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Old 02-03-2013, 11:15 PM
  #6401  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howzit Curls !

An interesting subject.....One that 'matters' and is well worth discussing.

Let me start by saying this is only my 'MO' based of 'my experience over the past year.

Its been very interesting to me, that for many of us, 'much focus' has been placed on getting the board to run absolutely flat 'at speed, on flat water - BUT- to achieve this - just about all the ideal, much wanted surfing attributes of the boards design have been negated in the process, by the various changes i.e...no positive tail rocker - forward CG - wider tail - sharp tail rails....JIMI rocker etc......

I myself have tried most of the above concepts on my various boards and found that although the board does run flat on flat water at speed......it loses much of the ideal surf performance on a wave face........

The main point to always consider is that 'we ride waves' - not flat water ! so how we set the board up should be with the wave face in mind.

When ridding a wave face......the shape of the running surface if different ( radiused) and the plane is elevated ( vertical).......Due to this.....if your CG is to far forward.....the board will pearl (nose dive) easier when driving down the face, as in effect, the CG will be shifted even further forward, pressing the nose down. Added to that, if their is no positive tail rocker, or you have added width to the tail, sharp edges or JIMI rocker, the tail of the board will be lifted up easier and sooner, pressing the nose down further, intern initiating the dreaded pearl even 'sooner'........making one look like a grom........LOL

Many of the boards modified to 'run flat' still do ride the wave face well - but - more so when ridding parallel to the length of the wave face, as in barrel ridding , straight down the line etc. I did find though, when wanting to pull a few moves of the lip in the tighter hollower sections and come straighter down the face, that the board would often pearl quite easily
Added to that, the ridding aesthetics of the turn is also all important to me - I like the tail to drop in the turn, which is not possible with a modified lifting tail....or forward CG....hence many boards turn very boat like (upright and flat)

In my last two builds I have narrowed the tail for less surface area to reduce lift and started reintroducing positive rocker in the tail. a small amount in the previous board and a tad more in this build......At WOT ( wide open throttle) on flat water both the boards tend to skip over the water surface at speed - BUT - on the vertical wave face they certainly seem to perform better overall. Yesterday, in some healthy onshore conditions, I could see that the added tail rocker in my latest board helped me ride out of some vertical situations that I would have otherwise pearled.
Another difference I now apply to reduce the skip is, rather than have a very forward CG.....is to rather make the board heavier overall, maintaining a aft CG of 40% , so that it displaces more water... now when on the wave face, the CG will still be further back, reducing the risk of a pearl on the hollow.


It matters less how we look getting to the wave - what matters more is how we look on the wave.


Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !



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Old 02-04-2013, 12:07 AM
  #6402  
InDaTube
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Default RE: RC Surfer

YPC

On this topic.....

Again, board design is very important..... but how you surf your board is really key.
For instance, just like real surfing, pearling can be avoided by adjusting your trim to
raise the nose up when taking off on a steep wave.
I was having trouble pearling when coming back down the face after an off the lip or cut back.
MJ showed me that all I have to do is not give up on the cut back and not backoff the trigger during the turn.
Bingo, now I just stab the trigger when finishing the trick and boom..... the nose comes up, the tail carves in and I'm ready for the next S turn on the face. The instant punch of a 455 prop sure helps.

My Maui******** is 34" long x 10.75" wide, weighing 8.1 lbs RTS. Modest nose rocker. Pin Tail with very little "V" and tail rocker. The trailing edges are super sharp. This tail configuration carves, releases and holds the arch of a turn like crazy............ But only if I surf well !!!

InDaTube







Old 02-04-2013, 12:09 AM
  #6403  
surfkiwi
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Thanks for the advice. I have been going back through the forum to try and work out what everyone's setup is, taking special note of what Jimi has said. 

Here is the list of bits I am planning to order. Is all this going to work together? I am new to this RC stuff so would appreciate any feedback. 
I also couldn't find much info on the servo to get. I found one below, but not sure if this is suitable.

A compiled list of what to get for a stock NQD would be a great idea!

