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Zippy vs high end lipo?

Old 12-11-2009, 11:59 AM
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katzcratch
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Default Zippy vs high end lipo?

Ihave loaded up on the zippy/rhino lipos. Iwas looking at max amps and the same 20$ zippys are like 80. Obviously better products cost more but, has anyone found that a high end brand is that much better than a low cost zippy?
I mean could you see the speed difference....
Idont mind spending more for something better, but Iam also just playing out in the street, not on a race track..yet
Old 12-11-2009, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: katzcratch
Idont mind spending more for something better, but Iam also just playing out in the street, not on a race track..yet
If you're not racing I would guess that any differences would be negligible to nill especially if you're just fun-running.

What you have to keep in mind is that the U.S.-based battery companies are running a business, selling in relatively small numbers, and buying in smaller numbers - and that the overseas sellers are dealing in larger quantities and bulk sales and not having to import products for repackaging.
The LiPO cells being sold for RC cars are not manufacturered specifically for RC car use, they're used somewhere else in something else - and it just so happens that they fit the parameters of what we're using them for. And, currently at least, there is no sort of matching equipment for putting together hand-selected or matched LiPO packs like there was with NiMH and NiCd packs - so to some extent, other than the hard-casemodelsbeing offered,LiPOs are LiPOs,

But ultimately what you need to keep in mind is that by spending your money in the U.S. that you're supporting the U.S. economy, while purchasing overseas.....well....you get the idea....
Old 12-11-2009, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

I see NO difference...............however im not a racer. There is no way you could ever get me to buy a hugely overpriced lower end quality maxamps over a Zippy or Turnigy(the ones i use). There is such a huge disparity here its not even a debatable point IMO.
Old 12-11-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

1) Maxamps are too expensive, not worth considering for the cost. If you want the best batteries out there, at any cost, something like thunderpower is a good brand to look into. Maxamps you are paying a lot for nothing in return.

2) I haven't specifically tested the Zippy's but here is a discharge curve from thunderpower's 40C 'race packs' compared to a mediocre brand like Venom's battery. As you can see the difference starts at around 0.6V (~8%) and drops to around 0.2V (~2%) by the very end. It's not a huge difference and things generally come down to the concept of 'diminishing returns'. After some base price, you pay a lot more to get a little more performance. Most tech out there in the world today is like this. Look at laptops, digital cameras, guns, etc. A $1200. laptop might be only 20% faster than a $600. one. And that $600. one may be only 30% faster than a $300. one. When you get into the higher end gear, you are paying a lot more money for a little more gain.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93...tm.htm#9302976

If you are one of those people who always have to have the best and will settle for nothing less, a brand like thunderpower is the way to go. But if you can live with a little less performance and want to save money, get the cheap stuff b'cos it isn't much worse than the best stuff out there (all else being equal). You can always over-rate or over-load your LiPos anyways, two or three 5000mAH Zippys or whatever in parallel are going to perform better than a single 5000mAH thunderpower pack if you can handle the size and weight difference.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:47 PM
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katzcratch
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

Thanks access thats some good info. Pretty impressive tests you ran...you must have an engineering backround?
I looked at those graphs good stuff
Old 12-11-2009, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

I run the zippy/flightmax packs and I am very pleased with the performance of them.. They have performed much better than I expected.. I've run them against Max Amps and there wasn't enough of a difference to justify the 4X price difference... As Access said, unless you are racing and have to have the best.. these work fine.. My only complaint of the Zippy packs is you have to get them from China and shipping can get expensive for small amounts.. still a bargain however.. I have 7 flightmax packs and have many cycles thru them and they still work fine....
Old 12-11-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

Access is right on with it costing twice as much for a small improvement. Now, since we're always comparing Zippys to Maxamps(low grade IMO) and Venom(mid grade)................there are some lipos out there that would be superior to the zippy, once again, a small gain but more than enough to justify it to a serious racer. Here are batts that i think are pretty top notch if you want the best:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXXLX3&P=7

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...cing_Lipo_Pack

http://www.ehobbies.com/thp50002sprd.html

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXWRA9&P=7

Just my humble opinion..................
Old 12-11-2009, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...D=THP50002SPRD
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...D=THP50003SPRD

Actually these "40C race packs" are pretty much the top of the line for the stock or super stock racers out there.
There's really no point in the middle-of-the-road cells, you either get the best or you get the cheap ones. Now I am hearing rumors of 50C packs coming out soon; already thunderpower has 45C packs available and ones with increased cycle life / rapid 6C charging.
Old 12-11-2009, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

My goodness you could run this for a whole afternoon......................and 176amps continouos................

