The Hedgehog

"Nitros are nothing compared to nitros"

That is untrue. There are high powered nitro motors out there. They offer a smoother delivary of power and more controlable power on a track.

The brushless guy at the track last week was doing donuts because of all the torque.

Wheelies get boring after awhile...

Always Dreamin

Nitros to nitros are the same thing... (yes, I know it was a typo)

That has to be the most silly reason I've ever heard. If you honestly don't like brushless because it simply has too much torque, maybe your just not used to the crazy power. Just FYI, that's why the Mamba has a thing called "punch control."

Always Dreamin

You have to decide if you're going to compare nitro to brushed or nitro to brushless. Nitro to brushed isn't really fair. Nitro is faster, funner, and probably not THAT much more work seeing how the brushed motor needs new brushes every now and then. Brushless takes advantage of the no maintenance feature, is funner, and more efficient. [8D]

Brushless for the win. [8D]

Edumakated

Other than the noise (which can be drawback depending on your perspective) there really isn't any advantage a nitro has over electric now.

Top Speed: Electric hands down. There isn't a modded, top end nitro motor that could keep up with a properly set up brushless/lipo car. I don't care if it is .18, .21, or .28. Not even in the same ball park.

Acceleration: Electric accelerates about 2x's as fast as a nitro. Because the acceleration is so fast, electrics clear jumps with short run ups that nitro's never even considered possible.

Maintenance: Electric is pretty much plug and go. About the only tuning you do is fine tuning the ESC parameters like your throttle curve.

Torque: Again, electric hands down. 100% torque at 1 rpm.

Runtime: A properly set up lipo/brushless can run 15 minutes with no issues. 20 minutes is easy too. A 3s 8000 in a 1/10 can run up to 45 minutes straight.

Nitro is fun and I actually like them. However, the reality is that combustion engines in radio controlled cars is outdated technology. Will everyone convert to electric? Probably not, but electric will take over nitro in the next couple of years. There will always be a few gearheads who can't get over the noise and smoke - just like there were some people who preferred horse and carriages when the Model T came out.

Always Dreamin

Finally, the first Edumakated post, LOL.

Very nice, and I agree 100%. Electric wins in just about every catagory. But when you bring brushed into it nitro starts to look a little better.

My Name Is Brad

nitro is winning the pole.




chew on that you battery powered fanatics.

Always Dreamin

Doesn't mean it's better. People can vote whatever they want, brushless is better, look at the facts. Nothing better then watching a converted 1/8 buggy put a nitro to shame.

dsales

This all al just part of research and development, nitros better than electrics, then electrics better than nitro...

Recet brushless technology and lipos have made electrics much faster at the moment but no doubt in the future nitros will catch up again and overtake electrics and then electric cars will come out with something new and better...

Plus, electric RC cars are advancing much quicker now becasue they share their technology with much more popular things such as the research and development into Lipos has already been done by many electronic companys for mobiles, camcorders and other uses and has then been adapted for RC cars, same goes with the brushless motors.

Always Dreamin

That basically means a bigger motor, = more weight, but I still don't think that they will ever have as high of efficiency as electrics. I can't see the future, but all I know is that at the current time, with the current technology, nitro is behind, and electrics are leading the way.

Access

The problem is that electric takes more skill, you can't drive an electric like a nitro and expect to stay in control. The power delivery is much more sudden or instant, pinging it like you ping a nitro will break it loose and if you want to drive it that way, there are solutions like a Novak 'L' motor or lots of 'punch control'. So driving it takes a different mindset altogether, more like a ballet dancer than, say, a pro wrestler.

Electric can be shown better from an objective standpoint but b'cos it's a hobby and for many about the sights, sounds, smells, etc. there will always be people who prefer nitro, which is fine by me, just accept it and move on rather then getting all wound up over it.

dsales

Hey, how long have electrics been behind nitros, 50+ years?

Edumakated

It is against the laws of physics to have a combustion engine that will be as efficient in producing the same amount of power as an electric. It would be impractical. Combustion technology will never catch up. If anything it will die out. Hence why we have nuclear subs, nuclear power plants, natural gas engines, etc.

Most nitro guys who haven't experienced a properly set up brushless conversion will generally say nitro. All it takes is for one to actually drive a 1/8 brushless and see the grin on their face. Most will get over the lack of noise and smoke when they can clear a 25-30 foot double with five feet of run up or simply up the voltage and have their car doing 70 mph without trying.

Like I said, I love watching nitros. The smoke and noise gives the cars a soul that an electric simply can't produce. However, electric technology has surpassed nitro in EVERY single way. As the cost of Lipos continues to fall, more and more people will continue to convert.