Cheers,

Mark

Hobby King GT-2 2.4Ghz 2Ch Tx & Rx
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=10608

3660SL 3180kv Brushless Inrunner
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25091__3660SL_3180kv_Brushless_Inrunner_WaterCoo led_.html

HobbyKing 90A Boat ESC 4A SBEC
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28223__HobbyKing_90A_Boat_ESC_4A_SBEC.html

Turnigy 6000mAh 2S2P 7.4v 25C hardcase pack
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19169

Hobby King Digital Servo 2.2kg / 12.5g / .11sec
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6314__Hobby_King_Digital_Servo_2_2kg_12_5g_11sec .html


Old 02-04-2013, 12:25 AM
  #6404  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Indatube...........absolutely..........if it was easy, everyone would be doing it right...also.... don't forget.......you have started with a great board.....with all the attributes...

MJ has a degree of positive rocker in his builds and the slight v toward each rail also introduces added positive rocker at the tail in nett effect. The board weighing 8 lbs RTS will have good displacement reducing the hop and skip across the water.

Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
Old 02-04-2013, 02:24 AM
  #6405  
bearcave
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Default RE: RC Surfer

surfkiwi

first major upgrade selection looks good motor batt combo nice..... batt at 29mm is 2mm too high for my nqd so justbe aware of hull/deck sealing issues if it seems a bit tight..... remember you have to fit all this stuff ie servo mount, motorcoupling, electrical connections etcetc but lookin good like how muchyouhavelearn't so quick from your research

YPC
Cast metal things....
Nothing wrong with a cast iron crankshaft in a street car but if more power is wanted via compression revs forced induction whatever first major expense is a billet steel machined down crankshaft to stop the engine exploding all the expensive bits out the crankcase when cast crank lets go.... they do cost maybe 20x the price of a cast one but..

Yawn.... YPC post 6247 regarding the thoughts on board shape sent off my anti-hibernation alarm.... as did the previous one on the nose rocker being helpful in self righting and... Yawn..... was thinkin that if you and the other guyscoments and thoughts on all weren't so interesting maybei could get some sleep...lol
Old 02-04-2013, 03:14 AM
  #6406  
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Default RE: RC Surfer

G'day Crew,
Long time no chin wag, i'm still following the thread, just reading and learning somewhat......no posting :-(
Well after mk1 comes mk2, and well here i am again (yep it sure is addictive with no known cure..lmao, isn't all modelling).....
Back to basix and the original plan 32" model with a shape i like (well for now at any rate, We'll sea, fingers crossed). No belt sander include this time round, good ol fashioned handwork only ..lmao (should keep it close to what's in my mind)
I'm after some sound advice, to cut a long story short......where to start sharpening the rails?, how much V and when to taper off too less/none so to speak? The Pod size and location/reasoning? Rocker etc?
Not after trade secrets just honest truths/opinions/ basic formulas etc
As for running gear it's a turnigy 3665-b-2300kv on 4s (nano tech 5000 mah 35-70c), i have no prop or shaft as yet so open to all sugestions/opinions there also
Cheers Nig
A few happy snaps for your viewing pleasure, (i know i love pix)
Not sure how/order it all up loaded but.....
Rough shape etc of board......with ol mate........in a few...... (He was getting rather impatiant on dry land and just couldn't stay away from the shaping room, to say the least after so long out of the water especialy after his first board which proved to be bit of a dog with water intrusion/and snapping plastic props n all (had fun just not enough (cheers Kite for the concept, love it))
A couple of comparison shots....NQD-mk1(post belt sander incident)-mk2 rough
shape






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Old 02-04-2013, 09:36 AM
  #6407  
kitekook
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Default RE: RC Surfer

DREAD

Your dude looks awesome! Love the drive you have captured....I want one like that too!

I run a hard edge to just in front of your prop...then I use a Tucked Under Edge(JC Hawaii, Shaping 101 DVD)to just in front of the pod...full on soft rail from there to the nose.
I like the TUE....it allows me to turn as hard as I can and not trip over my edges. Super cool when your late getting to the pocket and you just have to throw yourself into it and turn sharply just to make it...That move drew the 'wow' from Slater a few videos back.

Leave a little volume in the nose...I have found it greatly reduced the pearling as you let off the throttle on the wave face.

Take as much volume as you deem safe out of the tail....gotta sink that tail.


As for the pod...make it only as big as you electronics needs. I usually use a 11 in dugout( all the electronics fit easily)
The pod a little shorter...I like to cheat the prop forward...

