Restoring my custom mud pig into a crawler
06-11-2014, 04:18 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Restoring my custom mud pig into a crawler
Well a while ago I build up a HBX Bonzer (tamiya tl01b clone) into one of those mud plugger/monster truck things u see in the states.
It was running a 2400kv motor with a HPI gear reduction gearbox and it was..... Like meh... It had the power it just couldn't go slow enough been a sensorless motor... And the kids managed to brake the body and strip the spur gear...in that time I converted it into 4 wheel steer but I have issues getting the 3 way electronic switches working correctly with the traxxas radio.
so I've striped it down ready for a second try and now it will be running M03 spools with keyed diff cups rather than splined and I'm converting it back to brushed with just a 27t silver can and I need to look into stiffening the chassis
here are some old pics for reference...
It was running a 2400kv motor with a HPI gear reduction gearbox and it was..... Like meh... It had the power it just couldn't go slow enough been a sensorless motor... And the kids managed to brake the body and strip the spur gear...in that time I converted it into 4 wheel steer but I have issues getting the 3 way electronic switches working correctly with the traxxas radio.
so I've striped it down ready for a second try and now it will be running M03 spools with keyed diff cups rather than splined and I'm converting it back to brushed with just a 27t silver can and I need to look into stiffening the chassis
here are some old pics for reference...
06-11-2014, 04:24 AM
#3
Thread Starter
And test videos... As u can see it needs a lot of work lol
http://youtu.be/jI6veCm8Qhg http://youtu.be/B8pshZ37Q1E
http://youtu.be/jI6veCm8Qhg http://youtu.be/B8pshZ37Q1E
06-13-2014, 08:20 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Oh no..... I forgot the silver can brushed motor is longer than the brushless motor I was using, now the rear wheels hardly turn with out hitting it....Dammm it
06-13-2014, 09:22 PM
#6
Do you really need the reduction drive with the 27t motor? It would be a bit of work to fab up a mount but I'd consider going outrunner if you want to go slow with lots of torque. Outrunners have more torque by virtue of having 8 or more poles and you can go a lot lower on the kv while staying small so being sensorless doesn't matter as much.
That blue mud truck is killer. The proportions are just right and I love rc's that emulate those proportions.
That blue mud truck is killer. The proportions are just right and I love rc's that emulate those proportions.
Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 06-13-2014 at 09:29 PM.
06-14-2014, 03:46 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Cheerz for the feedback, generally my projects get unnoticed.... Lol, I didn't think they were that boring
Well the big thing with this is its limited gearing options. All u can only change it the pinion 19t, 21t and 23t
its basicky touring car chassis with buggy arms and MT wheels. So by fitting 120mm wheels it's considerably increased the rollout.
I guess it's considered very over geared for a monster truck. But with the HPI GRU it brings the rollout back into a useable range.
With the GRU and a 2400kv brushless motor preformance wise it was about the same as a stock SCX10 (top speed and acceleration) but had heaps more potential torque. So much that in a bind it can easily destroy the gearbox.
but the issue was it couldn't go slow enough because of the sensorless brushless motor. So I've got a few silver can Johnson motors and there rpm and very similar to the 2400kv motor but won't have that minimum speed/rpm thing like the brushless motor...
so I need to find a shorter brushed motor with about the same preformance as a 27t silver can or another way or reducing the gearing
Well the big thing with this is its limited gearing options. All u can only change it the pinion 19t, 21t and 23t
its basicky touring car chassis with buggy arms and MT wheels. So by fitting 120mm wheels it's considerably increased the rollout.
I guess it's considered very over geared for a monster truck. But with the HPI GRU it brings the rollout back into a useable range.
With the GRU and a 2400kv brushless motor preformance wise it was about the same as a stock SCX10 (top speed and acceleration) but had heaps more potential torque. So much that in a bind it can easily destroy the gearbox.
but the issue was it couldn't go slow enough because of the sensorless brushless motor. So I've got a few silver can Johnson motors and there rpm and very similar to the 2400kv motor but won't have that minimum speed/rpm thing like the brushless motor...
so I need to find a shorter brushed motor with about the same preformance as a 27t silver can or another way or reducing the gearing
Last edited by phmaximus; 06-14-2014 at 03:50 AM.
06-15-2014, 03:20 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Ummm how can I explain it.... The lowest gearing possible on a TL02 chassis 7.96:1....
Where a dead stock Traxxas stampede VXL is 12.32:1
and something like a scx10 is 33.06:1 and above and its common to see that gearing on a 55t motor
so as u can see comparing it to a vehicle with similar wheels there is a massive difference in gearing. The load on the motor is massive.
