|
Car set up tips.
I am about to start racing my 1/8th (my first buggy). I am not new to nitro but am new to buggies. I keep reading about people setting up their cars to get rid of some characteristic to make the cars faster. I would like to know how to set up my car to be faster but don't know where to begin!! I know there can is a fair bit to setting up a car so a link to a website with advise would be good.
I found this site http://users.pandora.be/elvo/ Which is helpful but does not really tell me what to do if for example my car is understeering at high speed. I am sure there are a bunch of people out there looking for this kind of info so any help would be good. |
RE: Car set up tips.
This site you have linked is the best I've seen, it does tell you what you should do under the various conditions (or at least, it describes what can give your car 'more' steering, etc.), but it's buried in the information. Take time to read carefully, and understand every physical concept, you'll soon be an expert yourself.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
that is a good site, its not 100% right in all situations though (there are always exceptions to the rules). The first thing you have to be able to do is run consistent laps so you can feel the changes you've made in all parts of the track (not just the part 'causing you grief), then use that site as a guide and change things one at a time letting you get used to the effect the changes have.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
I can run pretty consistent laps with my buggy. It was understeering a fair bit and I changed the diff oils under the advice of people on RCU. It did make a difference. I was not sure how to classify my track but after seeing some pics of other peoples tracks I would say it is bumpy, probably one of the bumpier tracks I have seen. I would like my car to handle the jumps and bumps better. I guess I'll just read the web sites again and experiment with a few things.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
ORIGINAL: JJJEEEFFFFFF that is a good site, its not 100% right in all situations though (there are always exceptions to the rules). |
RE: Car set up tips.
The one very important variable determining what set up works best for you is "Driving style"
every driver is different and have different things they like and dislike. I had Mike Weed (mugen sponsered guy) set up my 10th scale, He drives the heck out of the MST-1, His set up was terrible for me. I couldn't control it, I went back to Chad's base set up which more suits me. Just because something works for you ie "suits your style" doesn't mean I'll like the way it feels, and visa versa Sites like that are great guidelines to be able to tweek a car to match your personal style. Those tips let you know what changes will do to you car, the more you experiment the better. |
RE: Car set up tips.
Very important and well said. Because I used to race on road, I don't do a whole lot of sliding, I try to keep the car 'on the rails', I know it's not best suited to off road racing as a style, and I'm sure I'll slowly change my technique. Anyway, my point is that to get my car to feel 'right for me', I ram the front diff with heavy fluid and the front shocks with soft oil, to get more pull out of the corners, like an on road car. Of course, this leads to a bit of instability entering the corner on the brakes, its all about balance, I still have a lot to learn about buggy setup and racing techniques, and that site is most helpful for a recap when I need it.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
but there are no exceptions to the laws of physics I have'nt read through the latest version of that site, but i think it says in there that it doesn't apply to all conditions. if i get some time later i'll go through it a bit more and try to explain it a bit better. [8D] |
RE: Car set up tips.
The most important thing you need to do before you start making adjustments is make a base. After you find a good base feel what you don't like and just try something that seems like it would fix it... if it doesn't than put the adustment back to base and try something else or maybe just going in the opposite direction of the same adjustment (of course get your ideas on what to change by asking on here or looking on that site posted before). You can ask around for a good base setup on here I'm sure someone will have one.
