Is combat dead?
12-19-2011, 01:09 PM
#78
RE: Is combat dead?
Welcome to what we call RC combat. You see, it's a simple little thing that grew out of CL combat really. Take a couple planes, maybe more, of the same type, tie a piece of string around the tail and a piece of streamer to that and try to cut one with the other. They don't have to be the same class plane, but it's better if they are competition wise. It's really kinda fun to put just anything up there against anything. You'd be surprised how many times a trainer can get the advantage of a Fun Fly airplane. As for the types there are little bitty weight nothings that really can take running into each other because there's little kinetic energy involved. There's faster planes that are built a bit more rugged to take the hit and there's other planes that go fast but won't take any hit whatsoever. Folks spend as little or as much as they want on their planes realizing that the mere fact they are trying to get the airplanes into the same area increases the chance of a midair. But all in all it's quite fun and requires little to no special equipment. Somebody came along about 10-15 years ago and though maybe, just maybe, we ought to have a safety set back and some hard hats. Just in case several of us actually had a brain cell or two left in their heads.
Electrics showed up and now we're chasing quite airplanes around and either going after little streamers OR just knocking the other guy out of the air altogether. Like slope combat there generally isn't enough kinetic energy to harm the planes save a prop tearing it up and all damage can usually be repaired with a hot glue gun, some time and maybe just a little ingenuity (read that as more hot glue!)
This has pretty much been combat since the dawn of Control line flight and it's a HOOT.
Now, if you've developed something that you want to bring to the masses, START YOUR OWN THREAD!
In it, give us some pictures, some description, some feasabiltys. Costs, design, the whole smear. I don't go to the AMA forums especially anything that is members only. Doesn't do me any good to keep my ideas to myself if I'm going to go play with other people that may not use the AMA as an insurance carrier. While I am a Contest Director for the AMA, there are things that they do that I either don't agree with or flat out rub me raw. Nevertheless, you're not going to get to many people by just posting things on one forum then going to other places and saying they need to go there. Provide the information here and at other forums. You can cut and paste most of it, but don't use this silly tactic to drive people from this forum that we love to another forum that we really don't care about.
And if you're not willing to do that basic bit of foot work, ta hell with your idea. I'll not do your footwork for you! But I will read your thread in this forum OR over on SPADworld or maybe even RCGroups. Where is your thread on RCCA's forum? Seems that if you were going to do something with combat you'd focus on the AMA's SIG forum. You getting the picture sparky? SHARE, don't just trick and get all pissy when I don't fall for it. Put in some effort advertising or keep it to yourself. It actually IS a matter of I don't have the time to chase down your hinted at links. Put it here or forget about it. YOU are the one that isn't sharing.
I can keep typing analogies OR you could just make a thread. Won't you please contribute something besides I am too lazy?
Electrics showed up and now we're chasing quite airplanes around and either going after little streamers OR just knocking the other guy out of the air altogether. Like slope combat there generally isn't enough kinetic energy to harm the planes save a prop tearing it up and all damage can usually be repaired with a hot glue gun, some time and maybe just a little ingenuity (read that as more hot glue!)
This has pretty much been combat since the dawn of Control line flight and it's a HOOT.
Now, if you've developed something that you want to bring to the masses, START YOUR OWN THREAD!
In it, give us some pictures, some description, some feasabiltys. Costs, design, the whole smear. I don't go to the AMA forums especially anything that is members only. Doesn't do me any good to keep my ideas to myself if I'm going to go play with other people that may not use the AMA as an insurance carrier. While I am a Contest Director for the AMA, there are things that they do that I either don't agree with or flat out rub me raw. Nevertheless, you're not going to get to many people by just posting things on one forum then going to other places and saying they need to go there. Provide the information here and at other forums. You can cut and paste most of it, but don't use this silly tactic to drive people from this forum that we love to another forum that we really don't care about.