Over the years in the HBX bonzer thread there has been manny of people including myself that have smoked motors in it because of the gearing... Just this year one guy making a snow plow smoked a Holmes 35t motor on stock gearing.... No kidding its crazy the amount of load this type of gearing causes... It really needs a 600 sized motor or brushless power or a GRU.
Where a dead stock Traxxas stampede VXL is 12.32:1
and something like a scx10 is 33.06:1 and above and its common to see that gearing on a 55t motor
so as u can see comparing it to a vehicle with similar wheels there is a massive difference in gearing. The load on the motor is massive.
Over the years in the HBX bonzer thread there has been manny of people including myself that have smoked motors in it because of the gearing... Just this year one guy making a snow plow smoked a Holmes 35t motor on stock gearing.... No kidding its crazy the amount of load this type of gearing causes... It really needs a 600 sized motor or brushless power or a GRU.
06-15-2014, 07:57 AM
#10
Well like I said I'm clueless when it comes to crawlers, most Tamiya's and 540 can brushed motors are definitely not my expertise either. Wow that thing is geared really high! I'd love to suggest an outrunner again but after looking at the truck again the bracket needed isn't a simple thing. Too bad because something like a 3628 ~1600kv would be shorter than any other motor and work well with the GRU.
06-15-2014, 07:54 PM
#11
props to you man, making a tl01 into a crawler is a very tough job. I had a measure of success making one into a "trail truck" before, but there are many factors with that chassis that make it hard to convert into a crawler.
gearing is first. I never tried adding on a GRU, but I know that without one it is very hard to get the gear reduction needed with just gearing.
There are 70 and 100 turn brushed motors tho. one of those might help.
And hopefully you already have full ball bearings. The trans gears wont take much stress without slipping if you have the stock plastic bushings in it.
I see you already chopped the chassis. that must help with clearance a lot.
I saw a tl01 crawler on youtube....it had wheel wideners on it (25mm added)
It also had a 4:1 GRU and a 55t novak brushed. Stilled looked almost as fast as a stock SCX10 with a 27t!
gearing is first. I never tried adding on a GRU, but I know that without one it is very hard to get the gear reduction needed with just gearing.
There are 70 and 100 turn brushed motors tho. one of those might help.
And hopefully you already have full ball bearings. The trans gears wont take much stress without slipping if you have the stock plastic bushings in it.
I see you already chopped the chassis. that must help with clearance a lot.
I saw a tl01 crawler on youtube....it had wheel wideners on it (25mm added)
It also had a 4:1 GRU and a 55t novak brushed. Stilled looked almost as fast as a stock SCX10 with a 27t!
06-16-2014, 04:05 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Cheerz man, I do admit this has been one of the most challenging builds yet.
First mod was full ball bearing kit, Carbon gear shafts, alloy motor plate and locked the diffs
Then to run longer shocks, I managed to find a set of the HBX alloy shock tower extensions
Then I got the Hpi gear reduction unit and the original EZrun II 35amp ESC and EZrun brushless 2400kv motor
and while I was at it, I've fitted a Traxxas blue servo and kimbrough servo saver with adjustable toe links
next on the list was it needed more steering so I managed to find some plastic HBX one peice lower arms, alloy knuckles and hub carriers.
Then I had issues with the dog bones binding so I fitted some Universial Swing shafts.... But it still needed more steering...
Ive then converted it into 4 wheel steering using a fancy method of switchable steering but had compatibility issues with the traxxas remote I was using at the time. Aswell as that I had excessive rear camber and I fitted a adjustable camber kit and adjustable rear toe rods...Then in all the middle of all that I kept on striping the rear diff cuffs, so I've fitted a tt02/m03 spool and I'm running the keyed hardened tamiya tt02 diff cups.
and here I am 3 years later... With a new gear set, softer front springs and I've removed the brushless combo in favour for the 27t brushed motor I had lying around.
i think a 100t motor would work, but they just don't have the torque a 27t and GRU would have... So it would be a lot easier to stall of slow when under load.
looking back on the video, the suspension looks good and fairly balanced... But, its biggest issues are smoothness.... The brushless combo really was not smooth. Then the minor points, tyres look cool but the provide little to no traction and it looks top heavy and in desperate need of some weighted wheels...
i donk know, thoughts... I can take it.. Lol
http://youtu.be/B8pshZ37Q1E
First mod was full ball bearing kit, Carbon gear shafts, alloy motor plate and locked the diffs
Then to run longer shocks, I managed to find a set of the HBX alloy shock tower extensions
Then I got the Hpi gear reduction unit and the original EZrun II 35amp ESC and EZrun brushless 2400kv motor
and while I was at it, I've fitted a Traxxas blue servo and kimbrough servo saver with adjustable toe links
next on the list was it needed more steering so I managed to find some plastic HBX one peice lower arms, alloy knuckles and hub carriers.
