OK, this is a first for me and it has me totally baffled, not to mention that frustrated [:@] is a major understatement.[>:]

I've been trying to get my new MDS .18 running and broken in.[8D]

I turn on the radio so I can control the throttle, it works just fine.[8D]

I go to put the glo ignter on ( powered by a power panel) and the servos start to twitch like its got a major case of the jitters. Then it stops. The radio is dead. Won't work at all.[X(]

Replaced the batteries, nothing.[]

Replaced the crystals, works for a short time, until I connect the glo igniter, twitches like crazy, then again the radio doesn't work.[]

Replaced the switch. Works, then the same thing again.[>:]

Observations............

Just moving the power cord of the glo igniter clip close to the engine and radio compartment causes the radio to jitter like crazy.

Attaching the glo igniter to the glo plug produces a high pitch whine from the glo plug ( at 1amp), as well s knocking out the radio.

Reducing the amperage to the glo plug reduces the frequency of the whine, but does not stop it unless the amps are turned all the way down to zero. (can't start an engine that way).

Tried two other glo igniter clips and the same whine is produced as well as the radio jitter when bringing the glo igniter close to the engine and radio compartment.

Tried two other brands of plugs with the same results.

The radio is a JR, AM on 75 mhz. Have never had ANY problems withit before. Less than a year old.

I have no clue to what is causing this

I'm gonna try things again, to at least get the radio to work again. Before I even think of putting a glo plug clip into the power panel again, I'll wait for some suggestions........

Pro27-- I don't see anywhere in your post that you tried the independent glo plug liter. That should rule your power panel in or out. Other than that------doh!
Gordy

Good advice Playtime....
I've never heard of this happening. You could call the radio mfg. and ask them.
Have you tried posting this in the radio and servo section of this site?
Good luck!!!!!

Any dampness inside the RX? Make sure its good and dry. The servos jumping is a norm. its the metal to metal rubbing making it jump all crazy. How close is the antenna on the rx to the engine? the closer it is the more it interfers. Also make sure that there is not any dampness inside the servos, this will make the radio to have seemed to die, after it jumps around for a little while. If this is a brand new radio setup or even an old, a bad soilder connection will also do this. Any corrosion at the connections? Also check that your linkage is not rubbing any metal to metal(this may not cause it to die but it will keep it jumping). It does not matter if your glowbee is connect to a power panel or not, but you can try a different set up. Corrosion, dampness and bad conections are the most popular reasons for this to happen.

That is really weird. Is this a new power panel??? A thought would be that the power panel is creating some kind of radio interference, but even if it was the radio should function after the panel is depowered. The whining I cannot explain, electric whine, ie high pitched tone, happens with high voltages, a lot higher than 1.5v or 12v, this happens at like 10,000v. Another thing that doesn't make sense is that the current going to the plug is DC, meaning that there should be no voltage oscillations. So even if your glow plug wire crossed the receiver antenna it shouldn't make the servos jitter back and forth, this is a sign of oscillating interference. In car audio, the power cable that goes to the amp, is kept as far away as the signal cable because the alternater generates "whine" proportional to the engine speed that the signal cable can pick up and amplify. But since you are running from a battery, and not an alternator, or a switched power source i'm assuming, then there should be no oscillating interference what so ever coming from the ignitor, unless your electronics in the panel have gone haywire. What is really odd about this is that you say the radio jitters like crazy without the plug even attached to the ignitor, without the plug attached no current will flow, if there is no current then there is no electromagnetic interference being created by the wire to the ignitor. Try opening up your RX and servos and let them sit open on a towel for a day or two, this will eliminate them in the problem, it's possible there is corrosion, check this, unlikely a bad solder job, but check this as well, make sure your crystals are in tight!!!!. Once i brought my boat in for a fuel up, i can fuel mine while letting the engines run, and put it up on the table and put the TX next to it, i guess the vibration made the TX crystal come out, wow, the engines went nuts on me and the rudders were all over the place, at first i thought this might happen if the batteries were dying, this was after about an hour of running, but then i saw the crystal on the table, popped her back in and all was good. So you might have some corrosion at the connection to the TX or RX crystal. I now have a piece of electrical tape over my RX to hold the crystal tight for sure and duct tape on the TX. Goodluck

Thanks for the input so far........ I was able to think alot about my problem today As I had some kids on a field trip, so not much else to do.