And if you're not willing to do that basic bit of foot work, ta hell with your idea. I'll not do your footwork for you! But I will read your thread in this forum OR over on SPADworld or maybe even RCGroups. Where is your thread on RCCA's forum? Seems that if you were going to do something with combat you'd focus on the AMA's SIG forum. You getting the picture sparky? SHARE, don't just trick and get all pissy when I don't fall for it. Put in some effort advertising or keep it to yourself. It actually IS a matter of I don't have the time to chase down your hinted at links. Put it here or forget about it. YOU are the one that isn't sharing.
I can keep typing analogies OR you could just make a thread. Won't you please contribute something besides I am too lazy?
12-19-2011, 01:12 PM
#79
RE: Is combat dead?
By the way, after typing all that garbage up above to show my discontent, I did just go check to see if he had made a thread yet. It'd really have errked me if after typing, editing and retyping for 15 minutes if he had already done what I was chastising him for. Tells us it's over on the AMA forum but doesn't give us a link. Doesn't care to post any of it here either.
grmble grmble. See, I try being nice and they just don't take the hint.
grmble grmble. See, I try being nice and they just don't take the hint.
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
#81
RE: Is combat dead?
Not here, go to RC Combat forum (just have to exit this thread), hit the new thread button. Edify, please. I've been flippant here for fun but if you really want to get us involved, give us the information. I'll give you credit, honest. Pat you on the back and call you one of this centuries great men BUT you're gonna have to do the work. Goddard was the father or Rocketry, in America anyways. But he didn't share and he wouldn't listen and in the end we had to import Nazis to get our spaceprogram off the ground. Don't be a Goddard.
Wait, with the above example I kind of make it sound like you're either Goddard or a Nazi. That can't be right.
Wait, with the above example I kind of make it sound like you're either Goddard or a Nazi. That can't be right.
12-20-2011, 06:07 AM
#83
RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 ''classes''.......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other ''class'' is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual ''Combat Minutes'' for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 ''classes''.......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other ''class'' is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual ''Combat Minutes'' for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
12-20-2011, 07:09 AM
#84
RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: raptureboy
If your holding an AMA sanctioned event and your drinking and flying then you are in violation of the AMA safety code, and even if it's not a sanctioned event it's just plain dumb to be getting drunk and flying period. Save the beer for later, after the flying
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 ''classes''.......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other ''class'' is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual ''Combat Minutes'' for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 ''classes''.......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other ''class'' is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual ''Combat Minutes'' for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
12-20-2011, 07:29 AM
#85
RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 "classes".......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other "class" is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual "Combat Minutes" for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
The only scoring we do while flying combat is who has drank the most beer. Usually it's just 2 guys up at a time and it's not hard to figure out who did what to who.
We fly 2 "classes".......15 diesel powered planes with 8x6 nylon props on 500 sq inch wings. These planes are very slow and mid airs are pretty easy to avoid. The drawback is they are smelly diesels.
The other "class" is .049 to .061 powered planes fly on 300 sq inch wings with 6x3 props. They are fairly slow and usually don't have enough kinetic energy to plow through the tall alfalfa and reach the ground after a death spiral. Midairs are pretty easy to avoid, but as the day wears on and the ice chest begins to empty out, there is an increased change of some carnage. Most repairs can be done in 15 minutes at the field with scrap wood, CA glue and clear packing tape.
A good day's worth of actual "Combat Minutes" for just 2 guys is 12 matches X 15 or 20 minutes each....or 3 or 4 hours of streamer chasing. That's a lot of combat.....and oh yah, 6 light canadian lagers is a good day's worth for me also.
12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
#87
RE: Is combat dead?
There is a bar at my old club. Rod and gun club, beer and guns. Who drinks light beer? 5 regular beers equals 7 lights. At least they are Canadian though. I never saw any stumble drunks flying though, that was for after the crashes.
