zaintlouis

I originally posted this on R/CTech and the MP777SP2 Thread. for other s to see easily i think it's better to start it this way. Just hopeful i could help others no matter how little it maybe.

What i'm going to share to you is an idea that came to my mind 3 weeks ago. I call it the Zaint Suspension System hehe :-)

Medium springs at the bottom and hard springs at the top. i have a stiff stance at the back and further more.. your shocks extends to the fullest. However you can adjust the stiffness of your car depending on the length and hardness of the auxillary spring that you're gonna add.

The hard springs at the top starts to function when landing from jumps. this is also applicable to the front since the frt section lands first. oh yes i it performed well to me and i'm sticking to it. well you could just ignore it if you don't appreciate it.

nik77356

its a good idea but i dont like the fact that theres no droop you always want droop. great idea just some constructive criticism

ShootPaint

You are basically making a progressive spring. This is offered by a couple of different companies. I am not sure where to get these springs other than at A Main hobbies. That has been the only place I have seen them at the present.

Picture of the springs I am talking about.



Link to the detail page about them.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5677620/tm.htm

They have other models availible as well. A buddy used these on his MBX5 and it seemed to help quite a bit on the rougher tracks we run on.

If you are thinking something is wrong with the picture because the middle of the spring seems to be wider than the top or the bottom, your eyes are not decieving you. By increasing the diameter of the coil it will make the spring softer. So you have a dual rate spring like you are trying to produce above but there are no issues with alignment of the two springs or chasis droop.

j_blaze

what did you use between the shock, I actally had the same idea last week but no clue yet what to put in between.

nik77356

by the way that link just goes to this page

ShootPaint

Sorry about that. This link should work a little better.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5373

zaintlouis

it between the springs is the Adjustable Collar, see manual of your mp777 (BSW77) or your buggy, there has to be a similar name for that. That's where the spring rest at the upper end. It can obviously seen on the photo.

zaintlouis

Oh ok. droop! well as i said you can adjust the lenght of your auxillary spring to attain the desired stiffness or droop, what's the use of having or inventing a longer shock absorber? why would you like a longer shock absorber?

zaintlouis

My shocks absorbers extends to the fullest, can it do the same without retracting when it's at rest? everybody is having droops in their lifetime. just want to try something new this time, and maybe later on i would reduce my hard or short shock spring to attain or get a droop back. It depends when it's really needed.

I JUST HOPE THEY WOULD GATHER SCIENTIFIC DATA ON MY SHOCKS TOO, who knows i could get a better PERFORMANCE DATA than theirs hehe. i just hope i could help to those who have little penny to draw from their pocket. or instead spend their money to an aircraft grade aluminum parts. cheers fellas. i feel some kinda robin hood.

Oh about the alignment, the adjustable collar will do the job, you could use 4 pcs for each (maybe held back to back), i just use two. i think two is enough.

Super_Dave

Well your not the first to have the idea. Proline has that exact same type of spring system in production for some monster trucks. I never heard of anyone using it in an 1/8 buggy though so it might work out good with the right setup.

zaintlouis

oh well, atleast i have thought of that myself without knowing it has existed on monstertrucks.


Ey, instead of a droop, you can apply in a softer spring at the bottom for the third rate then make use of the traveling distance your shocks absorber can do.

ShootPaint

The biggest issue you are going to have is overall travel. The more spring guides/spaces you put on the shock to handle the change from one spring to the next will reduce the overall shock travel by the width of the spacer/guide. I know it doesnt sound like much but when you talk about doing three different rate springs you will most likely lose close to a 1/4 inch of travel. This will make it a lot easier for the suspension to bottom out putting undue stress on the shock tower, A-arms, and the shock body itself.

For the money you would spend on the extra spring guide/spacers and springs you could easily have purchased the progressive springs from my above post. They come in at least two different ratings, depending on your needs.

As stated before a buddy of mine uses these on his MB5 and they seem to allow for better traction, reduced chance of the chasis bottoming out off of jumps as well as soaking up bumps better dual to its dual rate abilities.

I know its fun to make things but sometimes it just not practical to follow through with them when someone else is already producing a item that is similar to what you are wanting to do and most likely will function as well or better than your design. One of the major design flaws with your idea is the use of two springs. Since you use two different springs it will be harder to keep them aligned for proper suspension travel not to mention get the return rate the same with out some special tools to measure the return rate.