I do beleive it is some RF interfierence from the power cord for the glo igniter. I thought through how my other hulls are set up, in relation to motor placement and radio placement. All my hulls are set up with the radio gear in front of and away from the engine. My monokote project hull has the gear placed JUST in front of the engine, and I do get some jittering when the igniter is attached, but not major and livable to get the engine startted.

However, on this hull, the entire radio gear is positioned UNDER the engine pod.

I also race 1/10 scale touring cars and know a lot of major as well as minor causes of RF interfeience. Battery wires being too close to the antenna OR the RX crystal is a big one people don't think about. What has been proven to work, believe it or not, is to wrap the RX in aluminum foil. This acts to shield the RX from the RF. Something I'll have to try before I have to tear the hull apart and built a new radio compartment.

There is some jittering of the servos which I credit to the proximity of all the moving parts and such. But once I connect the glo plug, I think the RF from the power cord of the igniter, somehow blocks all signal. What is weird, is that just disconnecting the igniter does nothing to restore the radio control. I have to either remove the crystal and re-insert it, or unplug the switch from the RX and plug it back in for the radio to work again.

Believe me when I say this is a pain to accomplish dur to the locatio of the radio gear and what all has to be removed in order to get to it. (bad planning on my part)

I'will take the recommendation and place a post to the radio service forum and see what those guys have to say.

Pro ,
Got the SAME problem with my MDS motor .... it seems that the glw plug ignitor is NOT making a solid connection and when you flip , or electric start the motor , this causes just enough to create RF intereference .
What I do , is .... I set the carbs throttle to the postion I want , then turn OFF the RX for the boat , but leave the Tx on .... then , after she fires up , and I remove the glow ignitor , I then flip the on/off switch to on and all is fine .[8D]

On the off chance there is a problem with the RX, I'm switching out the RX.

I'll give your idea a try though Terbo. I was thinking that I did try that, but the system wasn't working at the time anyways. dah...

I have two other MDS engines, another .18 and a .40 that this does not happen with. But it does jitter on the AP .09, but the radio continues to work. When I remove the igniter, the jittering stops and all is OK with the world. (BTY...that little AP is a sweet engine).

Again, I think it is the close proximity of the radio RX to the engine that is a main factor. Too much mechanical RF. ???

Even if a glow igniter works with DC curent, if there is a loose conection or wire, there might be some sparking at that point...now a spark covers the entire rf spectrum, wich might cause your radio trouble...maybe you guys never heard of it, but a spark plug installed in front of your car, and connected to the engine is the best rf radar jammer there is...

The only other thing I can think of is a bad ground in your radio system...recheck your connections between rx and battery.

hey pro. I know there is no sine wave in a dc signal, but you have to remember that those power panels change the voltage/current (however u view it..) going to the glow plug by means of "frequency modulation". Meaning that the smooth dc signal is broken up into short or long, fast or slow pulses to either increase or decrease the amount of power fed. That is what the whine is. Not from hi voltage as was suggested, but from all sortss of funny frequencies inside the panel as it modulates the dc pulse. The keyword here is obviously frequency and i know that AM TX/RX are a bit more sensitive to this interferance. What you said before about the foil is a great idea but maybe think about screening the actual glow plug lead with it??? I have some EMF screened cable here from work which is just that. Some cable with a foil or braided wire screen around it. But Australia is a long way from the US so maybe the foil will work fine. There should be no real interferance from the actual motor once the glow ignitor is disconnected because there is nothing in it to generrate an EMF (electro magnetic field). The plug is hot from the igniting fuel, not any electricity so we can rule that out. Try the foil thing or maybe chaging the crystal u are using. It may just be at a very similar frequency to the glow ignitor. I hope this is helpful or at least informative.
rev.

Hey everyone...PROBLEM SOLVED

But before I go into what I found and how I fixed it, I feel it necessary to acknowledge that some of you guys REALLY DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between a butthole and a hole in the ground.


It pays to save the boxes that the products come in...... I quote from the feature description...

