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Help!

Old 02-19-2020, 07:09 PM
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truthdweller
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Hello! I'm an older guy/newb that is converting my BRUSHED Neraus 36lb thrust,12V DC 60A 350W, non-hall, marine trolling motor to RC.

I've currently a Maytech Remote Controller for Electric Skateboard Mountainboard Hand Remote MTSKR1905WF but, so far, am unable to source a compatible BRUSHED PWM ESC. I'd prefer to stay away from those ESC's that require an additional water pump for cooling and use a waterproof ESC. I'd post URL's and photos but, until I have (10) posts, the site won't let me. Because of the current dilemma in China, I'm reaching out here. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please ask questions if you need more information.
Old 02-26-2020, 02:11 AM
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https://www.mtroniks.net/prod/Boat-S..._Marine_75.htm
No as cheap as ESCs from the far east, but the numbers mean what they say.
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Old 09-05-2021, 03:56 AM
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Richard Ashford
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The best remote controls come with handy designs and textures. Pick the one you feel comfortable holding, especially when in transit. A lanyard will also be of great help once the remote falls off your hand.
You might as well have pricing and brand preferences, but be sure they work with your skateboards.
Old 09-05-2021, 08:27 PM
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truthdweller
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Thanks for the reply Richard...although Ive since purchased an ESC, please note the OP:

"Hello! I'm an older guy/newb that is converting my BRUSHED Neraus 36lb thrust,12V DC 60A 350W, non-hall, marine trolling motor to RC.

I've currently a Maytech Remote Controller for Electric Skateboard surfboard Hand Remote MTSKR1905WF but, so far, am unable to source a compatible BRUSHED PWM ESC. I'd prefer to stay away from those ESC's that require an additional water pump for cooling and use a waterproof ESC. I'd post URL's and photos but, until I have (10) posts, the site won't let me. Because of the current dilemma in China, I'm reaching out here. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please ask questions if you need more information."

Last edited by truthdweller; 09-05-2021 at 08:51 PM.
Old 09-05-2021, 08:47 PM
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truthdweller
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As well, I'm splicing the 12 AWG ESC wires into the 6 AWG trolling motor wires by soldering 6 AWG connectors onto each. I've already done this (3) times but, the ESC eventually fails. I've tried up to 320A ESCs so, I'm suspecting I'm overloading the 12g wires. Can anyone give me some professional advice?
Old 09-06-2021, 12:05 AM
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mfr02
 
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320A ESCs are total hocus pocus and totally incapable of anything like that.. They are best totally ignored.
ESCs fail because they are either trying to pass more current that they were designed for, or being given too many volts. An ESC that says "max 8.4 volts" means just that. Give it 12, it will soon fail.
All electronic devices are rated for a given temperature, usually 25C. As they pass current they generate heat. If they generate it faster than they can get rid of it, they overheat and die.
When choosing an ESC, best practice is first, find out how much current the motor takes under load. Then double that number, then pick the ESC in the range next highest value. And ignore the 320A ones.
The thinnest wire in any circuit is effectively the fuse. If it is embedded into a potted ESC, the ESC becomes a disposable fuse. Other than the wire, being loaded beyond its rating and getting hot enough to pass extra unwanted heat into the ESC, the thickness is not a consideration in blowing ESCs.
The 350W on 12 volts says 30A, but a motor efficiency of 50% will bump that up to 60A. So, applying the earlier derating to allow for load and temperature variations, starting at 120A would be a good idea. And if the wires coming out of the ESC don't look like they could carry that, they probably can't. Especially true if the artwork and advertising says "320A".
In practice, anybody running that level of current in a boat if likely to be using a very fast one. As a result, they are likely to be using brushless motors and several series cells of LiPo, and the market for high current brushed ESCs has reduced itself.
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Old 09-07-2021, 01:37 PM
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Nice! I've purchased a 880 Quickrun BRUSHED 80a ESC, for dual motors. Can I combine the motor wires x (4), into (2) and get more heat protection this way? Being that I haven't done a load amp draw out on the water, I found a video where a similar trolling motor draws 30a under high speed; 30a x 2 = 60a, thus an 80a ESC. Will this work? Also, I concerned about the 16g ESC battery wires, do these overheat? Btw, there is a 50a breaker inline the 6awg battery cables
Old 09-08-2021, 02:06 AM
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Get the wiring right, and if everything stays in sync it could work, but might just result in a release of magic smoke. I suspect this is the most likely outcome (just my opinion as a result of gut feeling). PWM controls work by switching on and off. If the two parts are totally in step into a common load, fine. If not, both are trying to power the full load as individuals, plus, they are trying to feed power into the other power output. This rarely ends well. Since I have no idea what is inside the sealed box, thats just guesswork.
A fairly useful gauge/current chart here - https://jascoautomotive.com/automoti...apacity-chart/
While it stops at 30A for 16AWG, you will note that the shorter the run, the more current will be carryable. What it doesn't mention is that silicon based insulation can survive higher temperatures than lesser materials, thus the same gauge can carry higher current.
In the distant past, when ESCs were exotic and expensive, I created my own using servo electronics, replacing the tiny motor with a pair of optical isolators that drove higher voltage and much higher current transistors to get a much higher power EC than was otherwise available. The only limit to the power available then was the transistors available. This is still true, but transistors have improved greatly - there are probably some that would work for you, but instead of butchering a servo, there are very cheap 10A (and no, I don't trust that number, either) ESCs that could drive such an output stage in a much more civilised manner.
Old 09-08-2021, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mfr02 View Post
Get the wiring right, and if everything stays in sync it could work, but might just result in a release of magic smoke.
This made me smile...I'm getting quite familiar with this special effect! Since I'm still a newb on this site, I can only direct you to watch my last "magic smoke" performance on my YouTube channel, search BASSdelight - "Fire In The Hold!"
Old 09-08-2021, 04:52 PM
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I'm confused on this one. Why not just use the speed control on the motor since it's right in front of you if you're trying to do this in the SOT kayak you showed in that video. Or, for that matter, IIRC, there are speed controls made for this purpose that use a foot pedal. Either way would work more reliably than what you're trying to do with the R/C gear
Old 09-08-2021, 06:34 PM
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truthdweller
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Y
Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I'm confused on this one. Why not just use the speed control on the motor since it's right in front of you if you're trying to do this in the SOT kayak you showed in that video. Or, for that matter, IIRC, there are speed controls made for this purpose that use a foot pedal. Either way would work more reliably than what you're trying to do with the R/C gear
Yep, good questions...