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...D=THP80002SSRT
Old 12-11-2009, 02:38 PM
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savagecommander
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

two 5k zippys would cost me $40 and deliver 200A..... nothing agaist maxamps but theres no comparison for me. and the "buy american" arguement is a nice touch, but if youre going to say that, make sure your charger is made in the states also.
Old 12-12-2009, 01:43 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: savagecommander

two 5k zippys would cost me $40 and deliver 200A..... nothing agaist maxamps but theres no comparison for me. and the ''buy american'' arguement is a nice touch, but if youre going to say that, make sure your charger is made in the states also.
I agree,
and the "buy american".
Where does maxamps get their batteries because they do not make their own batteries.. Hmmmm [:-]
Old 12-12-2009, 02:09 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

I can understand the "buy american" part. Even if the packs are made in china its an american company selling them and it would help our economy if we could all support them. I will not buy from them, not when the price is not even close, but if it was comparable I would. But the fact is that we could not live like we do without chinese products. As much as it sucks they have what we want and I will buy it.
I have however purchased a few American brand lipos hoping for a large difference in performance. I paid over $100 for 2 of them. I also have a large stock of packs from Hobbycity. I do have one Reedy Lipo that performs ever so slightly better than my cheap ones, but I would never pay for that small of a difference even if I was racing stock class and needed every last advantage.
Old 12-12-2009, 04:43 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

ORIGINAL: burnineyes
I can understand the ''buy american'' part. Even if the packs are made in china its an american company selling them and it would help our economy if we could all support them. I will not buy from them, not when the price is not even close, but if it was comparable I would. But the fact is that we could
In this economy you are seriously just better off buying the cheapest thing and saving the rest of your money. It's something like a 3:1 cost ratio. Save your money and if you want to do the patriotic thing, invest the money you saved into the economy. The reason we are in this economic mess in the first place is b'cos the modern consumer paid way too much for things he couldn't even afford long-term. Don't fall into the same trap that consumers have been falling into for the last several years.
Old 12-12-2009, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: rebuilder

I see NO difference...............however im not a racer..
Then of course you wouldn't really know.
Old 12-12-2009, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: Access

1) Maxamps are too expensive, not worth considering for the cost. If you want the best batteries out there, at any cost, something like thunderpower is a good brand to look into. Maxamps you are paying a lot for nothing in return.

2) I haven't specifically tested the Zippy's but here is a discharge curve from thunderpower's 40C 'race packs' compared to a mediocre brand like Venom's battery. As you can see the difference starts at around 0.6V (~8%) and drops to around 0.2V (~2%) by the very end. It's not a huge difference and things generally come down to the concept of 'diminishing returns'. After some base price, you pay a lot more to get a little more performance. Most tech out there in the world today is like this. Look at laptops, digital cameras, guns, etc. A $1200. laptop might be only 20% faster than a $600. one. And that $600. one may be only 30% faster than a $300. one. When you get into the higher end gear, you are paying a lot more money for a little more gain.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93...tm.htm#9302976

If you are one of those people who always have to have the best and will settle for nothing less, a brand like thunderpower is the way to go. But if you can live with a little less performance and want to save money, get the cheap stuff b'cos it isn't much worse than the best stuff out there (all else being equal). You can always over-rate or over-load your LiPos anyways, two or three 5000mAH Zippys or whatever in parallel are going to perform better than a single 5000mAH thunderpower pack if you can handle the size and weight difference.
+1

I'm all for the buy American thing, but sometimes companies here greedily price themselves right out of the market.
Old 12-12-2009, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: cool-joe