When shaping the pod I always remember the advise given to me by Maui John while we were surfing Swami's (A Rc Swami Surfing Swami's...lol)

...think like a dolphin...not like a freighter! (as his fist punched his palm)

So before you glass that pod on...run your hands on it and imagine the flow of water...you want a smoooooth dolphin like feel.

It's funny how some things people say stick with me...I had a guru with my FighterKites as well here in San Diego...I used to go visit him at his shop and pick his brain once a week for a long time...I would replay our conversation in my mind on the drive home...savoring the tidbits of info...trying to discover the secrets alluded to...


Anyways, your second attempt looks great so far...looking forward to your progress.
Old 02-04-2013, 09:50 AM
  #6408  
RC HAWAIIAN STYLE
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Default RE: RC Surfer

dreadrock
cant believe that's your second board you have made,,,, sick ,,
please keep us posted on progress,
maui john
Old 02-04-2013, 11:31 AM
  #6409  
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Surfkiwi Servo is small and underpowered, stock servo is around + or - 40mm X 41mm X19mm, 1 5/8in. X 1 5/8in. X 3/4in. the stock torque is around 40 in.oz or 2.9 kg 4.8v.

I recomend something in the range of 9.5kgto 15 kg or more. I'm running a 200 + in.oz. metal gear 2BB servo when you start to seal the rudder box you will be adding pressure to the "O"ring pluss with speed you'll be adding a lot of pressure to the fin, be sure this is not overlooked.

To firure torquekg to in. oz. multiply 13.88 to kg number or to get torquefrom in. oz. number then divideby 13.88 simple

Hope it helps Later BB
Old 02-04-2013, 02:09 PM
  #6410  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howzit Dreadrock...........Great to have you back !........really cool looking board........good symmetry !......

Bro ********. ...
Share the Stoke !


Old 02-04-2013, 02:46 PM
  #6411  
marktw
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howdy guys, I have a stupid question (the only kind I know).....Why does everyone use a pistol grip tx? I know they're 2-3 channel and boards don't need more but future applications might need other channels, such as an animated surfers, sliding weights, whatever. I do see one advantage tho....you can still hold your brown pop or your smoke in your hand while surfing 
Mark
Old 02-04-2013, 04:40 PM
  #6412  
Jimi Findrix
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Dread,

Your board outlinelooks hot and your man looks like he is chargin'.

Good Luck!

JIMI
Old 02-04-2013, 06:18 PM
  #6413  
RC Resinator
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Dreadrock irie mon,
   Kite knows what is up. I am pretty sure it is wise to pay  attention to a guy who has shaped 25 custom ********s. The only thing to add is when shaping your rocker match it to your local spot.  What works  at one spot may not work at another spot.  Steep wave more rocker, mushy wave less rocker. That is what is so cool about shaping your own board.  How you view how a wave should be rcsurfed might be totally different than someone else's  view. Your model looks great!  You know you might just need a quiver!
   
   KEEP THE RESIN FLOWING,
                                                        RC RESINATOR

  P.S. Marktw I can't wait to see what you make!
          
Old 02-04-2013, 06:37 PM
  #6414  
marktw
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Default RE: RC Surfer

hahaahaha, I appreaciate the vote of confidence but neither of those ideas were mine. I just thought a separate control for them might be handy. I have no knowledge of or experiencewith remote control over anything other than the TV, that's why I asked. I'll start off with the NQD Lisa that I just got last month and work up from there.
Mark
Old 02-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #6415  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

QUICK ..............EASY..........CONVENIENT.........boa rd stand and caddy !

carrying every thing one needs to the spot and staying off the sand, is a must when rcSurfing...

I made an elaborate board stand previously - BUT - this time I wanted something simpler - yet as nice.

What can one do with a spent ice cream container.........glue the lid on ......invert it for better stability......cut out the pod shape.......spray it.......velcro strap it - and - Whala !

You have a board stand that also carries the batteries- spare props and a few small required tools.....all in one hand.....off the sand.

Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:48 PM
  #6416  
kitekook
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Had a quick 2 battery session just after lunch...Just down the street from the main WindanSea break towards Big Rock....I'll call it Neptunes' Hump.



Negative low made for some fun shore pound



It was a gray and gloomy day...weather on the way they say...