When I became a first time kayak owner of this TANK, I quickly succombed to the DIY circles and PWM units were, and still are, the mod for brushed motors. In my research, I learned of the higher end RC brushless trolling motors w/built in PWM, and thought, "Wonder if I can do this?!" That was the catalyst to do something different, and to accomplish the PWM goal, which brushed motors are not.

As far as your other question as to why not use the controls on the motor well, I do, haha! No, there's more to it than that...

When solo (the majority of the time) I would use the forward pedal slot for the motor, and use pedals for the rear, to have both. Those pedal owners quickly realize the hands free blessing pedals are to maintain position, especially on windy days! When in this configuration, it's precarious to reach the motor. The RC is ideal for this, with steering done with the rudder in the rear. One draw back...I can't raise the motor, ugh! When I'm tandem, the forward seater can not only operate the motor with RC but manually steer the bow, this is HUGE, enabling the yak to be turned in 14' circles, and raise the motor as well! If he/she is busy, I can pull the tether back to me, and I can operate the motor. Remembering also when the motor is RC, it's fixed in 5th fwd speed, and can't be operated manually.

Did I consider all this prior to taking this on? I tried but no, I trialed and errored ALOT which, as you can see, is still in the trial stages. Pedal RC? Thought about it but, didnt seem practical. Pedal RCs are for higher end brushless motors that can rotate, fwd/reverse etc. Wish I had a Minn Kota motor w/ RC & spot-lock! Kayaks come with them now!

I hope this clears up a bit of your cofusion...it confused me too!

Last edited by truthdweller; 09-08-2021 at 06:38 PM.
Old 09-08-2021, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by truthdweller View Post



Yep, good questions...

When I became a first time kayak owner of this TANK, I quickly succombed to the DIY circles and PWM units were, and still are, the mod for brushed motors. In my research, I learned of the higher end RC brushless trolling motors w/built in PWM, and thought, "Wonder if I can do this?!" That was the catalyst to do something different, and to accomplish the PWM goal, which brushed motors are not.

As far as your other question as to why not use the controls on the motor well, I do, haha! No, there's more to it than that...

When solo (the majority of the time) I would use the forward pedal slot for the motor, and use pedals for the rear, to have both. Those pedal owners quickly realize the hands free blessing pedals are to maintain position, especially on windy days! When in this configuration, it's precarious to reach the motor. The RC is ideal for this, with steering done with the rudder in the rear. One draw back...I can't raise the motor, ugh! When I'm tandem, the forward seater can not only operate the motor with RC but manually steer the bow, this is HUGE, enabling the yak to be turned in 14' circles, and raise the motor as well! If he/she is busy, I can pull the tether back to me, and I can operate the motor. Remembering also when the motor is RC, it's fixed in 5th fwd speed, and can't be operated manually.

Did I consider all this prior to taking this on? I tried but no, I trialed and errored ALOT which, as you can see, is still in the trial stages. Pedal RC? Thought about it but, didnt seem practical. Pedal RCs are for higher end brushless motors that can rotate, fwd/reverse etc. Wish I had a Minn Kota motor w/ RC & spot-lock! Kayaks come with them now!

I hope this clears up a bit of your cofusion...it confused me too!

I have since lost my Pistol Grip RC , and decided to replace the in-line RC connectors for the ESC, with heavy duty 6 AWG battery connectors just so I can continue to use the trolling motor manually. And yes, I realize how simple it is to just turn the handle as needed. Although, no energy savings with PWM or, can't use the pedal drive simultaneously. It's give and take at the moment.

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