Hello,
I am not a flyer at all so please excuse my ignorance. I have a military background and I race 1:8th scale off road buggies. A mate of mine recently get himself a plane which looks like good fun so I figure I would have a look at flying planes, then came across the combat part, and, here I am.
The best I can figure is there are only two types of combat.
1. the ribbon, break your enemy ribbon and you win.
2. Smash the be-jesus out of each other physically and the better built plane wins.

Is this correct? I am sorry if I am asking this in the wrong place on your forums. Has anybody tried anything different?

Thanks for your help!

Motorized combat uses streamers that you try to cut, mid-airs are accidental.

Full Contact generally is reserved to Slope combat where the planes are made out of EPP foam and there is no hard metal or wood for the first 1.5 inches. This makes midairs just bumps that you try to knock the other guy outta the air with. After which the pilot usually can just recover and relaunch.

Due to the high number of un-intentional midairs in motorized combat, they tend to build their aircraft as tough as possible. Headon collisions are still usually fatal but side swipes are livable. Some folks do try the full contact combat but you have to worry about having a fuselage taking off with the engine running full power and out of control towards somebody, not a good situation and hard to explain to someone that you actually MEANT to do that.

Some electric powered aircraft use ultasonic sound (I believe) to shoot at each other.

Barry

home.hawaii.rr.com/.../ 3flyinghtml.htm

Streamers - Have a look at the above link.

I have flown most forms of RC competition and 1/12 scale combat still gets me going. Great fun.

Fast is good but faster is always better in combat.

Thanks heaps for the info. Do you think there would be much of a calling for shooting each other down with ammunition that would cause no damage at all? I am playing with some ideas thats all. What about bombing? If you could make your target a land based one and be able to "shoot" it, would this be appealing?

You might consider some sort of low powered laser pointer and sensor, IE: laser tag.
But firing projectiles ?? Think about it, one out of control plane , on stuck firing button
the chances of bodily injury are too numerous

anyone eles try out the tufflight panthers with os l.a 40s my club has about 20 of them up and running ! this plane is one of the tuffist combat planes i have put to gether other the getting hit with a prop witch cuts it mid airs dont seem to faze it unless you stop the prop then your on way to ground . i have landed my panther full tilt to the ground nose first about 50 time i just stik new prop on and go at it again very stable and just great all around fun plane combatting or not try one you will not be disapointed you can find them at www.tufflight.com i dont have anything to do with the company put you have to injoy a plane you can drill in to the ground just for fun !

Ok, I know it is bad, but we "brother of the foamie" out here in Iowa are actually trying to organize an air battle, but FULL CONTACT, and with Foamie style planes. You can modify your plane anyway you want, metal prop, whatever.

10 minute rounds, TKO is in affect as you can try to land on the landing site to make repairs, but open to attack when trying. Only rule, can't attact another pilot or touch them in any way. The Combat is in the air, and only the air. Last plane flying, or last to hit the ground wins.

Metal props are bad news. When one parts company with the hub with the engine/motor running, you're going to get a bullet. And it's not "IF" it's "WHEN". Metal props are get metal fatige eventually, and fail. That's why the AMA outlaws metal props.

Official
Academy of Model Aeronautics
National Model Aircraft Safety Code
Effective January 1, 2006
GENERAL

3. I will abide by this Safety Code and all rules established for the flying site I use. I will not willfully fly my model aircraft in a reckless and/or dangerous manner.

7. I will not operate model aircraft with metal-blade propellers or with gaseous boosts (other than air), nor will I operate model aircraft with fuels containing tetranitromethane or hydrazine.

8. I will not operate model aircraft carrying pyrotechnic devices which explode burn, or propel a projectile of any kind.
Exceptions include Free Flight fuses or devices that burn producing smoke and are securely attached to the model aircraft during flight. Rocket
motors up to a G-series size may be used, provided they remain firmly attached to the model aircraft during flight. Model rockets may be flown in
accordance with the National Model Rocketry Safety Code; however, they may not be launched from model aircraft. Officially designated AMAAir
Show Teams (AST) are authorized to use devices and practices as defined within the Air Show Advisory Committee Document.

If you want full contact combat you want to look at these tough airplanes. These are the toughest combat airplanes IMO. http://www.kombat40.com/

Well, it's in an extremely open area, and the metal props where just an example, though bad, and it isn't an AIR SHOW or AIRPORT area, so I don't see the model flying code of no fun applying here.

Thanks for the combat link, but just breezing through it, it looked like gas engines, we're doing electric, but I could have been wrong.

It's just that for quite some time a group of folks has been working with the AMA who would really LOVE for combat to go away so they can focus on 1/4 scale or bigger airplanes so we work on hows and whys and whatnottodo's. They were perfectly happy with the idea of NO combat, but now the rules say that after ANY midair is land and check the aircraft out. This goes for taps, grazes and any other thing where the pilot knows there is no problem with the airplane, they tap all the time during a combat round with no damage. Then there is the setback from the combat flight line which makes C class combat almost impossible at any field. The AMA is still worried about combat because sooner or later they know some idiot will say 'lets go all out and purposefully try to knock each others guided missles out of control'.

Now you mention that you are not using an AMA field and you're out in the boonies and anything goes. That's all fine for you, but when the AMA bans combat of any form that means I can't do it at my field do to your actions out in the boonies. Thanks alot, good for you, glad I'm the big bad adult type person that you'll be making fun of. Oh, the thread also usually gets around to shooting missles and guns off your combat plane as if you'd ever hit anything you'd shoot at from an airplane traviling 60+ 150 feet away in a constant furball. After that pilot shoots someone a mile away and kills em, I guess they can always plead IGNORANCE.