12-20-2011, 09:02 AM
#88
RE: Is combat dead?
aspeed, when it's 95 degrees out there, those 9% Imperial Stouts make it pretty tough on an old man.........[sm=bananahead.gif]
I really like Moosehead or Kokanee lagers and we've started getting Gennesee lager now from back east which is pretty good "lawn mower" beer on a hot day.
I have to admit that after spending all day out there with oil spray, diesel fumes, drip fed with 4% beer, sun rays turned up to broil......I'm a pretty fried potato by Sun down.
I really like Moosehead or Kokanee lagers and we've started getting Gennesee lager now from back east which is pretty good "lawn mower" beer on a hot day.
I have to admit that after spending all day out there with oil spray, diesel fumes, drip fed with 4% beer, sun rays turned up to broil......I'm a pretty fried potato by Sun down.
12-20-2011, 09:39 AM
#89
RE: Is combat dead?
I stay in when it is 95 out. I just get the buck a beers here. (that is the cheapest , lots of taxes here) Lately I have been going for the dealcoholised beers because of the gout, but sneak in the odd regular ones. (1, 3, 5, 7, ...)
12-20-2011, 09:59 AM
#90
Join Date: Jul 2004
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RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
HoundDog, we found that Canadian Lagers do the best job of staying hydrated during the day after taking a bunch of LSD at the Pilot's Meeting........[8D]
HoundDog, we found that Canadian Lagers do the best job of staying hydrated during the day after taking a bunch of LSD at the Pilot's Meeting........[8D]
12-20-2011, 10:51 AM
#93
RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: OzMo
EEERRRR UMMMMM OOOK,
How do you guys tell which one is the real airplane??????????????[:-]
EEERRRR UMMMMM OOOK,
How do you guys tell which one is the real airplane??????????????[:-]
True story...I was in traffic court once and a "Tommy Chong" type hippy went before the judge to explain why he sat in his car through something like 12 signal light cycles before moving his car [had to be a VW] through the intersection...then he was followed and pulled over for going something like 5 mph on the freeway.
The whole court room was laughing so hard...we were in tears.
12-20-2011, 12:46 PM
#94
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Eagle HeightsQueensland, AUSTRALIA
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RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Really slow paced, low impact classes were never developed for the AMA rulebook.
Keep the planes to 14 ozs or less with wing areas around 300 sq inches and just enough power to manuever at will but keep the speed limited to about 35 mph. I've flown this formula over the years locally and you can fly all day with the same planes if you bring clear packing tape and CA glue for random repairs. A good day at the field for just 2 combateers is typically 12 matches that last 15 minutes each.
Really slow paced, low impact classes were never developed for the AMA rulebook.
Keep the planes to 14 ozs or less with wing areas around 300 sq inches and just enough power to manuever at will but keep the speed limited to about 35 mph. I've flown this formula over the years locally and you can fly all day with the same planes if you bring clear packing tape and CA glue for random repairs. A good day at the field for just 2 combateers is typically 12 matches that last 15 minutes each.
12-20-2011, 01:19 PM
#95
RE: Is combat dead?
ORIGINAL: tonyob
Can you suggest any existing plans or planes that have worked well for you using this criteria? I've been trying to get some combat going at my local field for some time and figure if I build a couple of planes and just show up with them, I'm sure to get a combatant.
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Really slow paced, low impact classes were never developed for the AMA rulebook.
Keep the planes to 14 ozs or less with wing areas around 300 sq inches and just enough power to manuever at will but keep the speed limited to about 35 mph. I've flown this formula over the years locally and you can fly all day with the same planes if you bring clear packing tape and CA glue for random repairs. A good day at the field for just 2 combateers is typically 12 matches that last 15 minutes each.
Really slow paced, low impact classes were never developed for the AMA rulebook.
Keep the planes to 14 ozs or less with wing areas around 300 sq inches and just enough power to manuever at will but keep the speed limited to about 35 mph. I've flown this formula over the years locally and you can fly all day with the same planes if you bring clear packing tape and CA glue for random repairs. A good day at the field for just 2 combateers is typically 12 matches that last 15 minutes each.