ORIGINAL: rebuilder

I see NO difference...............however im not a racer..
Then of course you wouldn't really know. [img][/img]
Thats my point exactly................The small difference is not justifiable to a basher who chases dogs at the park, and i fall into the 75% of us that dont race. For the "average joe" these lipos are more than sufficient when we see the huge difference over nimh.
Old 12-12-2009, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

I see zippy has some 2s 40c packs now. http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=9956
Old 12-12-2009, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: rebuilder


ORIGINAL: cool-joe


ORIGINAL: rebuilder

I see NO difference...............however im not a racer..
Then of course you wouldn't really know. [img][/img]
Thats my point exactly................The small difference is not justifiable to a basher who chases dogs at the park, and i fall into the 75% of us that dont race. For the "average joe" these lipos are more than sufficient when we see the huge difference over nimh.
But that is the point too often I see these threads started where some guy will say something like "I bought this pack because somebody said it was good, but it's not as good as my old one I've had a year that cost twice as much - how come?"

Realistically, the matched NiMH race packs many of us have run (and still do) are just as powerfull and in many cases still being used by the top racers.
But the fact that you can't tell the difference just tells me that you haven't that wide range of experiences to base an opinion... that's all
Old 12-12-2009, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: redfisher1974

I see zippy has some 2s 40c packs now. http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=9956
I have Turnigy packs from them and they rock!
Old 12-12-2009, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

ORIGINAL: cool-joe


ORIGINAL: rebuilder


ORIGINAL: cool-joe


ORIGINAL: rebuilder

I see NO difference...............however im not a racer..
Then of course you wouldn't really know. [img][/img]
Thats my point exactly................The small difference is not justifiable to a basher who chases dogs at the park, and i fall into the 75% of us that dont race. For the ''average joe'' these lipos are more than sufficient when we see the huge difference over nimh.
But that is the point too often I see these threads started where some guy will say something like ''I bought this pack because somebody said it was good, but it's not as good as my old one I've had a year that cost twice as much - how come?''

Realistically, the matched NiMH race packs many of us have run (and still do) are just as powerfull and in many cases still being used by the top racers.
But the fact that you can't tell the difference just tells me that you haven't that wide range of experiences to base an opinion... that's all

most racers still use nimh because they have sponsors- at least the big ones do. im sure once sponsoring for lipo's kicks in we'll see a shift.... single cell is getting popular in carpet racing as we speak.

and ive never seen a matched nimh pack keep up with a lipo- and saying someone lacks base of opinion because they dont race is...well...... just your opinion.
Old 12-12-2009, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: savagecommander

most racers still use nimh because they have sponsors- at least the big ones do. im sure once sponsoring for lipo's kicks in we'll see a shift.... single cell is getting popular in carpet racing as we speak.

and ive never seen a matched nimh pack keep up with a lipo- and saying someone lacks base of opinion because they dont race is...well...... just your opinion.

LOL - you need to get out more, to some of the bigger races.
Old 12-12-2009, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

cuz im sure you have first hand knowledge of my racing experience...... either way, ive had more than one fathead nimrod try to tell me i was stupid for buying a $25 lipo in the pit, and when the race is over they suddenly are silent.

im sure acess is working on another fantastic testing block to give us some insight and hopefully close the door on the "VS" discussion before more administration intervention is required.
Old 12-12-2009, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?

I have yet to see a nimh pack put out the power of a good lipo pack..
Old 12-12-2009, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: savagecommander

cuz im sure you have first hand knowledge of my racing experience...... either way, ive had more than one fathead nimrod try to tell me i was stupid for buying a $25 lipo in the pit, and when the race is over they suddenly are silent.

im sure acess is working on another fantastic testing block to give us some insight and hopefully close the door on the "VS" discussion before more administration intervention is required.

Maybe you misunderstood, but I've never raced at a backwoods track wheresome hillbillywith a $25 lipo would have had the chance at making the A-Main. Maybe the E, but definately not the A. So regardless of what they're running, I wouldn't have to worry about seeing them either way.

So, no worries.
Old 12-12-2009, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Zippy vs high end lipo?


ORIGINAL: srt10

I have yet to see a nimh pack put out the power of a good lipo pack..

HMMMMM you must not have never been around any real good factory nimh cells LOL

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