Anyways, the AMA watches all these things on the net, realizes the mentality of the modern american male and knows they have to shut it down or pay out bigtime. And if they spend all that money on a wrongfull death lawsuit from 'Combat' how they gonna pay for someones house a 1/3 scale jet burns through 3 stories of someones house and burns that bad boy down?

This is why I'm touchy on the subject.

Now, if you want full contact combat, check out slope soaring combat. That lasts for as long as your receiver batteries and the wind, the plane IS to knock the other guy out of the air and your legs will never be healthier after running up and down the slope for more fun. Check out the Midwest Slope Challenge page under the events to get some rules and you will have safe, fun, full contact combat. If you're going to do electric Zagis, make sure your battery pack is firmly attached. Those things get lost in the high grass much too easily when they eject after a midair.

Fwiw, I agree with Clean. I've met him, and he really is a great guy, not some blowhard safety nazi. I share his concerns though I usually express it in a more low-key way. However, he is basically correct that combat is a new sport in the eyes of the AMA powers-that-be, and there are plenty of people in the AMA who would prefer we just go away.

Safety is important. Whatever you do, think it out before hand. Think out how hard it would be for someone to get hit with a model in a given situation. Think out "what happens if...." issues. Don't just ignore them.

I'm not saying eithe of you are bad people, at least I hope it didn't come acrossed that way, and I see all your points, but it's not as disorganized as you might think, out in the "sticks", just some guys having fun with foamies where no one can even see, so we don't have to worry about AMA and people getting jipped. I guess I"m just a black sheep.

In a thread about " Lets See Your Flying Field" you describe your flying site as a church parking lot, people and the pastor coming out to watch and at least one collision with the church that dislodged a sizable piece of grout. Not exactly the "sticks" and your safety record and level of responsibility (not owning up to the damage to the church) seem to paint a different picture.

Just my .02 dollars worth.

Mr. Clean,
Don't take this the wrong way. You sound like you know what you are talking about and I'm not replying with a negative response, but..............
1/4 scale............1/3 scale, jets, guided missiles, guns, burning houses? Shooting someone a mile away and killing them?
Holy cow. I would argue against having combat with those birds too.
We are talking about 20 to 30 ounce electric foamies here and there isn't a house within 1/2 mile of where we fly. I was actually hit in the chest by one of these electrics and I hardly even felt it. I know, I know, those props can be dangerous, even on an electric motor no bigger than a walnut. I'm sure I was lucky.
Don't get the wrong idea. Contrary to popular belief, we are not stupid hicks out here in the country, and consider safety in any and all decisions.
I understand your concerns and those of the AMA, but I don't see how what we do 'out in the boonies' with our light weight electric foamies, (no guns, missles, or nuclear warheads) will effect what you guys do with your glow, gas, and jet engine monsters. I'm not arguing against safety, but in my opinion, full contact combat with these foamies is still considerably more safe than just flying overhead with a 1/3 scale jet.

P.S. If you tie a streamer to your battery, it's easy to see it going down and easy to find it after that unintentional separation.
Happy Landings

Hey BazookaOZ,

I too would like to adapt my plane for live ammunition fire.
And I could go to the county jail and sign out a couple of
prisoners for moving targets. I think our club would enjoy
that for our monthly event.

What do you think.

88

Kraus

Fwiw, full contact foamie combat, even with planes besides zagi-types, can be, and has been done safely, I don't think that's the issue. In fact, I think there was a write-up in the AMA magazine about a "last man standing" type of bout during one of the big indoor events. The winner was one of those flat-foamie bipes. So, done right, no one thinks it's not fine.

But the origional post didn't mention the size of the planes. It didn't mention electric vs fuel powered. It didn't mention much at all besides intentionally crashing planes in to each other. And some of the follow up posts from the origional poster almost implied that doing things like buzzing pilots or other people was somehow ok or part of the game.

The key thing, if you want to do "last man standing"-type stuff is to make sure of a few basic safety rules/guidlines/whatever-you-want-to-call-it

Create "setback" or pilot protection such that a disabled and crashing plane is highly unlikly to hit anyone. All you really need is two lines on the ground. One that is "no person beyond this point while combat is in progress" and the other is "no plane closer than this point while combat is in progress". Place the lines a good distance apart, and you're good there. ("good distance" is going to be a judgement call. For small foamies, ~50feet might be enough, might even be a bit more than enough).

Agree on a weight / power / airspeed limit of some sort. You don't want someone flying an 6lb (roughly .40 size) electric fun fly against small foamies, etc. Since you're just messing around with friends, this could be as simple as a verbal agreement about what planes you're flying.

Make sure spectators / buildings / cars / anything-you-might-damage isn't any closer than the pilots to the planes. (see the setback above). It's bad if you hit each other, it's a lot worse if you hit someone else or someone else's stuff.

You get the idea. Just remember that full contact combat does bring with it some extra risk, and that screwing up can cost you and others.

For example, a site that is safe to fly in might not be safe to combat in. And if you fly combat there anyway, and something goes wrong, you might find yourself not allowed to fly there anymore. Certainly, a land owner or local government isn't going to listen to "we promise to not fly combat here anymore, but can we still fly around?"

(I saw local government because in some areas, some towns/cities have already passed laws the prohibit flying RC planes in their parks, and I've heard of at least one town outlawing RC boats as well. It might not happen to you. But it might).

Ok, this one has gone far enough.