineering task with aluminum stamping. Cool stuff!
Just because the Pros aren't using a carbon chassis dosen't mean they won't. Hint Hint....
Dr. Van
Dr.Van
02-19-2006 | 11:24 PM
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From: middletown,
NY
RE: graphite or aluminum
i have tried vacuum molds, they work very well in forming difficult shapes, however the finish on the piece comes out far from pleasing. it takes another layer over top of the molded piece to be able to have a nice shiny and glass like appearance. you will also be doing a whole lot of sanding and filling, which takes almost double the time. the honeycomb idea will definitely save costs, but it wont be anywhere close to as stong. and yes that much carbon does hurt the wallet, but i can sell a chassis of this grade for a considerable amount, and that is why people buy them from me, because its the real deal, no cut corners. it is expensive, but you get a part that is exactly what you paid for.......no joke strong as hell carbon fiber
02-20-2006 | 01:57 PM
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From: Leeds,
AL
RE: graphite or aluminum
Rado,
Check out this link: http://www.hexcel.com/NR/rdonlyres/5...Properties.pdf
Its got some interesting reading on the properties of honeycomb core construction. It has some interesting data regarding this type of layup. Aerospace as well as the military use this type of core construction.
As you may know Hexel is one of the largest producers of carbon fabric. Cool stuff!
Dr.V
Check out this link: http://www.hexcel.com/NR/rdonlyres/5...Properties.pdf
Its got some interesting reading on the properties of honeycomb core construction. It has some interesting data regarding this type of layup. Aerospace as well as the military use this type of core construction.
As you may know Hexel is one of the largest producers of carbon fabric. Cool stuff!
Dr.V