"State-of-the-art IC-controlled variable pulse power supply for the glow plug"

......as Rev stated above[8D]

Question for you Rev...... (since you seem to be electronicaly inclined) Instead of going out and getting a new panel, is there a way to sheild the current panel ? Redirect the RF so to speak away from the hull. For a pic of my setup, find my thread of my boat starting stand.

I changed crystal frequencies twice with no change. BUT, this is still not ruled out as potentially the problem, at least not directly.

Don't you guys love a tease???

I'm sure I can find that here somewhere. I will try it to see if it cuts down the 'slight' and infrequent jitters I still get.

Hey.....another factor........[8D]

As I attached the igniter clip to the glow plug, it would spark. you can see it and hear it crackle.[X(]
If it was wiggled, it would do the same, same as if the engine were being started. Tried another igniter clip and though it still sparked and crackled if you wiggled it, not even close as the other one. Caused much less problem and concern.

You're so hot on this one, your feet should be melting.......

Here's a hint. It's not the second part of your statement.

After a phone call to the Tech guys who service the JR radios, I was asked to send them the RX for replacement.



After a lengthy (and probably costly) phone call (weekday and daytime rates apply) it was determined that the probable cause is a bad solder joint to the crystal holder inside the RX. This came after MANY questions and scenerios were tossed around. I have to give credit to these guys. They left no stone unturned.

Kudos go out to JR support.

While on the phone, I installed a different RX, but with the same crystals as the previous RX.
It worked
They had me hook up the glow plug and everything, like I was preparing to start it, and , except for some very minor jitters, it worked. Did'nt go crazy on my or shut down.

The determination and explanation of the problem came down to the Strange RF from the glo igniter affecting the loose or cracked crystal holder. It would still seem to work, but with lots of jitters with only the radio on. Add into the scenerio the RF from the igniter, and it would be enough to create an open circuit, shutting down the RX ability to work.

I don't know if I am making any sense, but it all sounded very convincing to me.
Anyways......
The RX will be replaced FOC

I feel it in my bones, it was the RX due to the one I replaced it with worked wiithout problems.

As a preventative measure, I'm still going to shield the igniter's wires, and if possible, try to sheild the power panel itself, or at a last resort, get a new one. (Even though it still works, but maybe not as well as it should)

If you want to use some shielded cable for the glow plug wire, you can use either coaxial cable for tv's or shielded A/V cable. This cable has one of the conducting wires wrapped around the inner one to cancel out any EMF. It sounds like your panel is the cause of the problem, as well as maybe the RX. If your panel uses pulse frequency modulation than it is sending a DC voltage at adjustable intervals to "create" the desired voltage. this would for sure create pulsed EMF's instead of a constant one, which would mimick an AC current. The whine i was referring to with high voltages is that buzz that you hear on things like neon lights, and crappy computer monitors. The sparking shouldn't cause a continued radio jitter but a momentary one. Anyways, hopefully this all gets fixed, I am surprised that if the manufacturer of the panel is using IC controlled PMF that they don't use a shielded cable as well. Goodluck!

Happy to hear the good news, Pro!

Have fun!

It's been a great day today........

With all the problems I've had getting this thing to run, I was aprehensive taking it out and get some time on the new engine.

Just wanted to let ya'l know I had no problems with it. The glitching is gone and I can start it up with the radio off as well as on. Changing out the RX solved the problem. Now I just have to send out the other RX to Horizon for the replacement.

I didn't have time to get some sheilded cable fot the igniter cord, instead, I split the wires (2-conductor, lamp cord style) and twisted them together with each other. No more buzz. It's a little trick I learned from racing electric touring cars. Twist the wires from the battery to cancel out any emf/rf or whatever you want to call it, to prevent glitches. I figured if it worked for that, I'd try it on the igniter clip. Seems to have worked.

Was able to run two more tanks for break-in on the new .18 with full throttle control.[8D]

All right I love to hear when some one has a real good day.

Excellent to hear Pro! Seems that everyone in this forum has something helpful to add and it all combines to make for a solution.

Just goes to show that regardless of experience, we can all do with some help now and then

I'll always be at the front of the line either way