Finally getting the kinks out of Horse...the carnage at HorseShoes' last week took its toll




Today, it felt like we had it together for the first time since then













Will head out again in the morrow....off to work now.
Old 02-05-2013, 08:45 PM
  #6417  
surfcurls
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Default RE: RC Surfer

YPC

The new caddy is thinking recycle green for sure. Make me one from Rocky Road Lol

I think it needs room for a TX (your gonna need that to run your board). I Have questions about what to do with the board
once you get to the sand. It would have to go on the sand.

Another Issue I sea is, when you come in from a session, you will need to either put the board
again on the sand (Gritty mess) or put it on the box, which will get everything wet from the salt water
drips off the board.

One suggestion: I would strongly consider a better place to grab the box whilst taking it to the beach.

Curly

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
  #6418  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howzit Curls.....LOL.....DT .... sorry for disregarding the obvious.......I forgot to mention my left hand and a towel.

I use my left hand to carry my radio .... and hang a towel around my neck, needed to simply wipe the bottom of the board 'before' I place it on the stand. The water pipes are outside of the box.

Hey ! I don't mind if you make a Tybrid of it....&.......You contantly seem to have a thing about most things 'in hand'........their is counselling for that........LOL

Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
Old 02-06-2013, 01:25 AM
  #6419  
surfkiwi
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Thanks for the advice on the servo. I found this one on Hobbyking which looks better suited http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=9443
I have also been looking at what batteries will fit. Am I better off getting two 3300mah lipos that weight 183g each or a single 6000mah lipo that weighs 333g?
Is there a big advantage in a lighter battery? Having a single battery means a longer runtime without needing to change. What would you all recommend?
One final question. What is the size of the drive shaft on a stock NQD? I need to order the necessary bits to fit it to the 5mm motor shaft.
Cheers,
Mark
Old 02-06-2013, 04:06 AM
  #6420  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howzit Guys......some of what my new board is about !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVjMsjz0cxY[/youtube]

Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
Old 02-06-2013, 08:34 AM
  #6421  
RC HAWAIIAN STYLE
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Default RE: RC Surfer

ypc
she works awesome ,, i swear i saw him drag his hand on one of those 3d turns ,,


i did notice a bit of noise coming from the prop shaft is there no Teflon liner in your stuffing tube,,
5 stars
maui john



ps kite glad see you ripping again ,,, neptune lump that place will eat your rc surfer for lunch,, are you crazy

Old 02-06-2013, 09:59 AM
  #6422  
RC Surfer
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Surfkiwi
Servo looks fine for the price, still a little underpowered it was rated @ 6v, would like to see that (10.2 kg)@ 4.5v

as far as battery it is the physical size, it was designed for a 6 cell Nicd or Nmhi battery this messured + or - 5 3/4 in. leg.(146 mm)X 1 3/4 in. wdt. (45 mm) X 1 in. ht. (26 mm) if your Lipo isn't in this range then you'll be cutting into the inter hatch area witch I don't advise. IMO

IMO would change the stockdrive shaft out for a flex drive, Offshore Electrics has alot of options to choose from, motor couplers to drive shafts to props all there. Stock drive shaft was 4mm.

Hope it helps, Later BB

P.S. Most of this has been covered in back posts.
Old 02-06-2013, 10:16 AM
  #6423  
YPC
 
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Howzit MJ........LOL.......glad you enjoyed the vid !..........I'll try a deep handed bottom turn....

For some reason the drive 'sound' sounds louder on the video......I dont run teflon it s a solid shaft .

Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
Old 02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #6424  
InDaTube
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Default RE: RC Surfer

Hey Kite,

Where can I get adjustable servo horns like what you use for steering setup?

InDaTube
Old 02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
  #6425  
kitekook
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Default RE: RC Surfer

adjustable servo horns ????

rudder control arms...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380540903934...84.m1423.l2649

they also come in red


servo arm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360564182471...84.m1423.l2649


maybe you were talking about the swivels????

I get these at Kintec Racing

http://kintecracing.com/Linkage_O3KP.html

About half way down the page...
I use the HD swivels for the servo control arm

I also use the small swivels for the rudder linkages...

You will find stainless control push rods here as well

2mm for the servo main linkage

1.5 for the cross brace to tie in the twin fins....


Kentec is an awesome supplier...like OSE he ships real fast and has lotsof goodies on his website.

Hope this is the info you were asking about.




Surf 1-3 ...too small for me...maybe tomorrow.


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