THE SPAD-GNAT is one of the easiest we've used. We can pound out a bunch for a few bucks apiece and then power them with OS-15FP's and we spend the entire afternoon chacing each other!
12-20-2011, 01:43 PM
#96
RE: Is combat dead?
I build rectangular wings wing 1/4" x 1/4" hard balsa spars and leading edge, 3/32" balsa ribs, preformed trailing edge stock and 1/8" thick balsa elevons.
The wing measures 36" long with a chord of 9 or 10 inches including elevons.
The wingtip ribs are 1/4" thick balsa and I use double sided tape and screws to attach winglets / fins so they break away instead of damaging the wing.
The center rib should be thick enough to anchor a length of arrow shaft or FG kite tubing. Make the tubing extend past [over or under] the trailing edge of the wing and glue a dorsal fin there if you need tail weight. This also makes a nice handle to grasp for launching the plane.
The engine / tank mount can be built like a profile plane and glued and FG'd to the wing after the wing is covered...or you can rig your own mount for electric power.
Balance the plane at 15% and use 1/4" of elevon throw.
I'll dig a plane out of storage to show you what they look like.
Oh yah, I like to use Norvel .061s and 6x3 props for power with a Hayes 2 oz tank. This will give you pretty slow speeds and 15 minute rounds.
These planes were covered with craft store cellophane with 3M77 spray adhesive, then the seams get clear packing tape for extra protection from fuel creepage.
The wing measures 36" long with a chord of 9 or 10 inches including elevons.
The wingtip ribs are 1/4" thick balsa and I use double sided tape and screws to attach winglets / fins so they break away instead of damaging the wing.
The center rib should be thick enough to anchor a length of arrow shaft or FG kite tubing. Make the tubing extend past [over or under] the trailing edge of the wing and glue a dorsal fin there if you need tail weight. This also makes a nice handle to grasp for launching the plane.
The engine / tank mount can be built like a profile plane and glued and FG'd to the wing after the wing is covered...or you can rig your own mount for electric power.
Balance the plane at 15% and use 1/4" of elevon throw.
I'll dig a plane out of storage to show you what they look like.
Oh yah, I like to use Norvel .061s and 6x3 props for power with a Hayes 2 oz tank. This will give you pretty slow speeds and 15 minute rounds.
These planes were covered with craft store cellophane with 3M77 spray adhesive, then the seams get clear packing tape for extra protection from fuel creepage.
12-20-2011, 03:09 PM
#97
RE: Is combat dead?
The SPAD Mini Pizza Box flyer looks ok too. As well as the Gnat. The Mini PBF looks a bit easier to make, might be hard to find the Canadian gutter pipe though. Even here. I have never flown either one though. The Super Slow Combat planes seem a bit refined for crashing all the time, but a few hours on the foam cutter could make a bunch of planes in a hurry. The coro seems better to me. An AP .15 or ASP .12 or .15 is a good candidate for these planes and they are super cheap and work pretty good. I am not sure about idling but the match is over and you cut the motor anyway. It might stir up some competition especially if you bring a few planes to lend out to get people addicted. Heck, the FAI combat guys bring 10 planes for an afternoon of fun.
12-20-2011, 03:28 PM
#98
RE: Is combat dead?
If you fly over tall grass [hay field] the 14 oz planes never reach the ground all day. The only serious damage is when you mid air...but the repairs are usually routine carpentry with CA glue and packing tape.
I bring a can of acetone or MEK and rags to help with repairs, but we've had many days where only 1 plane or even none ever get hurt.
The action is slow enough and we fly close enough in to be able to avoid mid airs most of the time. If I have a possible scoring shot at another plane, but reckon that it's a risky move, I'll abort it, take a sip of beer and try to get lined up better on the next go'round. The action is slow enough and lasts so long, we sit in lawn chairs after the planes are launched.