The [link]http://www.teslamotors.com/[/link]Tesla sports car is nothing but a 1:1 lipo conversion. All the same principles apply in the real world as it does in our hobby. It is just a Lotus Elise with a large brushless motor in the trunk with big ass lipo battery. The car only has 220 horsepower, but it is so efficient and the torque instant, that it will destroy pretty much any super car on the road to 60 mph. Gets 200 miles on 3.5 hour charge.

Edumakated

The biggest issue was having a reliable power source - battery technology. Battery technology has improved exponentially and will only get better. I am sure there are batteries that are smaller and even more powerful than lipos on the way. For years the only cost effective way to make substantial power COST EFFECTIVELY was a combustion engine. Now that the cost of producing greater amounts of power has come down, combustion engines are going to be one their way out.

Driving an electric is definitely a different feel. Learning how to control the torque is the biggest challenge along with not blipping the throttle. With electric the power is ALWAYS on so you just have to learn how to slowly roll the throttle to get the right amount of constant power. It takes a very sensitive throttle finger.

Access

Edu also if you look at things like the diesel-electric locomotive of new car designs like the chevy volt, they also further reinforce the performance advantage of an electric motor (over a reciprocating combustion engine). Both these setups have electric drive systems powered in whole (or in part) by an engine turning a generator. Nitro has pretty much maxed out as far as the power/weight/size and isn't going to get much better. It may be possible for further improvements for fuel-burning vehicles, but they'd come from things like microturbines or other combinational setups like the 'volt'.

e123

I dont know that I have much to add in this debate - they both have their strong points. Electric is more efficient and faster but I love the noise and smoke too much to switch from nitro.
Also, maybe a little off topic but how do you set up an electric to be totally waterproof?? I understand the motor, esc, servo can be submerged but what about the battery? Seems like you could make a pretty interesting track with an underwater section!

The Hedgehog

I've done the electric brushless thing as said I have had my cars around 35-65 mph. Got boring FAST.

Obviously you never have been racing, it takes a lot more skill to drive a brushless 1/8th skill than nitro as access said. I was not the river behind that vehicle.

And FYI mambas are not the only brushless esc on the market.

It's qute ignorant to say one is completely better than the other, but its poster like you that keep these threads going. Both have strong points, and some are more enjoyable to different people for different reasons.

The Hedgehog

You don't have to worry about the batery generally unless driving in corrosive environments.

I have had a bunch of snow vehicles, honestly you just balloon the RX, waterproof esc, and servo if you want (I didn't even bother)

Always Dreamin

I have raced them both. I have a track right by my house. I know brushless takes more skill. He was saying that because you were making a lame excuse about how brushless just had too much torque. Learn throttle control.

They are one of the most popular. There is also a thing called throttle control. It's not that hard to learn. Some ESC's even have a training mode that you can use. Don't feel bad, not everyone can handle brushless power.

The Hedgehog

*Edit* not worth arguing with 8 year olds.

Racing an 8th scale electric IS a bit more challenging than a nitro. When you have to worry about taking the best lines and stuff having that extra bit can make things difficult sometime.

You obviously don't race, that's why you have a Stampede.

The Hedgehog

Whoops[&:]

Always Dreamin

Doesn't mean I can't race. Just because I don't have $800 to spend on an 8ight conversion doesn't mean that I don't have fun at a track. I run 2s lipo in a hard sandy track, with 2wd it's almost impossible to control. I still have fun, and I have learned to control my finger. I run the Stampede great. I have owned a brushless 1/8 too. If your going to complain about electric simply having "too much torque," maybe you deserve nitro.

Always Dreamin

It's pretty obvious that it takes more skill to run the Stampede good then a 4wd buggy. (I knew someone would bring the Stampede into this)

Access

I think we can sum it up like this: From an objective point of view Electric is just plain better (by any fair comparison). From a subjective point of view, some people prefer nitro due for numerous non-objective reasons, the smoke, the noise, the feel, the vibration, etc. These things can't be objectified or fairly compared, they're not things like cost, performance, etc. The people who buy electrics aren't buying them for the smoke-blowing ability or the noise to begin with.

Always Dreamin

I agree 100%, Access. This isn't worth arguing over. It's simply preference. Some nitro guys are just too set in their ways.

Seriously, I can't believe I'm arguing over this. I like electric for it's high torque, and AutoX is arguing nitro because it has less torque? [&:]

The Hedgehog

No I am not talking about amount of torque torque. I like the smoother delivery of torque for racing applications. I have raced both 8th scale nitro and electric and right now prefer nitro.