Driving style is extremly important. You need to feel comfortable with the buggy you drive. I personally like it being very loose with lots of steering but theres a few people at the local track who just can't drive it unless the buggy is setup tight and under steers. Just experiment with things even study how it works on your work bench one night and it will really help you learn exactly how the buggy will react to certain adjustments... experience is the only real way to learn how to setup a buggy to fit you personally. What buggy are you driving? Also when you give track conditions we need type of dirt (clay/sand/top soil/grass), is it loose or packed (and how loose or packed it is). Bumps and jumps is only a small part of track conditions and its one of the least to worry about because you can only do so much with how the buggy handles it. If you have a very bumpy track through you normally want a fairly light shock oil... something like 40 front and 35 rear and a medium/soft spring. Heavier springs and shock oil will make the buggy more stable on smooth tracks but on rough tracks they make the buggy more unstable... and its the opposite for light springs and oil (unstable on smooth track and more stable on rough tracks). Oh yeah and here is the order of importance in your setup... 1st of course the thing that will make the biggest difference when changed and the last being the least difference in handling when changed. This will help because if its only a minor adjustment its not something you would change diff oil to fix and it just seemed to be a good order to go in when you setup your buggy (when you first setup your buggy that is... like diff oil can usually be left after you set it where you want it)... it worked well for me. 1- Tires 2- Diff oil 3- Alignment... Camber, Caster, and Toe. If you have your toe adjustments off the buggy will wonder all over the place and if the camber is off you wont have a good tire contact giving you no grip and faster tire wear on the side that is contacting the ground. Also caster will make a fairly large difference in how aggressive the buggy handles. 4- Shock oil/springs 5- Shock position 6- Sway bar/anti-squat 7- Roll center 8- Wing... Yes if your going 25+ mph you can feel the wing start to take a small effect and the faster you go the bigger the effect is. You do have the ride hight adjustment too with the set screw on the suspension arms... but you don't really want to lower the ride hight anymore unless you're on a really smooth track. If you are going to use the adjustment it will make a big differece... I would put it after shock oil/springs. |
RE: Car set up tips.
ORIGINAL: JJJEEEFFFFFF but there are no exceptions to the laws of physics I have'nt read through the latest version of that site, but i think it says in there that it doesn't apply to all conditions. if i get some time later i'll go through it a bit more and try to explain it a bit better. [8D] |
RE: Car set up tips.
ORIGINAL: Little Stampy The most important thing you need to do before you start making adjustments is make a base. After you find a good base feel what you don't like and just try something that seems like it would fix it... if it doesn't than put the adustment back to base and try something else or maybe just going in the opposite direction of the same adjustment (of course get your ideas on what to change by asking on here or looking on that site posted before). You can ask around for a good base setup on here I'm sure someone will have one. Driving style is extremly important. You need to feel comfortable with the buggy you drive. I personally like it being very loose with lots of steering but theres a few people at the local track who just can't drive it unless the buggy is setup tight and under steers. Just experiment with things even study how it works on your work bench one night and it will really help you learn exactly how the buggy will react to certain adjustments... experience is the only real way to learn how to setup a buggy to fit you personally. What buggy are you driving? Also when you give track conditions we need type of dirt (clay/sand/top soil/grass), is it loose or packed (and how loose or packed it is). Bumps and jumps is only a small part of track conditions and its one of the least to worry about because you can only do so much with how the buggy handles it. If you have a very bumpy track through you normally want a fairly light shock oil... something like 40 front and 35 rear and a medium/soft spring. Heavier springs and shock oil will make the buggy more stable on smooth tracks but on rough tracks they make the buggy more unstable... and its the opposite for light springs and oil (unstable on smooth track and more stable on rough tracks). Oh yeah and here is the order of importance in your setup... 1st of course the thing that will make the biggest difference when changed and the last being the least difference in handling when changed. This will help because if its only a minor adjustment its not something you would change diff oil to fix and it just seemed to be a good order to go in when you setup your buggy (when you first setup your buggy that is... like diff oil can usually be left after you set it where you want it)... it worked well for me. 1- Tires 2- Diff oil 3- Alignment... Camber, Caster, and Toe. If you have your toe adjustments off the buggy will wonder all over the place and if the camber is off you wont have a good tire contact giving you no grip and faster tire wear on the side that is contacting the ground. Also caster will make a fairly large difference in how aggressive the buggy handles. 4- Shock oil/springs 5- Shock position 6- Sway bar/anti-squat 7- Roll center 8- Wing... Yes if your going 25+ mph you can feel the wing start to take a small effect and the faster you go the bigger the effect is. You do have the ride hight adjustment too with the set screw on the suspension arms... but you don't really want to lower the ride hight anymore unless you're on a really smooth track. If you are going to use the adjustment it will make a big differece... I would put it after shock oil/springs. At the moment I am running a Rex-X (cheap RTR buggy I know). I bought this as a test to see if I would like buggies. As it turns out I am having a lot of fun and would like to try my hand at racing. I have changed a couple of things on my buggy. Firstly I ditched the pull start for a starter box, I changed the diff oil to 5K,7K,1K under the advise of people on RC (helped quite a bit) and have changed the shock oil to mugen 400 oil. This did not actually change much, maybe slightly stiffer but at least now I know my starting point. I also changed the shock towers to the pro spec versions. I have tried Pro line knuckle tires but on my track I found the standard ones to be better. Apart from that all settings are factory. I would describe my track as bumpy with a top soil surface. The track has not been run for a while and has just been rebuilt to start racing again, hence the bumpyness. If I feel I am doing well I plan on buying a 777SP2 but I want to make sure I know more about setup and driving before throwing a lot of money at a buggy. |
RE: Car set up tips.