Real tight looping pursuit almost never results in anything more than prop cuts and planes slapping each other since they are going the same direction and at the same speed side by side.
Those are my favorite moments...it looks really cool, almost like a twin engine biplane when they get lined up just like so.
Here;s a photo of our ".15 diesel class".
The planes are retired control line combat planes that are outfitted with elevons and fins.
The engine is moved further forward to balance out the bulk of the RC conversion.
48 inch span, about 500 sq inches...these planes are excruciatingly slow with their floppy nylon 8x6 props doing about 11,000 rpm. The are comical with the diesel engines popping and burping, just enough power to maneuver at will...but just barely enough. They will show signs of overheating if you do too much manuevering...so then you have to level off a little and just try to out run the other guy for awhile. These planes get retired when they get too funky to look at and there are occassional repairs with Gorilla Glue.
I bring a can of acetone or MEK and rags to help with repairs, but we've had many days where only 1 plane or even none ever get hurt.
The action is slow enough and we fly close enough in to be able to avoid mid airs most of the time. If I have a possible scoring shot at another plane, but reckon that it's a risky move, I'll abort it, take a sip of beer and try to get lined up better on the next go'round. The action is slow enough and lasts so long, we sit in lawn chairs after the planes are launched.
Real tight looping pursuit almost never results in anything more than prop cuts and planes slapping each other since they are going the same direction and at the same speed side by side.
Those are my favorite moments...it looks really cool, almost like a twin engine biplane when they get lined up just like so.
Here;s a photo of our ".15 diesel class".
The planes are retired control line combat planes that are outfitted with elevons and fins.
The engine is moved further forward to balance out the bulk of the RC conversion.
48 inch span, about 500 sq inches...these planes are excruciatingly slow with their floppy nylon 8x6 props doing about 11,000 rpm. The are comical with the diesel engines popping and burping, just enough power to maneuver at will...but just barely enough. They will show signs of overheating if you do too much manuevering...so then you have to level off a little and just try to out run the other guy for awhile. These planes get retired when they get too funky to look at and there are occassional repairs with Gorilla Glue.
12-20-2011, 04:04 PM
#99
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RE: Is combat dead?
Hey Clean:
How's about you and some of the KC boys putting on a couple of SSC events this year? I'm sure the Wichita boys would come as well as OzMo. I'm sure that a couple of us Texas boys would drive up your way, especially if it were a 2-event contest SSC & Open B. Just don't schedule them the same time as the KCRC pylon events.
How's about you and some of the KC boys putting on a couple of SSC events this year? I'm sure the Wichita boys would come as well as OzMo. I'm sure that a couple of us Texas boys would drive up your way, especially if it were a 2-event contest SSC & Open B. Just don't schedule them the same time as the KCRC pylon events.
12-20-2011, 06:02 PM
#100
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RE: Is combat dead?
Hi.....
I wonder if one of the problems is that their are too many "classes" of combat planes here at our club we have only two major rules
with planes no engines bigger than 0.47ci and no more than 450 watts of electric power this maximizes the number of pilots that can
show up and fly. If you want to bring a scale combat plane fine but you have to fly with the SPADS and gremlins.
Some pilots come with their sport planes kind of hoping that they won't survive to clean out their hangars.
We have found that the .25 size planes are very competitive with the .46's.
Just my thoughts
Darrell
I wonder if one of the problems is that their are too many "classes" of combat planes here at our club we have only two major rules
with planes no engines bigger than 0.47ci and no more than 450 watts of electric power this maximizes the number of pilots that can
show up and fly. If you want to bring a scale combat plane fine but you have to fly with the SPADS and gremlins.
Some pilots come with their sport planes kind of hoping that they won't survive to clean out their hangars.
We have found that the .25 size planes are very competitive with the .46's.
Just my thoughts
Darrell