Then I had issues with the dog bones binding so I fitted some Universial Swing shafts.... But it still needed more steering...
Ive then converted it into 4 wheel steering using a fancy method of switchable steering but had compatibility issues with the traxxas remote I was using at the time. Aswell as that I had excessive rear camber and I fitted a adjustable camber kit and adjustable rear toe rods...Then in all the middle of all that I kept on striping the rear diff cuffs, so I've fitted a tt02/m03 spool and I'm running the keyed hardened tamiya tt02 diff cups.
and here I am 3 years later... With a new gear set, softer front springs and I've removed the brushless combo in favour for the 27t brushed motor I had lying around.
i think a 100t motor would work, but they just don't have the torque a 27t and GRU would have... So it would be a lot easier to stall of slow when under load.
looking back on the video, the suspension looks good and fairly balanced... But, its biggest issues are smoothness.... The brushless combo really was not smooth. Then the minor points, tyres look cool but the provide little to no traction and it looks top heavy and in desperate need of some weighted wheels...
i donk know, thoughts... I can take it.. Lol
http://youtu.be/B8pshZ37Q1E
Last edited by phmaximus; 06-16-2014 at 04:14 AM.
06-16-2014, 04:15 AM
#13
no, a 100t alone wouldn't work. I was actually referring to using a 70 or 100t With the GRU. A 100t, with a GRU, plus 3s lipo should be awesome.
I have an exceed 1/8 that has duel 70 or 100t motors....and I can run them on 3s. they are pushing a 12 pound truck up and down rocks and threw thick mud. They actually due fine on 2s, but there are a few times when I need a bit more wheel speed...thus the 3s.
I agree that truck crawler type wheels/tires would work better. just about any 2.2's should work provided the offset is right.
You already have way more supporting mods than I ever did....even on the CC-01 I had built up. You truck might even go over more than my pajero could.
I have an exceed 1/8 that has duel 70 or 100t motors....and I can run them on 3s. they are pushing a 12 pound truck up and down rocks and threw thick mud. They actually due fine on 2s, but there are a few times when I need a bit more wheel speed...thus the 3s.
I agree that truck crawler type wheels/tires would work better. just about any 2.2's should work provided the offset is right.
You already have way more supporting mods than I ever did....even on the CC-01 I had built up. You truck might even go over more than my pajero could.
06-16-2014, 12:14 PM
#14
Join Date: Jul 2012
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That guy was me!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3O1xlpmLgI Here's the short version, the first has more plowing shots though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWqMo03QuJU I paid like $45 for that Holmes Hobbies Motor (My last name happens to be Holmes) and it smoked on the second or third run. It simply got stuck in some snow and the motor started flashing then smoking then smelling. It was awful.... I'm running an RC4WD compact GRU that has a 4:1 reduction. Then I strapped a Tekin Gen2 13.5T brushless to it and run it on 2S.
I have been trying to find an aluminum motor mount to purchase to help stiffen the tranny. I already put a bolt through the body post mounts and I have an aluminum spur to put in it when I get a chance. The only listing I could find was this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPM-ALUMINUM...item19bc431e64 Only problem is, he typed an extra 9 in the price. Now it would cost me $99.99 instead of $9.99. We tried contacting him, but he answered our question with someone else's answer. (If that makes sense) Do you know where I could get one, phmaximus?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3O1xlpmLgI Here's the short version, the first has more plowing shots though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWqMo03QuJU I paid like $45 for that Holmes Hobbies Motor (My last name happens to be Holmes) and it smoked on the second or third run. It simply got stuck in some snow and the motor started flashing then smoking then smelling. It was awful.... I'm running an RC4WD compact GRU that has a 4:1 reduction. Then I strapped a Tekin Gen2 13.5T brushless to it and run it on 2S.
I have been trying to find an aluminum motor mount to purchase to help stiffen the tranny. I already put a bolt through the body post mounts and I have an aluminum spur to put in it when I get a chance. The only listing I could find was this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPM-ALUMINUM...item19bc431e64 Only problem is, he typed an extra 9 in the price. Now it would cost me $99.99 instead of $9.99. We tried contacting him, but he answered our question with someone else's answer. (If that makes sense) Do you know where I could get one, phmaximus?