Please dont take this as a knock on your idea it is simply some constructive critism.

zaintlouis

I don't have problem with the alignment you're talking about. Look it woks well to me ok. i wouldn't post this in the first place. Well maybe your freind didn't get the right set up correctly. it cannot be done by just one test only. just simply if you don't like it don't do it. Why stop people from trying what could be better for them than your expensive 23$ spring. are u a store owner or something? What i want to hear from people is application of the right length of auxillary spring. sorry about your criticism, am not gonna buy it. or whoever else will speak for you, i'm sticking to this idea firmly.


give me a break

xkwizt

setting up 1 set of spring stiffness to be just right is hard enough, i for 1 wouldnt want to add another set to make things more difficult. just to point something out look at some pro drivers drive, they steer superbly and jump superbly, so basically what im trying to say is standard shock and spring setups work theres no need for what your trying to do. just my 2 cents.

nik77356

you just want droop so that when you go over dips it doesnt upset the whole car.

zaintlouis

i agree, droop is essential. if i have a bad experience about this idea i'll remove my photos above. so just keep watching it. IF you still see it then it's the other way around :-)

yes one spring is enough, but normally, If you want stiffness you add spacers, there are even bigger ones if you want more stiffness, you get your desired stiffness with the spacers but you reduce the damping distance you shocks can do. What's the reason why Kyosho made an SP2 777 with longer shock absorbers? to have more damping distance isn't it?

What i want to hear is criticism from those who have tried it and had a bad experience about it. so please if you don't appreciate the idea then don't do it.

SManMTB

To get more droop you adjust the droop screws on the arms (close to the chassie). Your is set up with no droop at all. The arms don't go below level.
You do not adjust stiffness with spacers. Only way to increase the spring rate is to get stiffer springs.

zaintlouis

I used the droop, droop is very essential to me coz it's also protecting my shock absorber so my shocks wouldn't extend to the fullest. becoz if it does it would blow my shock caps or make it lose thread specially if you have stiffer springs. Good thing you remind me, i checked my droops screw and they're all gone!!! lol. i got to replace them right away. good thing it didn't break my caps.

If you want to add just a little stiffness i use the spacers, if you want a greater spring rate ( if the big spacers is not advisable coz they tend to destroy the elasticity(not sure if that's the correct term for it) of the spring , you replace it with a whole hard spring , but your buggy becomes very bouncy and easily rollover. But with a combination of medium and hard or soft and hard, and so on and so forth (depends on your setup), you get a stiff stance plus a good damping performance. just please try it and you'll see the difference. But when you try , try it carefully. you got to have the right lenght for the auxillary spring ( the one above).

ShootPaint

I have done exactly what you are trying to do when in desprate times to get equipment up and running but the overall results where as I listed above. I have tried it and found that no matter how hard you work at it two springs stacked on top of each other simply dont preform as well as a single spring that is design for your application. I wish you the best with your project and hope you keep us informed as to how it works for you.

Good luck.

zaintlouis

What i hear is like a crying baby. the reason for your failure is you're an odd modder. what i want to hear are given data. lenght of auxillary spring, how it performs on jumps, corners, humps, rocky areas, how exactly it fails for you, or perhaps you didn't get the right set up for you. far better to hear or discuss how to make it work for you but you're different and VERY COMMON. SO THAT'S ENOUGH. SINCE I DON'T GET ANY APPRECIATION FROM ANYBODY AT ALL, I'M SHUTTING DOWN THIS THREAD. NOBODY GETS REACTION FROM ME AGAIN. SO I HOPE EVERYBODY IS HAPPY NOW. WISH YOU ALL THE BEST! I SUGGEST YOU START BUYING SHOOTPAINTS SHOCKS ABSORBER WHEN IT GOES OUT IN THE MARKET. OH BABY, HOW"S THAT?

Super_Dave

Remember how I said proline makes them for monster trucks? So how many monster trucks do you see with them on there at the race track... NONE. Proline makes some of the best products there are and have great recources for racing and development but they didn't get your system to work on a race track. Yes, those were for monster trucks but still its not a new idea and if top manufactures or other aftermarket companies don't have them yet then it means they give you no advantage over the stock configuration and the two springs only make things more complicated.

Of course its still worth a try, however, I don't think someone who has aluminum arms on a "race" buggy would have a right to call someone an idiot because they couldn't get that two spring design to work.

TGreg

you are wrong, i had them, they worked great, almost handled as well as a revo.
and again its different for mosters, they are heavier alowing that to work. for this app, i would recommend either just sticking with standered coils, or get the pre made progressive.

ShootPaint

So once again I leave you with a good luck in your trials and hope to see you inform us on how things are going. If you choose not to inform us that is your decision.

TGreg

ewww shootpaint PWN'D your @55 H0l3!!!


l33t-haxx0r lmao kekeke ^__^

mattnin

Two springs in series is a common setup in full scale race cars. This would give a similar result in an R/C car. It is the only system that allows for two seperate spring rates to be used with one shock.