I'm glad I could help.
Knuckles are pretty much straight blue groove tires... so hard packed that rubber actually gets layed down ontop of it. For topsoil you want a little more of an aggressive tread. Something where the tread is fairly space apart and a little deep so the tread grabs the ground more. Crime fighters are a pretty good tire but they wear out quick. Badlands are an awesome tire that will last a long time but you might get to much side bite and traction role... also the mug shots are a good tire for top soil and they wont give you to much side bite but if you get into more hardpack clay they get a little loose. Multi spike is another good one... Just look at the tread and it will tell you what they are made for. Close tread with wide flat topped knobs are good for very hard packed conditions because they give you a lot of tire contacting the hard surface... but if you get into loose dirt the tire will float ontop of the surface instead of digging in (like the knuckles). A deep and spaced out tread will let dirt pack in between each knob which lets it dig in and get the traciton on loose dirt (like the multi spike and badland tires). The SP2 is an awesome buggy if you like lots of steering... the SP1 had more steering but the SP2 is still extremly aggressive and you need to pay attention when you drive it. With all of the MP777s the harder you drive them the better they handle too. I race the normal MP777 and I love it... over my old hyper 7 I cut off over a second from my laps times with the stock settings and as I changed things acordingly the buggy is letting me drive it faster and faster each weekend. It will bite back at you if you aren't focused though because the rear end swings around pretty quick. |
RE: Car set up tips.
That is a very interesting site linked to in the first post. I'm interested in learning more about driving style. That site gives the basics about different ways to take turns, but are there any sites with more detailed information? Or is that the kind of thing you can only learn from practice? I want to learn more racing "theory" I guess you could call it.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
It's the most detailed I've ever seen, practise makes perfect...;)
|
RE: Car set up tips.
No need, i see what you mean and I still say they are variables, rather than exceptions. Anyway, I see what you meant, no need to go through the symantics. Also, that site is a bit more geared toward on-road cars anyway, and some of it doesn't apply to buggies. I know i should choose my words better, but its kind of hard to type exactly what you mean when you should be working and your boss is always hanging around. lol :D just a quick thing, running on hard packed blue grooved clay (if you stay on line) is simmilar to running on road when it comes to suspenion setup. [8D] |
RE: Car set up tips.
I ran my car yesterday on the same track and things were very different. The first time I ran it the track was muddy, this time it was dry and very hard (still bumpy though). I would have liked to try my knuckle tires but did not have them with me. I foudn a few things though. I believe the rear shocks need lighter oil as the back jumps around a bit in the rough stuff. I looked at my tires after the run and noticed the insides were wearing more than the outsides. I borrowed a camber gauge and found my back tires had 2 on one side and 3 on the other (negative) and the fronts had 2 1/2 on one side and 4 1/2 on the other [X(]. I have since set them all to 2. My car also seams to be very tail happy under power I was thinking of changing the diff oil (5K,7K,1K at the moment) but am not sure. Any suggestions?
|
RE: Car set up tips.
ORIGINAL: GRANT ED . . . I believe the rear shocks need lighter oil as the back jumps around a bit in the rough stuff. . . ORIGINAL: GRANT ED My car also seams to be very tail happy under power I was thinking of changing the diff oil (5K,7K,1K at the moment) but am not sure. Any suggestions? EDIT: Look to the opposite end of the car first to correct the problem. Car setup is a game of weight transfer. If your rear end is loose, try tightening up the front end. If the rear end acts too stiff, try correcting by stiffening the front. I don't know if they make thinner diff oil than 1k, so you may have to look for other alternatives to solve your on power acceleration issues, including perhaps different tire selection. Fewer/taller knobs for soft loose soil, more/smaller knobs for firm packed soil. |
RE: Car set up tips.
Don't forget roll centers. Move your inner tie rods up to raise roll center and vise versa. If you are having a loose rear end, try raising your front roll center to correct. Don't forget to re-adjust camber after moving the tie rods.
|
RE: Car set up tips.