Over the years in the HBX bonzer thread there has been manny of people including myself that have smoked motors in it because of the gearing... Just this year one guy making a snow plow smoked a Holmes 35t motor on stock gearing.... No kidding its crazy the amount of load this type of gearing causes... It really needs a 600 sized motor or brushless power or a GRU.
06-17-2014, 03:46 AM
#15
Thread Starter
no, a 100t alone wouldn't work. I was actually referring to using a 70 or 100t With the GRU. A 100t, with a GRU, plus 3s lipo should be awesome.
I have an exceed 1/8 that has duel 70 or 100t motors....and I can run them on 3s. they are pushing a 12 pound truck up and down rocks and threw thick mud. They actually due fine on 2s, but there are a few times when I need a bit more wheel speed...thus the 3s.
I agree that truck crawler type wheels/tires would work better. just about any 2.2's should work provided the offset is right.
You already have way more supporting mods than I ever did....even on the CC-01 I had built up. You truck might even go over more than my pajero could.
I have an exceed 1/8 that has duel 70 or 100t motors....and I can run them on 3s. they are pushing a 12 pound truck up and down rocks and threw thick mud. They actually due fine on 2s, but there are a few times when I need a bit more wheel speed...thus the 3s.
I agree that truck crawler type wheels/tires would work better. just about any 2.2's should work provided the offset is right.
You already have way more supporting mods than I ever did....even on the CC-01 I had built up. You truck might even go over more than my pajero could.
i went that way with my Clodbuster hummer... Rc4wd 80t on 3s.
i found with the 3s it really increased the low end torque...
cheerz mate, I think I might looking to that more.
as awesome as the CC01's are, it might be a bit of a unfair comparison because of the size and suspension travel.
to give u an idea here is a old pic of it with my scx10
06-17-2014, 04:03 AM
#16
Thread Starter
That guy was me!
Here's the short version, the first has more plowing shots though:
I paid like $45 for that Holmes Hobbies Motor (My last name happens to be Holmes) and it smoked on the second or third run. It simply got stuck in some snow and the motor started flashing then smoking then smelling. It was awful.... I'm running an RC4WD compact GRU that has a 4:1 reduction. Then I strapped a Tekin Gen2 13.5T brushless to it and run it on 2S.
I have been trying to find an aluminum motor mount to purchase to help stiffen the tranny. I already put a bolt through the body post mounts and I have an aluminum spur to put in it when I get a chance. The only listing I could find was this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPM-ALUMINUM...item19bc431e64 Only problem is, he typed an extra 9 in the price. Now it would cost me $99.99 instead of $9.99. We tried contacting him, but he answered our question with someone else's answer. (If that makes sense) Do you know where I could get one, phmaximus?
Here's the short version, the first has more plowing shots though:
I paid like $45 for that Holmes Hobbies Motor (My last name happens to be Holmes) and it smoked on the second or third run. It simply got stuck in some snow and the motor started flashing then smoking then smelling. It was awful.... I'm running an RC4WD compact GRU that has a 4:1 reduction. Then I strapped a Tekin Gen2 13.5T brushless to it and run it on 2S.
I have been trying to find an aluminum motor mount to purchase to help stiffen the tranny. I already put a bolt through the body post mounts and I have an aluminum spur to put in it when I get a chance. The only listing I could find was this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPM-ALUMINUM...item19bc431e64 Only problem is, he typed an extra 9 in the price. Now it would cost me $99.99 instead of $9.99. We tried contacting him, but he answered our question with someone else's answer. (If that makes sense) Do you know where I could get one, phmaximus?
As for the motor mount... I don't know. There use to be heaps on ebay but I can only find that expensive one...and a quick google found heaps but all out of stock.....
If u want I've got one u could have (silver) u pay postage and its yours...only thing.... It does not have the longer screws as they are lost. But they are just a M3 screw so finding a replacement wouldn't be very hard
06-17-2014, 06:44 AM
#17
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Thanks to you who helped me figure out my gearing options! Hats off to Phmaximus!
Wow! Thanks for the offer! I'll think about taking you up on that. If you don't have the longer screws, it makes no difference to me. I have the GRU on there so I would have to buy even longer screws anyway. I think I'm using like 3 x 42.5mm that I cut from a 3 x 50mm. So with the mount, it might take a 3 x 60mm cut to exact length. What do you think shipping a small package from Australia would cost?
Wow! Thanks for the offer! I'll think about taking you up on that. If you don't have the longer screws, it makes no difference to me. I have the GRU on there so I would have to buy even longer screws anyway. I think I'm using like 3 x 42.5mm that I cut from a 3 x 50mm. So with the mount, it might take a 3 x 60mm cut to exact length. What do you think shipping a small package from Australia would cost?