2 degrees of negative camber on the rear is a bit much unless your hitting berms in every corner. 1 degree to .5 degrees will give you a better contact patch especially in a straight line. Also check your roll center... when you accelerate the rear suspension compresses you could have to much negative camber roll giving you less tire contact with the ground.
1k in the diffs can actually make a car looser. Sense your running 1k in the rear already I sujest going to 3k. I don't know how the rex-x handles but if it feels like the rear end is just swinging in the wind than its to light. If you feel both rear tires are breaking loose of traction because of to much power than lighten the rear diff oil.... you could make the center diff lighter too and you'll get more power to the front tires. I have made quite a few posts a while ago with how the diffs work... I guess I'll go find them and post them. |
RE: Car set up tips.
This is getting repeative I've posted this pleanty of times before :). Theorectically this is how your diffs will respond to different oils.
Front- thicker gives you less steering responce off throttle and better on throttle "posi" traction pull out of corners because of the even power to both wheels... lighter oil gives lots of off throttle steering responce because there isn't a lot of resistance to how fast each wheel spins but less front wheel bite out of the corners because the power gets thrown to the wheel with the least traction. Center- thicker gives more 4wd which can give you some under steer on a high traction track because the power to the rear is pushing the front tires (thicker oil will make the rear loose on low traction tracks) but great drive with all 4 wheels accelerating the buggy hard... thinner oil will give you a lot of power to the front wheels so it pulls the buggy around on the throttle giving you good on throttle steering but lacks a little acceleration because mainly the front tires are pulling instead of all 4 digging. Rear- thicker will give you understeer off the throttle because of the resistance between each wheel spinning to the other but if you do break rear traction both tires will be getting a lot of power making the rear of the buggy loose, thick oil can make handling a little inconsistant because of that... thinner oil will give you quick steering because of the low resistance of how each rear wheel spins and it will give you a hard time to break both tires loose because all of the power goes to the tire with the least traction which is the inside tire. To light of an oil can make the rear of a buggy feel loose everywhere though. |
RE: Car set up tips.
Thanks for all the advise guys. I have slightly lightened up the oil in the rear shocks. I compared them to my friends Mugen MBX-5. It seams my shocks have bigger holes in the pistons than his. With the same oil mine were noticably easier to move quickly. I have ordered a few different springs to try but they have not arrived yet so I guess lighter shock oil is the best fix for now for the bouncy rear end. I'll try the knuckle tires next time out too. I have also reset the camber to 2 degrees fron and 1 degree rear. My first race is this sunday and I wont get to try anything else before then. I'll race the car with these settings and report the results.
Wish me luck [8D] |
RE: Car set up tips.
HEY GRANT ED I HAVE THE HYPER ALL SETUP FOR THIS SUNDAY.
THE TRACK IS PRETTY RUTTED, BUT I HAVE SET THE HYPER UP SO IT IS GOING A ROUND AT A DECENT SPEED THIS WEEK I WILL PUT SOME OIL IN THE DIFFS 5K 7K 1K THIS SHOULD WORK WELL ARE YA READY FOR A BUT WOOPIN CAPTIN LOL!!!!!!!! |
RE: Car set up tips.
Welcome to RCU HYPER7PRO!
Just a heads up. Typing in all capitols is generally used to convey shouting around here, and pretty much everywhere on the internet. Plus it's harder to read. Just thought i'd let you know. |
RE: Car set up tips.
Bring
ORIGINAL: HYPER7PRO! HEY GRANT ED I HAVE THE HYPER ALL SETUP FOR THIS SUNDAY. THE TRACK IS PRETTY RUTTED, BUT I HAVE SET THE HYPER UP SO IT IS GOING A ROUND AT A DECENT SPEED THIS WEEK I WILL PUT SOME OIL IN THE DIFFS 5K 7K 1K THIS SHOULD WORK WELL ARE YA READY FOR A BUT WOOPIN CAPTIN LOL!!!!!!!! |
RE: Car set up tips.
hi all
thanks for the heads up gerwen next time i will write in lower case. i have a question what is the norm for the toe in and out on 1/8 scale buggies im not sure what i should set mine to as a base setup? and what fuel are you running grant? thanks in advance oh and im bringing it grant the question is are you |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:32 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.